New Ticket Policy Changes Simplified

pjl44 · February 2018

given2fly23 said:

PJNB said:

Scalpers can now make hundreds of accounts just to do this making the odds even harder for us fans. It is a broke system already imo and really only benefits the scalpers.
Completely agree and this is always my concern. It was hard enough to get tickets before, and now this. At least with the GA tickets, I wish they would get more strict, not less. In-person pickup at least limited the global scalper. Been saying for years that they should've made 10C tickets credit card entry only and I would get the automatic "I want to collect hard tickets" response, which was not the point. Now we don't have hard tickets AND the buyer doesnt have to show up.

How big of an issue has scalping really been though? You rarely/never seen Ten Club seats on legit sites, so anyone using sketchier channels can now only scalp one instead of two. Plus the added risk of question marks on the distribution.

Just seeing conversations on here, it seems multiple accounts might be the bigger issue. Create multiple accounts to increase your GA odds, knowing you can just sell off extras to friends, etc. That would be tougher now that the primary account holder has to enter the show themselves.

Fascinating to think about what sort of data the Ten Club has that informs their decisions. As someone who just enters once for each show I plan to attend, this system gives me a little more confidence that I'll get drawn.

PJNB · February 2018

pjl44 said:

given2fly23 said:

PJNB said:

Scalpers can now make hundreds of accounts just to do this making the odds even harder for us fans. It is a broke system already imo and really only benefits the scalpers.
Completely agree and this is always my concern. It was hard enough to get tickets before, and now this. At least with the GA tickets, I wish they would get more strict, not less. In-person pickup at least limited the global scalper. Been saying for years that they should've made 10C tickets credit card entry only and I would get the automatic "I want to collect hard tickets" response, which was not the point. Now we don't have hard tickets AND the buyer doesnt have to show up.

How big of an issue has scalping really been though? You rarely/never seen Ten Club seats on legit sites, so anyone using sketchier channels can now only scalp one instead of two. Plus the added risk of question marks on the distribution.

Just seeing conversations on here, it seems multiple accounts might be the bigger issue. Create multiple accounts to increase your GA odds, knowing you can just sell off extras to friends, etc. That would be tougher now that the primary account holder has to enter the show themselves.

Fascinating to think about what sort of data the Ten Club has that informs their decisions. As someone who just enters once for each show I plan to attend, this system gives me a little more confidence that I'll get drawn.

In the past scalping 10 clubs tickets was almost non existent. When I did see it happen in 2016 on Facebook the person was completely shutdown and reported on to 10 club.

What we are talking about is the new system and how easily it can be abused without even showing up. This introduces a whole lot of potential of new scalpers coming in and going for GA just to sell their plus 1's. They do not even have to meet in person. Just transfer the ticket over and it is done. You can like the fact that they are tying one ticket to the original buyer but a bunch of newer and easier problems are going to pop up and make things a whole lot worse then Johnny and Sally both putting in for a show they want to go to.

pjl44 · February 2018

PJNB said:

pjl44 said:

given2fly23 said:

PJNB said:

Scalpers can now make hundreds of accounts just to do this making the odds even harder for us fans. It is a broke system already imo and really only benefits the scalpers.
Completely agree and this is always my concern. It was hard enough to get tickets before, and now this. At least with the GA tickets, I wish they would get more strict, not less. In-person pickup at least limited the global scalper. Been saying for years that they should've made 10C tickets credit card entry only and I would get the automatic "I want to collect hard tickets" response, which was not the point. Now we don't have hard tickets AND the buyer doesnt have to show up.

How big of an issue has scalping really been though? You rarely/never seen Ten Club seats on legit sites, so anyone using sketchier channels can now only scalp one instead of two. Plus the added risk of question marks on the distribution.

Just seeing conversations on here, it seems multiple accounts might be the bigger issue. Create multiple accounts to increase your GA odds, knowing you can just sell off extras to friends, etc. That would be tougher now that the primary account holder has to enter the show themselves.

Fascinating to think about what sort of data the Ten Club has that informs their decisions. As someone who just enters once for each show I plan to attend, this system gives me a little more confidence that I'll get drawn.

In the past scalping 10 clubs tickets was almost non existent. When I did see it happen in 2016 on Facebook the person was completely shutdown and reported on to 10 club.

