2017 Pearl Jam Complete Vinyl Box Set
Comments
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RoleModelsinBlood31 said:Hey serious question but was Petty’s box set a mix of old/new/different pressings or were they pressed specially for the box set?
Don’t know how they usually are, but it just occurred to me to ask. I think I just never know as much about other bands’ vinyl years/reissues/og’s as I do about PJ vinyl.
Curious because I certainly don’t think this was sold as advertised as a lot of you are saying- I figured these would all be new pressings special for the box.... because I guess I think that whenever there’s a box set they’re going to be new, but I guess that’s just in my mind- and I only just realized that doesn’t necessarily have to be the case.2006 Clev,Pitt; 2008 NY MSGx2; 2010 Columbus; 2012 Missoula; 2013 Phoenix,Vancouver,Seattle; 2014 Cincy; 2016 Lex, Wrigley 1&2; 2018 Wrigley 1&2; 2022 Louisville0 -
RoleModelsinBlood31 said:Hey serious question but was Petty’s box set a mix of old/new/different pressings or were they pressed specially for the box set?
Don’t know how they usually are, but it just occurred to me to ask. I think I just never know as much about other bands’ vinyl years/reissues/og’s as I do about PJ vinyl.
Curious because I certainly don’t think this was sold as advertised as a lot of you are saying- I figured these would all be new pressings special for the box.... because I guess I think that whenever there’s a box set they’re going to be new, but I guess that’s just in my mind- and I only just realized that doesn’t necessarily have to be the case.0 -
PP193448 said:RoleModelsinBlood31 said:Hey serious question but was Petty’s box set a mix of old/new/different pressings or were they pressed specially for the box set?
Don’t know how they usually are, but it just occurred to me to ask. I think I just never know as much about other bands’ vinyl years/reissues/og’s as I do about PJ vinyl.
Curious because I certainly don’t think this was sold as advertised as a lot of you are saying- I figured these would all be new pressings special for the box.... because I guess I think that whenever there’s a box set they’re going to be new, but I guess that’s just in my mind- and I only just realized that doesn’t necessarily have to be the case.I'm like an opening band for your mom.0 -
Spiritual_Chaos said:pdalowsky said:Spiritual_Chaos said:pdalowsky said:Spiritual_Chaos said:MayDay10 said:pdalowsky said:What is insane is no one ever said it was going to be anything other than what you described. Its absolutely insane to complain about getting something you ordered, hoped would be something else, and in the end was what you paid for.
You could see this coming though, based on the "now tell us what you are going to give us for ordering this" speculation. IMO, for a lot of people, it was becoming almost accepted that there would be a huge "wow" bonus that would vault this box set into trade, auction, or raffle bait to equal Benaroya vinyl, Cracker Jack, Kong, etc... I would venture to say that most people werent buying this to listen to it. Most of us own many/most of the studio albums as it is... That is the reason i did not purchase. I own every studio album, save 2 of the new reissues, which I ordered for like $30 or whatever, as opposed to hundreds of $ for the box set... (I did want the box but didnt realize it was limited and intended on ordering the next day/monday).
The product came in and was what was described.... but fell far below expectations of some people. I get the disappointment... but I don't think outright criticism is warranted.
I think that,
- Having a fancy COA-letter included
- Taking such an overprice for what it in the end turned out to be
speaks in favor of the people feeling burned.
Where is this so called burn?
If the burn is based on a warped expectation which is plainly wierd, then yes I suppose you may have explained it
And, just for the fun of this... situation could you please explain the COA to me? In your words. What is it for?
And, if you like, can you explain the weirdly high margins on these readily available items, other than;
And people did not get what they paid for, on the image it said it was limited to 500 copies. But 600 were made :P
It's just funny. That COA etc. Haha. And i didn't expect more, but atleast that it would be sealed I guess. Haha. Amazing.
