Seattle Homelessness

riley540 · January 2018

The band has announced they are donating money to help the Seattle homeless issue.

I live near near Seattle and I can see this issue first hand and it is pretty bad. There is a full tent city under the I5 just south of seattle.

I feel like positive solutions are hard to reach. I’m curious to know what everyone thinks is a good step forward in the fight to end homelessness?

I personally think we need to work on the drug problem. Both prescription and street drugs are ruining lives and making people unable to work. Drugs ruin lives and hurt families.

I also think shelters are very usefull, but I feel like building them in the middle of the most expensive city in the area doesn’t do much, because the homeless people cannot afford anything. I think building a safe homeless community outside of town in an area where work is more accessible would be a great step forward.

Just a few on my thoughts! What do you think?

brianlux · January 2018

I agree that drugs can ruin lives and I think one of the solutions is NOT incarceration. Instead, we should focus on providing counseling, treatment and rehab centers. If all the money spent on incarcerating people for drugs were put toward rehab and counseling, we would have far fewer addicts and less crime. That's pretty much a fact.

However, is the homeless situation is not just a drug situation? I don't think so. It's also very much a mental health situation. After all these years, how many Vietnam vets are still fucked up in the head and homeless? A lot. Those guys should/should have (and I don't like the word "should" but here it fits) gotten more of the kind of help they needed. That's a shameful mar on this country.

So yes, more homeless shelter but why "outside town"? I've talked to people who believe that is best and I highly suspect they say that because they don't want to see the reality. It's called "NIMBY". Some of these people (not saying you, Riley) think we should put them all on an island or fence off Nevada and stick them there or better yet,ship them off to Mars. And is work really more accessible outside town? It's not. Town is where jobs are. Town is where transportation is.

I think the first step is to look at the problem realistically and not shove these people down a hole (again, not saying you are implying this, Riley).

riley540 · January 2018

brianlux said:

I agree that drugs can ruin lives and I think one of the solutions is NOT incarceration. Instead, we should focus on providing counseling, treatment and rehab centers. If all the money spent on incarcerating people for drugs were put toward rehab and counseling, we would have far fewer addicts and less crime. That's pretty much a fact.

However, is the homeless situation is not just a drug situation? I don't think so. It's also very much a mental health situation. After all these years, how many Vietnam vets are still fucked up in the head and homeless? A lot. Those guys should/should have (and I don't like the word "should" but here it fits) gotten more of the kind of help they needed. That's a shameful mar on this country.

So yes, more homeless shelter but why "outside town"? I've talked to people who believe that is best and I highly suspect they say that because they don't want to see the reality. It's called "NIMBY". Some of these people (not saying you, Riley) think we should put them all on an island or fence off Nevada and stick them there or better yet,ship them off to Mars. And is work really more accessible outside town? It's not. Town is where jobs are. Town is where transportation is.

I think the first step is to look at the problem realistically and not shove these people down a hole (again, not saying you are implying this, Riley).

I just know as a low income person myself, a big city provides almost zero opportunity for me. Living in a small town it is easier to make connections and my dollar goes a lot further. In Bellingham I was able to purchase a condo this year, where in Seattle it would be impossible. Which is why i reccomeneded outside of the large city. No negative thought behind it :-)

brianlux · January 2018

riley540 said:

brianlux said:

I agree that drugs can ruin lives and I think one of the solutions is NOT incarceration. Instead, we should focus on providing counseling, treatment and rehab centers. If all the money spent on incarcerating people for drugs were put toward rehab and counseling, we would have far fewer addicts and less crime. That's pretty much a fact.

However, is the homeless situation is not just a drug situation? I don't think so. It's also very much a mental health situation. After all these years, how many Vietnam vets are still fucked up in the head and homeless? A lot. Those guys should/should have (and I don't like the word "should" but here it fits) gotten more of the kind of help they needed. That's a shameful mar on this country.

So yes, more homeless shelter but why "outside town"? I've talked to people who believe that is best and I highly suspect they say that because they don't want to see the reality. It's called "NIMBY". Some of these people (not saying you, Riley) think we should put them all on an island or fence off Nevada and stick them there or better yet,ship them off to Mars. And is work really more accessible outside town? It's not. Town is where jobs are. Town is where transportation is.

