Canadian Politics Redux

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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,598
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    you aren't right. it's an opinion. DO status is a major deal that basically goes against the rights and freedoms of an individual after serving their debt to society. it is only used in very extreme cases. it isn't about "the poor poor murderers", it's about protecting the rights of society as a whole so it isn't abused. 

    your issue is with sentencing (which I think we can all agree is too lenient in some cases-although you obviously cherry pick rare cases to suit your agenda-not the thousands where the courts got it right), not with the DO designation. 
    Ultimately, you're probably right with regards to what my real issue is.

    These cases I've 'cherry picked' aren't as 'rare' as they should be- they are splashed on the news daily. We error on the side of leniency far too much and as a result... many innocent people are hurt. That is not protecting 'society as a whole'... it's protecting degenerates. If we were protecting society... these women in the story I just submitted would not have been traumatized.
    I think we're talking apples and oranges here. protecting society comes with protecting ALL of it, the innocents, and those who have done wrong and paid their debts. 

    the issue here is the size of the debt, which we agree is not enough. 

    Dangerous offender status is, again, only used, and only should be used, in rare cases where throwing the book at someone isn't enough and there simply is no recourse to keep them incarcerated (like giving the maximum sentence under law, and they'll still get out and are likely to reoffend). that is not the case in any of the cases you mentioned, as the book was not thrown at any of them. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    Here's an example of Crown, the police, and the Alberta Court of Appeal working very hard over years to get first degree murder charges against two individuals (father and stepmother) who tortured and beat a child to death. Apparently one of those rare cases where the justice system worked.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/supreme-court-canada-calgary-couple-magoon-jordan-meika-murder-1.4420360
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    oftenreading said:
    Here's an example of Crown, the police, and the Alberta Court of Appeal working very hard over years to get first degree murder charges against two individuals (father and stepmother) who tortured and beat a child to death. Apparently one of those rare cases where the justice system worked.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/supreme-court-canada-calgary-couple-magoon-jordan-meika-murder-1.4420360
    My gawd.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    The incredible grace and strength of the Virk family has always impressed me, particularly the steps they took with Glowatski. Here it is again on display in an even more difficult situation - Ellard.

    http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/parole-ok-for-reena-virk-s-killer-grandfather-says-1.23106055
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,717
    oftenreading said:
    The incredible grace and strength of the Virk family has always impressed me, particularly the steps they took with Glowatski. Here it is again on display in an even more difficult situation - Ellard.

    http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/parole-ok-for-reena-virk-s-killer-grandfather-says-1.23106055
    Ellard is scum, and I wish she'd never get out of prison. I can't fucking believe that she was actually allowed to have a relationship, get pregnant, and have a kid while she's in there. Really pisses me off.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    BC has made some policy decisions around the marijuana sale issue. Looks like the LDB will be the wholesaler, though not yet clear if weed will be sold in liquor stores or elsewhere. A mix of public and private outlets is expected.

    http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/you-ll-need-to-be-19-to-buy-pot-in-b-c-1.23113191
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,598
    legal age for purchase in manitoba will be 19. weird. why 19 and not 18 like alcohol?
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    legal age for purchase in manitoba will be 19. weird. why 19 and not 18 like alcohol?
    The drinking age is 18 in Manitoba? Huh.

    I suspect that the provinces will go 19 across the board, given the competing demands to (1) make it higher, given concerns about increased use in youth, and (2) the reality that youth are already using and the hope to reduce (probably never eliminate) the black market.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,598
    oftenreading said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    legal age for purchase in manitoba will be 19. weird. why 19 and not 18 like alcohol?
    The drinking age is 18 in Manitoba? Huh.

    I suspect that the provinces will go 19 across the board, given the competing demands to (1) make it higher, given concerns about increased use in youth, and (2) the reality that youth are already using and the hope to reduce (probably never eliminate) the black market.
    I think BC and Ontario are the only provinces that are 19 for drinking. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,717
    edited December 2017
    It seems to me like the provinces have reign over the legal age in their province, so I agree that it's really weird that a province with a legal drinking age of 18 would make it 19. Makes sense in BC and Ontario, obviously. I mean, I understand what you're saying Often, and agree, but if that is the philosophy in Manitoba, then why wouldn't they make the drinking age 19 too? The same principles apply to either industry.

    RE BC deciding that the LBD will be the sole wholesale distributor for weed... That sounds just fine to me. As long as they aren't the sole retailer, I'm good. I also don't really care if they get in on the retail side, as long as private retail is also available, which it will be. In fact, since BC Liquor is unionized, I would actually kind of favour some retail sales being done there.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    Remembering l'Ecole Polytechnique shooting 28 years ago.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/12/06/montreal-marks-28th-anniversary-of-the-1989-ecole-polytechnique-shooting_a_23299687/?utm_hp_ref=ca-homepage
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    PJ_Soul said:
    It seems to me like the provinces have reign over the legal age in their province, so I agree that it's really weird that a province with a legal drinking age of 18 would make it 19. Makes sense in BC and Ontario, obviously. I mean, I understand what you're saying Often, and agree, but if that is the philosophy in Manitoba, then why wouldn't they make the drinking age 19 too? The same principles apply to either industry.