What we are talking about is the new system and how easily it can be abused without even showing up. This introduces a whole lot of potential of new scalpers coming in and going for GA just to sell their plus 1's. They do not even have to meet in person. Just transfer the ticket over and it is done. You can like the fact that they are tying one ticket to the original buyer but a bunch of newer and easier problems are going to pop up and make things a whole lot worse then Johnny and Sally both putting in for a show they want to go to.

Couldn't disagree more. Where are these global scalpers going to sell? To me, that's always limited scalping more than will call hard tickets. It's not like there's any shortage of local touts/agencies in big cities who could have been doing this all along with hard tickets were it not for Ten Club enforcement.

Vedd Hedd · February 2018

Just some clarification questions ....

1. The $1 charge is charged immediately when you post your picks?
2. It does not matter which day you enter the drawing. It could be anytime between feb 7th and the end, correct? No preference given for being "first to register".
3. If you win, cards are charged on the 12th?

JimmyV · February 2018

Vedd Hedd said:

Just some clarification questions ....

1. The $1 charge is charged immediately when you post your picks?
2. It does not matter which day you enter the drawing. It could be anytime between feb 7th and the end, correct? No preference given for being "first to register".
3. If you win, cards are charged on the 12th?

I believe all of this is correct.

PJNB · February 2018

Vedd Hedd said:

Just some clarification questions ....

1. The $1 charge is charged immediately when you post your picks?
2. It does not matter which day you enter the drawing. It could be anytime between feb 7th and the end, correct? No preference given for being "first to register".
3. If you win, cards are charged on the 12th?

Correct though there is a running theory that people that put in first find out first but I have seen it go both ways with that one.

PJNB · February 2018

pjl44 said:

PJNB said:

pjl44 said:

given2fly23 said:

PJNB said:

Scalpers can now make hundreds of accounts just to do this making the odds even harder for us fans. It is a broke system already imo and really only benefits the scalpers.
Completely agree and this is always my concern. It was hard enough to get tickets before, and now this. At least with the GA tickets, I wish they would get more strict, not less. In-person pickup at least limited the global scalper. Been saying for years that they should've made 10C tickets credit card entry only and I would get the automatic "I want to collect hard tickets" response, which was not the point. Now we don't have hard tickets AND the buyer doesnt have to show up.

How big of an issue has scalping really been though? You rarely/never seen Ten Club seats on legit sites, so anyone using sketchier channels can now only scalp one instead of two. Plus the added risk of question marks on the distribution.

Just seeing conversations on here, it seems multiple accounts might be the bigger issue. Create multiple accounts to increase your GA odds, knowing you can just sell off extras to friends, etc. That would be tougher now that the primary account holder has to enter the show themselves.

Fascinating to think about what sort of data the Ten Club has that informs their decisions. As someone who just enters once for each show I plan to attend, this system gives me a little more confidence that I'll get drawn.

In the past scalping 10 clubs tickets was almost non existent. When I did see it happen in 2016 on Facebook the person was completely shutdown and reported on to 10 club.

What we are talking about is the new system and how easily it can be abused without even showing up. This introduces a whole lot of potential of new scalpers coming in and going for GA just to sell their plus 1's. They do not even have to meet in person. Just transfer the ticket over and it is done. You can like the fact that they are tying one ticket to the original buyer but a bunch of newer and easier problems are going to pop up and make things a whole lot worse then Johnny and Sally both putting in for a show they want to go to.

Couldn't disagree more. Where are these global scalpers going to sell? To me, that's always limited scalping more than will call hard tickets. It's not like there's any shortage of local touts/agencies in big cities who could have been doing this all along with hard tickets were it not for Ten Club enforcement.

Time will tell and I hope you are right but you can not deny that it is easier now with out having to be at the venue. I just hope it works as intended and people do not eat their extra tickets they won if they do not need them since they upgraded their seats.

Jvfireman416 · February 2018

PJNB said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Jvfireman416 said:

jeffbr said:

jmug23 said:

jeffbr said:

jmug23 said:

jeffbr said:

jmug23 said:

PJNB said:

I just would like to ask those that think double membership in one household is unfair, who do you go to the show with? Have you never had a ticket buddy before or do you go solo to every show? Just because I live with somebody who is just as big of a fan as I am why does that mean we should only use one account?