I think the first step is to look at the problem realistically and not shove these people down a hole (again, not saying you are implying this, Riley).

I just know as a low income person myself, a big city provides almost zero opportunity for me. Living in a small town it is easier to make connections and my dollar goes a lot further. In Bellingham I was able to purchase a condo this year, where in Seattle it would be impossible. Which is why i reccomeneded outside of the large city. No negative thought behind it :-)

Oh man, to me Bellingham is a big city!

Bellingham, WA population: 87, 547 (2016)
Placerville, CA (nearest city to my home) population: 10, 681 (2016)

But see what you're saying. Seattle really is a tough town in ways. Reminds me one of Sherman Alexie's books, one in which he portrays well the difficult, gritty side of Seattle. I can't remember which book. One of the characters is a woman who drives a sandwich truck to feed the homeless. A heart breaking story.

riley540 · January 2018

brianlux said:

riley540 said:

brianlux said:

I agree that drugs can ruin lives and I think one of the solutions is NOT incarceration. Instead, we should focus on providing counseling, treatment and rehab centers. If all the money spent on incarcerating people for drugs were put toward rehab and counseling, we would have far fewer addicts and less crime. That's pretty much a fact.

However, is the homeless situation is not just a drug situation? I don't think so. It's also very much a mental health situation. After all these years, how many Vietnam vets are still fucked up in the head and homeless? A lot. Those guys should/should have (and I don't like the word "should" but here it fits) gotten more of the kind of help they needed. That's a shameful mar on this country.

So yes, more homeless shelter but why "outside town"? I've talked to people who believe that is best and I highly suspect they say that because they don't want to see the reality. It's called "NIMBY". Some of these people (not saying you, Riley) think we should put them all on an island or fence off Nevada and stick them there or better yet,ship them off to Mars. And is work really more accessible outside town? It's not. Town is where jobs are. Town is where transportation is.

I think the first step is to look at the problem realistically and not shove these people down a hole (again, not saying you are implying this, Riley).

I just know as a low income person myself, a big city provides almost zero opportunity for me. Living in a small town it is easier to make connections and my dollar goes a lot further. In Bellingham I was able to purchase a condo this year, where in Seattle it would be impossible. Which is why i reccomeneded outside of the large city. No negative thought behind it :-)

Oh man, to me Bellingham is a big city!

Bellingham, WA population: 87, 547 (2016)
Placerville, CA (nearest city to my home) population: 10, 681 (2016)

But see what you're saying. Seattle really is a tough town in ways. Reminds me one of Sherman Alexie's books, one in which he portrays well the difficult, gritty side of Seattle. I can't remember which book. One of the characters is a woman who drives a sandwich truck to feed the homeless. A heart breaking story.

I will have to find that book. It has been a while since I have had a good read :-)

and bellingham feels tiny being sandwiched between Vancouver B.C. and Seattle! Ha!

I also grew grew up in Anchorage Alaska which has over 300,000 people. The homeless issue in anchorage is brutal. Heart braking when you are driving in sub zero temps and you see people under bushes trying to stay warm.

Thoughts_Arrive · January 2018

It's bad and getting worse in Melbourne.

Thoughts_Arrive · January 2018

Not always drugs that cause homelessness.
I asked one guy after I gave him money and he said his homelessness was due to a relationship breakdown (which is quite a common reason).
I have seen women on the street due to domestic violence. I have seen guys on the street because their parents kicked them out of home because of their homosexuality.

josevolution · January 2018

You can start here by fixing this huge problem that Republicans fail to see
The 1% grabbed 82% of all wealth created in 2017 - CNN Money https://apple.news/AJRwwjCBQSa6ZP7jfqMvMrw

CM189191 · January 2018

UBI

josevolution · January 2018

Opioid commission member: Our work is a 'sham' - CNN https://apple.news/AQKG69JXRQ-uUS_RI6Dc4mQ
Here you go another reason why there’s so many addicts that can’t get help hence they end up dead or on the streets ! This administration doesn’t care about anything that’s happening to the addicts they only cater to the 1% ...

HesCalledDyer · January 2018

12 billionaires on the Forbes list from Seattle and over 68,000 millionaires in King County.