    RE BC deciding that the LBD will be the sole wholesale distributor for weed... That sounds just fine to me. As long as they aren't the sole retailer, I'm good. I also don't really care if they get in on the retail side, as long as private retail is also available, which it will be. In fact, since BC Liquor is unionized, I would actually kind of favour some retail sales being done there.
    I'm not really sure what the other provinces will do about the minimum purchasing age, but I don't think there's any appetite to look at changing the minimum drinking age at this point. That's a lot of trouble for an issue that doesn't seem to have a lot of public concern behind it. Right now it's weed that's getting the attention; we've had decades to get used to the current liquor laws. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,598
    oftenreading said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    It seems to me like the provinces have reign over the legal age in their province, so I agree that it's really weird that a province with a legal drinking age of 18 would make it 19. Makes sense in BC and Ontario, obviously. I mean, I understand what you're saying Often, and agree, but if that is the philosophy in Manitoba, then why wouldn't they make the drinking age 19 too? The same principles apply to either industry.

    RE BC deciding that the LBD will be the sole wholesale distributor for weed... That sounds just fine to me. As long as they aren't the sole retailer, I'm good. I also don't really care if they get in on the retail side, as long as private retail is also available, which it will be. In fact, since BC Liquor is unionized, I would actually kind of favour some retail sales being done there.
    I'm not really sure what the other provinces will do about the minimum purchasing age, but I don't think there's any appetite to look at changing the minimum drinking age at this point. That's a lot of trouble for an issue that doesn't seem to have a lot of public concern behind it. Right now it's weed that's getting the attention; we've had decades to get used to the current liquor laws. 
    but why make the ages different?
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    edited December 2017
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    oftenreading said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    It seems to me like the provinces have reign over the legal age in their province, so I agree that it's really weird that a province with a legal drinking age of 18 would make it 19. Makes sense in BC and Ontario, obviously. I mean, I understand what you're saying Often, and agree, but if that is the philosophy in Manitoba, then why wouldn't they make the drinking age 19 too? The same principles apply to either industry.

    RE BC deciding that the LBD will be the sole wholesale distributor for weed... That sounds just fine to me. As long as they aren't the sole retailer, I'm good. I also don't really care if they get in on the retail side, as long as private retail is also available, which it will be. In fact, since BC Liquor is unionized, I would actually kind of favour some retail sales being done there.
    I'm not really sure what the other provinces will do about the minimum purchasing age, but I don't think there's any appetite to look at changing the minimum drinking age at this point. That's a lot of trouble for an issue that doesn't seem to have a lot of public concern behind it. Right now it's weed that's getting the attention; we've had decades to get used to the current liquor laws. 
    but why make the ages different?
    Well, I'm just guessing here; I don't know if they will be different, but I just think there is enough public concern right now about potential negative effects of marijuana on developing brains to make them come down on the side of the slightly older option. But really,  what do I know?
    Post edited by oftenreading on
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    It's just my view of political thought process - "what's the issue du jour, and how can we get around it with the least negative blow back, even if it doesn't make sense". 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,717
    But if weed is going to be sold in liquor stores (among other places), then wouldn't the legal age have to match the liquor laws?
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,598
    it won't be sold in liquor stores in manitoba. it will all be regulated and distributed by manitoba liquor and lotteries, but sold at licensed private businesses. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,717
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    it won't be sold in liquor stores in manitoba. it will all be regulated and distributed by manitoba liquor and lotteries, but sold at licensed private businesses. 
    That's finalized? In BC will be the same for wholesale distribution, but I think it still remains to be seen if any retail sales will be done in BC liquor stores (among other retailers).
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,598
    PJ_Soul said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    it won't be sold in liquor stores in manitoba. it will all be regulated and distributed by manitoba liquor and lotteries, but sold at licensed private businesses. 
    That's finalized? In BC will be the same for wholesale distribution, but I think it still remains to be seen if any retail sales will be done in BC liquor stores (among other retailers).

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/pot-plans-announced-in-manitoba-pallister-1.4391195

    Manitoba has unveiled a "hybrid model" for selling pot in the province when recreational marijuana use becomes legal next July.

    The Manitoba Liquor and Lotteries Corp. will secure the supply of marijuana and track it in Manitoba, but private retail stores will be in charge of selling it.

    Pot won't be sold where alcohol is sold, which means the province won't have to pay for new storefronts, Premier Brian Pallister said at a news conference on Tuesday.

    Manitoba Liquor and Lotteries will deal with supply chains and orders from retailers, and retail stores will open as early as July 2, 2018.

    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    it won't be sold in liquor stores in manitoba. it will all be regulated and distributed by manitoba liquor and lotteries, but sold at licensed private businesses. 
    That's finalized? In BC will be the same for wholesale distribution, but I think it still remains to be seen if any retail sales will be done in BC liquor stores (among other retailers).

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/pot-plans-announced-in-manitoba-pallister-1.4391195

    Manitoba has unveiled a "hybrid model" for selling pot in the province when recreational marijuana use becomes legal next July.

    The Manitoba Liquor and Lotteries Corp. will secure the supply of marijuana and track it in Manitoba, but private retail stores will be in charge of selling it.

    Pot won't be sold where alcohol is sold, which means the province won't have to pay for new storefronts, Premier Brian Pallister said at a news conference on Tuesday.

    Manitoba Liquor and Lotteries will deal with supply chains and orders from retailers, and retail stores will open as early as July 2, 2018.


    i like a good hybrid
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