I 100% don’t think that’s unfair. If you both pay your dues, which obviously you do, then you both have the right to put in for the lottery. I assume if you win twice, then you obviously give your tickets to other Pj fans. I guess I’m not understanding the argument against it. Now obviously if you were trying to sell second pair for profit that would be wrong. I do think it’s cool when people who have won more than they need offer it to other fan club members who missed out first, but even that isn’t a perfect system because some of those same people who say they missed out, won 5 other shows.

Here's the issue - If you are putting in for 4 tickets, and only intending to use 2 of them, by definition you are attempting to buy tickets you don't intend to use. Doing so ensures that someone else putting in for 2 tickets they will actually use will be shut out of getting them. It isn't "wrong" as in "against the rules" and is perfectly within your rights as you say, but it is "wrong" as in "you're fucking over your fellow fanclub member". That is why the "unfair" label gets used. You are gaming the system at the expense of another member.

Hopefully this new policy significantly cuts down that behavior.

I don’t agree. They are putting in two entries because there is obviously no guarantee they are going to win the first entry. Now if tickets were guaranteed and they still put in multiple entries just to try and resale or trade or whatever, then that’s a problem. If there was somehow a way to guarantee all fan club members one set of tickets per show, then this wouldn’t Be an issue. The reality is however, that many people put in for tickets for multiple shows and inevitably, some people will miss out on tickets. The good news is, most people seem to be very good people and usually just pass along their extras to fellow fan club members.

I guess we'll just disagree then. I think when a couple puts in for 4 tickets, only needing 2 of them, they've doubled their odds without assuming additional risk. If they did away with the ability to transfer tickets, I would have fewer issues with this. You could go for 4 tickets, win 4, and have to eat 2. Assuming the additional risk would be the price for doubling your odds. But the way it was, there was no risk (hell, it was easy to transfer a pair to other 10c members as long as you were there to pick them up). This new policy adds a bit of complexity to the ticket transfer situation, so there is potential that this sort of scheme is slowed down a bit. I like it.

Yeah you got a good point there and that makes a lot of sense. You are probably right that new system should definitely slow down most of that. I guess I’ve always been fortunate and always have gotten the shows I have wanted so never really thouht about it from the other point of view. I don’t have two memberships by the way:)

Yeah, I have no problem with multiple memberships in a household, I just don't see how people should be allowed to put in for more tickets than they intend to use without some additional cost or consequence. And I understand why people do it. Everyone wants to get tickets and will do anything they can to increase their odds. I signed up for the Verified Fan thing as a way to increase my odds of securing a ticket if I don't get drawn in the lottery. So we do what we do. I just think this new policy controls the crazy flipping/transfer madness that is pervasive here during tour time. People can still have ticket buddies (you put in for show A, I'll put in for show , but it eliminates a massive number of "I've got an extra pair for the show" posts.

If I believed that everyone sells their "extra tickets at costs to other fan members" I might not have as much ass ache with the fact that I have been shut out of 80% of the ticket lotteries and had to try to score a terrible seat on ticket master or pay astronomical prices on stub hub. Unfortunately I don't believe it. Maybe some people are willing to sell that extra 6th row seat for cost but I know that some also fund a lot of their travel by selling at double, triple, or five times+ value. This will stop a lot of that. If you aren't that guy its nice that you at least didn't try to totally hose the ones of us that don't do it. If you are? Na Na Na Na Na Na.

As long as the same fans repeatedly get the best seats for way below market value, they will be able to profit. At least the new system tries to force fans to eat 50% of their excess supply, but many many fans are still commenting about putting in for extras. This could lead to even higher prices on resale markets.

You guys act like there was a huge problem with 10 club tickets being sold for higher then face value. There was not. When was the last time you saw a GA ticket for sale on a secondary market site? Does it happen yes but how often? Not very often and 10 club usually gets it shutdown before a sale happens. Also the person had to go to the venue and pick the tickets up limiting scalpers to the town they live by. Now the way they have it set up is you can buy a GA pair for lets say Seattle. I could live in Europe and put in for the show with no intention of going. I could win the pair and now just sell my extra for a ridiculous amount of money and eat the cost of the other ticket since I just made so much off of that single ticket. Scalpers can now make hundreds of accounts just to do this making the odds even harder for us fans. It is a broke system already imo and really only benefits the scalpers.