PJ_Soul · January 2018

I've read from several sources that up to 65% of the homeless are mentally ill to one degree or another. I think the homeless issue and the mental health care issue are very closely intertwined, and we all know that the mental health care system is generally very poor in North America. I don't think you can come close to fixing one without fixing the other. Even if all the billionaires in Seattle gave millions to the cause, the wouldn't do shit for the unmedicated schizophrenic or the bipolar crack addict or the alcoholic with psychosis, or the manic depressive abuse victim, or the vet with PTSD, if there isn't a really good mental health care system in place that can ACTUALLY help them in the ways they need help.

brianlux · January 2018

HesCalledDyer said:

12 billionaires on the Forbes list from Seattle and over 68,000 millionaires in King County.

That's pretty amazing (and awful), and yet as soon as you state such a statistic, someone will say, "Anybody who works at it hard enough can become a millionaire or even a billionaire". I've never known quite how to respond to that except roll my eyes or ask, "Well then why are you [because, see, I've never had a millionaire tell me "anyone can become a millionaire] or I not millionaires?" . That would mean less for them.

brianlux · January 2018

It seems that the City of Seattle is not inclined to want to help its homeless people:
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/jan/24/anti-homeless-architecture-seattle-bike-racks-block-rough-sleepers

New anti-homeless architecture: Seattle uses bike racks to block rough sleepers

Police cleared a homeless camp before the transport department filled the pavement with unneeded bike racks – a clear case of hostile architecture which does not address the problem, say campaigners (More at link.)

The article also illustrates "hostile" anti-homeless architecture in Manchester and London. No doubt it's common in many other cities as well.

Pap · January 2018

Portraits of Homelessness

jeffbr · January 2018

Those Portraits of Homlessness are pretty profound, and beautiful and tragic at the same time. The reality is that Seattle has become a shithole. Under freeways, on sidewalks, in door jambs, in open spaces. Homeless camps are everywhere. Drug infested, crime infested, violence infested, garbage infested, rat infested, disease infested places full of criminals and the mentally ill in addition to those simply down on their luck. The city continues to try to find solutions. The city has spent millions and millions of dollars on this issue, but has not been able to make many dents. Hopefully the new mayor, with a fresh look at the issue, will be able to address the issue. It is creeping out of the city and into the suburbs as well. There are a lot of services available that many do not take advantage of due to rules. No drugs, no pets, no fighting, etc... So many choose to live in those camps even when offered alternatives. I have no problem with the city clearing out homeless camps. It is a public safety issue, both for the homeless themselves (murders, stabbings and shootings aren't uncommon), and for the rest of the citizenry. We can't allow lawlessness to take over the streets of the city, but at the same time we need to be compassionate about how we treat everyone. There is no simple, jingoistic solution to this issue. It is multi-faceted, and very complex. We can't just remove them all and expect them to pick themselves up. We also can't simply ignore the issue and allow the camps to grow and proliferate.

JC29856 · January 2018

josevolution said:

You can start here by fixing this huge problem that Republicans fail to see
The 1% grabbed 82% of all wealth created in 2017 - CNN Money https://apple.news/AJRwwjCBQSa6ZP7jfqMvMrw

I think you will find that the trend you post has been the case since your birth. (it didn't start in January of 2017)

jeffbr · January 2018

JC29856 said:

josevolution said:

You can start here by fixing this huge problem that Republicans fail to see
The 1% grabbed 82% of all wealth created in 2017 - CNN Money https://apple.news/AJRwwjCBQSa6ZP7jfqMvMrw

I think you will find that the trend you post has been the case since your birth. (it didn't start in January of 2017)

That's very true, but with a city like Seattle, this wage disparity has been very profound over the past decade+. Amazon, primarily, and many other tech companies like Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Zillow all have driven up net worth of their workers. Affordable housing used to exist in the city, and no longer does. Median income for married couples in Seattle as of last year was $133,000, 61% higher than the US median for couples. If you are a family of four making less than $72,000 you are considered low income. Median home price in Seattle is just about $800,000. Many people who work in the city can no longer afford to live in the city (or if they do, it is in a homeless encampment). So sure, income disparity really started a few decades ago, but we've seen pretty obvious and rapid separation between the 1% and everyone else since the 80's.