The COA is a piece of paper that confirms the amount of boxsets being sold. Yes there was a slight mix up on the numbering but as far as we know 500 were sold, 500 boxes that were sold like this and as complete sets were numbered and sold by this store. The COA confirms this, nothing more, nothing less. There are only 500 of them made and sold and issued the COA. There is no point in trying to overthink this, as this is exactly what was advertised and pictured when sold. Whether that makes sense is absolutely irrelevant as people bought exactly that.
The wierdly high margin? It was a case of what $50 extra for the convenience of the full set and the added COA? I dont see the mark up as an issue that even needs explaining. It was advertised as what it is, and 500 people bought it. What on earth do tenclub have to do here? The math was there for all to see, it didnt take a genius, yet 500 people (including me) saw it as good enough value. I for one do not remotely regret the decision.
The sealing is just a non point, who really gives a shit when most people want to look inside the box anyway? Not to mention, no where did it say you will receive a sealed box.
How did i do?0 -
patrickwieczore said:RoleModelsinBlood31 said:Hey serious question but was Petty’s box set a mix of old/new/different pressings or were they pressed specially for the box set?
Don’t know how they usually are, but it just occurred to me to ask. I think I just never know as much about other bands’ vinyl years/reissues/og’s as I do about PJ vinyl.
Curious because I certainly don’t think this was sold as advertised as a lot of you are saying- I figured these would all be new pressings special for the box.... because I guess I think that whenever there’s a box set they’re going to be new, but I guess that’s just in my mind- and I only just realized that doesn’t necessarily have to be the case.
But do you see where I’m going with this? Why the fuck would anyone expect when they buy a box set that it’s a mixture (in age/pressing/etc) of albums?! I know when I got Cake’s they were all pressed together for the set.
i know I know I’m fucking crazy, but how the hell can you call this a box set, shouldn’t it have been called “pearl jam studio album collection housed in a collectors box?”
to me a box set is fucking sealed and it’s full of albums that all come out of the factory together, new, for the set.
Anyway, 10c isn’t guilty of false advertising, but to me they’re guilty of a lack of clarification. A box set is a box set, this was a collection of Pearl Jam studio albums housed in a collector’s edition box.
I guess im the odd ball though!I'm like an opening band for your mom.0 -
RoleModelsinBlood31 said:patrickwieczore said:RoleModelsinBlood31 said:Hey serious question but was Petty’s box set a mix of old/new/different pressings or were they pressed specially for the box set?
Don’t know how they usually are, but it just occurred to me to ask. I think I just never know as much about other bands’ vinyl years/reissues/og’s as I do about PJ vinyl.
Curious because I certainly don’t think this was sold as advertised as a lot of you are saying- I figured these would all be new pressings special for the box.... because I guess I think that whenever there’s a box set they’re going to be new, but I guess that’s just in my mind- and I only just realized that doesn’t necessarily have to be the case.
But do you see where I’m going with this? Why the fuck would anyone expect when they buy a box set that it’s a mixture (in age/pressing/etc) of albums?! I know when I got Cake’s they were all pressed together for the set.
i know I know I’m fucking crazy, but how the hell can you call this a box set, shouldn’t it have been called “pearl jam studio album collection housed in a collectors box?”
to me a box set is fucking sealed and it’s full of albums that all come out of the factory together, new, for the set.
Anyway, 10c isn’t guilty of false advertising, but to me they’re guilty of a lack of clarification. A box set is a box set, this was a collection of Pearl Jam studio albums housed in a collector’s edition box.
I guess im the odd ball though!2006 Clev,Pitt; 2008 NY MSGx2; 2010 Columbus; 2012 Missoula; 2013 Phoenix,Vancouver,Seattle; 2014 Cincy; 2016 Lex, Wrigley 1&2; 2018 Wrigley 1&2; 2022 Louisville0 -
pdalowsky said:Spiritual_Chaos said:pdalowsky said:Spiritual_Chaos said:pdalowsky said:Spiritual_Chaos said:MayDay10 said:pdalowsky said:What is insane is no one ever said it was going to be anything other than what you described. Its absolutely insane to complain about getting something you ordered, hoped would be something else, and in the end was what you paid for.