Except for that pesky rule that you have to be a member before the sale is announced. Professional Scalpers are not paying membership fees year after year for the chance at premium PJ seats in a year or two. Any issues is people internal. If people didn't take 4, 5, 6 sets of tickets a piece everyone could benefit. Its called greed and being out for yourself. At least own it

PJNB · February 2018

Ya that 20$ a year is going to really scare people off when secondary market ticket sales are 300% or more above face and now they do not need to even show up the city. Also who is getting 4-6 sets of tickets for themselves? Where are you getting that number and why are you quoting me and saying at least own it?

Jvfireman416 · February 2018

PJNB said:

Ya that 20$ a year is going to really scare people off when secondary market ticket sales are 300% or more above face and now they do not need to even show up the city. Also who is getting 4-6 sets of tickets for themselves? Where are you getting that number and why are you quoting me and saying at least own it?

Was following the entire chain and yes read back, many people use many accounts to get tickets that they don't intend to use themselves. The own it was referring to nobody in particular but to those that do but hide in anonymity,

Sarava · February 2018

I never understood how people said some had like 10 accounts. I mean, your drivers license only shows one name. How can you pick up tickets in 5 different account names? And I don't even want to know that answer actually. I think I'm just naive and haven't ever looked at it as a system to try and exploit.

jdopj · February 2018

Honestly all this started with the introduction of GA. At least 1/3 of the memberships are because of the opportunity for GA. If your secondary 600xxx number got you rafters or if you knew what that number would get, you may not join or try for tickets. You would roll the dice with Ticketmaster or somewhere else. GA opportunities have turned all of this around.

MayDay10 · February 2018

Sprunkn7 said:

As a 10 Club member for a long time and a member that has LOST way more lottery entries than I want to even count I have to put in my opinion of the "selling of your second ticket" complaint. There have been MANY AMAZING fan club members who have helped me get a ticket or a pair when I had none. I have NEVER been asked more than face. I consider myself an "UNCONNECTED" fan. As in I don't have a posse of PJ 10 Club members that are collecting tickets so they can sell them. If it happens I'm not aware of it. We help each other out and there is nothing wrong with that! My partner and I have have 2 accounts because we have gotten our faces ripped off so many times, in reality it was the only way we ever could get tickets before the lottery.
I think the club is doing everything to stay updated and to try and help their fanbase. Sure there maybe a few rotten apples in the barrel but most of us are good people just wanting to see our favorite band. I'm excited to see how this new system plays out. I've been waiting for a better chance at getting a few shows via the 10 club and they way they word it I hope it's true!

People looking to connect with 1 fan to share their pair with will not go away. That is fine, and always has been.

The issue was the large and increasing number of people looking to trade pairs only for pairs for other shows. People who gamed multiple accounts (and I suspect in some cases 'several' accounts spread over a few people), were able to basically chain their way through a leg of a tour primarily in GA or premium 10c number seats. That behavior undermined the spirit of a lottery.

Sarava · February 2018

Well, as the system is for seating priority, Im glad they have the GA option. Otherwise anyone who has joined 10club in the last 10 years would basically never get a good ticket ever again.

MayDay10 · February 2018

Sarava said:

Well, as the system is for seating priority, Im glad they have the GA option. Otherwise anyone who has joined 10club in the last 10 years would basically never get a good ticket ever again.

My suggestion has been to make all tickets 1 pool, while allow people to specify "reserved only" when entering the lottery.

They can have the selection of who gets in for the show.... then a second one for GA within that pool.

jdopj · February 2018

Sarava said:

Well, as the system is for seating priority, Im glad they have the GA option. Otherwise anyone who has joined 10club in the last 10 years would basically never get a good ticket ever again.

Which is way they did it.
However it is what has led things to where we are. It just opened up Pandora’s box a bit

Vedd Hedd · February 2018

thanks for the clarifications!

BCBA · February 2018

I have said it before, but in-line in Denver a group of people were openly discussing this way of playing the ticket lottery and giving advice to others. It bothered me but I didn't say anything because I felt outnumbered. A couple of guys claimed to have been in general admission to every show to that point on that tour.