Image: https://www.cbpp.org/sites/default/files/atoms/files/incomegainstop_6-22-16-eh-rc-eb-2_450.png

josevolution · January 2018

JC29856 said:

josevolution said:

You can start here by fixing this huge problem that Republicans fail to see
The 1% grabbed 82% of all wealth created in 2017 - CNN Money https://apple.news/AJRwwjCBQSa6ZP7jfqMvMrw

I think you will find that the trend you post has been the case since your birth. (it didn't start in January of 2017)

Yes i know it's the truth by the way 1960 is my yr what yr is yours young one ?

JC29856 · January 2018

jeffbr said:

JC29856 said:

josevolution said:

You can start here by fixing this huge problem that Republicans fail to see
The 1% grabbed 82% of all wealth created in 2017 - CNN Money https://apple.news/AJRwwjCBQSa6ZP7jfqMvMrw

I think you will find that the trend you post has been the case since your birth. (it didn't start in January of 2017)

That's very true, but with a city like Seattle, this wage disparity has been very profound over the past decade+. Amazon, primarily, and many other tech companies like Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Zillow all have driven up net worth of their workers. Affordable housing used to exist in the city, and no longer does. Median income for married couples in Seattle as of last year was $133,000, 61% higher than the US median for couples. If you are a family of four making less than $72,000 you are considered low income. Median home price in Seattle is just about $800,000. Many people who work in the city can no longer afford to live in the city (or if they do, it is in a homeless encampment). So sure, income disparity really started a few decades ago, but we've seen pretty obvious and rapid separation between the 1% and everyone else since the 80's.

So what do you attribute the homeless problem to? Ive never been to Seattle aren't there affordable housing on the outskirts?

jeffbr · January 2018

JC29856 said:

jeffbr said:

JC29856 said:

josevolution said:

You can start here by fixing this huge problem that Republicans fail to see
The 1% grabbed 82% of all wealth created in 2017 - CNN Money https://apple.news/AJRwwjCBQSa6ZP7jfqMvMrw

I think you will find that the trend you post has been the case since your birth. (it didn't start in January of 2017)

That's very true, but with a city like Seattle, this wage disparity has been very profound over the past decade+. Amazon, primarily, and many other tech companies like Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Zillow all have driven up net worth of their workers. Affordable housing used to exist in the city, and no longer does. Median income for married couples in Seattle as of last year was $133,000, 61% higher than the US median for couples. If you are a family of four making less than $72,000 you are considered low income. Median home price in Seattle is just about $800,000. Many people who work in the city can no longer afford to live in the city (or if they do, it is in a homeless encampment). So sure, income disparity really started a few decades ago, but we've seen pretty obvious and rapid separation between the 1% and everyone else since the 80's.

So what do you attribute the homeless problem to? Ive never been to Seattle aren't there affordable housing on the outskirts?

Nothing illegal. Perhaps immoral. Unfettered greed primarily. The city created a friendly environment for tech companies, especially after seeing what Microsoft did to the region in the 90's. So big tech moved in bringing high paid transplanted workers from Silicon Valley, and a housing boom was created. The 2008 bubble hit, but recovery put things on an even more rapid trajectory. As tech jobs moved in, and housing prices went up, wages for non-tech workers in the city didn't follow pace. Suddenly people were stretched just trying to keep up with rent increases. Seattle is in King County. The county referenced above by Dwyer which has over 68,000 millionaires. So the outskirts are screwed, too. More affordable than in the city in many cases, but not affordable for regular working stiffs. I'm way east of the city, bordering a rural agricultural area, and pay $2,400/mo for a modest 1,400 sqft house. 5 years ago I was renting an identical floorplan 6 houses down for $1,900/mo. When people's wage increases are not commensurate with their rent increases, people suddenly find themselves in a quandry - move somewhere that might add hours to your daily commuting, find a job elsewhere away from the city, likely for less pay, and hope that it is enough to afford rent. Keep your job, but find alternative housing solutions.

That may explain some of the homeless issue. Much of it is also a mental illness crisis. We don't treat the mentally ill. We just try to figure out what to do with them once they're a "problem".

Seattle Homelessness

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New anti-homeless architecture: Seattle uses bike racks to block rough sleepers

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