You could see this coming though, based on the "now tell us what you are going to give us for ordering this" speculation. IMO, for a lot of people, it was becoming almost accepted that there would be a huge "wow" bonus that would vault this box set into trade, auction, or raffle bait to equal Benaroya vinyl, Cracker Jack, Kong, etc... I would venture to say that most people werent buying this to listen to it. Most of us own many/most of the studio albums as it is... That is the reason i did not purchase. I own every studio album, save 2 of the new reissues, which I ordered for like $30 or whatever, as opposed to hundreds of $ for the box set... (I did want the box but didnt realize it was limited and intended on ordering the next day/monday).
The product came in and was what was described.... but fell far below expectations of some people. I get the disappointment... but I don't think outright criticism is warranted.
I think that,
- Having a fancy COA-letter included
- Taking such an overprice for what it in the end turned out to be
speaks in favor of the people feeling burned.
Where is this so called burn?
If the burn is based on a warped expectation which is plainly wierd, then yes I suppose you may have explained it
And, just for the fun of this... situation could you please explain the COA to me? In your words. What is it for?
And, if you like, can you explain the weirdly high margins on these readily available items, other than;
And people did not get what they paid for, on the image it said it was limited to 500 copies. But 600 were made :P
It's just funny. That COA etc. Haha. And i didn't expect more, but atleast that it would be sealed I guess. Haha. Amazing.
The COA is a piece of paper that confirms the amount of boxsets being sold. Yes there was a slight mix up on the numbering but as far as we know 500 were sold, 500 boxes that were sold like this and as complete sets were numbered and sold by this store. The COA confirms this, nothing more, nothing less. There are only 500 of them made and sold and issued the COA. There is no point in trying to overthink this, as this is exactly what was advertised and pictured when sold. Whether that makes sense is absolutely irrelevant as people bought exactly that.
The wierdly high margin? It was a case of what $50 extra for the convenience of the full set and the added COA? I dont see the mark up as an issue that even needs explaining. It was advertised as what it is, and 500 people bought it. What on earth do tenclub have to do here? The math was there for all to see, it didnt take a genius, yet 500 people (including me) saw it as good enough value. I for one do not remotely regret the decision.
The sealing is just a non point, who really gives a shit when most people want to look inside the box anyway? Not to mention, no where did it say you will receive a sealed box.
How did i do?
But anyways,
By your absolute view of all this "you got what was described" where expectations do not have a part, then you think this is okey too?
The guy got what he paid for. No where did it state the size of the carpet. Haha.
I don't think you can take away a certain amount of expectations from the equation. And a COA and a non-discount price fuels expectations.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwTPZ0axv04
And I do think printing a COA just for the fact people put in off-the-shelves records in a box (being sold separately) and selling it for more than the items separately cost is kind of..a farce and a slap to the face of the International Organization for Upholding Quality of COAs.
And you describing the COA, made me think of like.. signing a contract with your mom to clean your room for a year to get a Nintendo. It's just silly.
(But everything can't be Gene Simmons Vauklt with included stage-worn socks from the 70s)
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
RoleModelsinBlood31 said:patrickwieczore said:RoleModelsinBlood31 said:Hey serious question but was Petty’s box set a mix of old/new/different pressings or were they pressed specially for the box set?
Don’t know how they usually are, but it just occurred to me to ask. I think I just never know as much about other bands’ vinyl years/reissues/og’s as I do about PJ vinyl.
Curious because I certainly don’t think this was sold as advertised as a lot of you are saying- I figured these would all be new pressings special for the box.... because I guess I think that whenever there’s a box set they’re going to be new, but I guess that’s just in my mind- and I only just realized that doesn’t necessarily have to be the case.
But do you see where I’m going with this? Why the fuck would anyone expect when they buy a box set that it’s a mixture (in age/pressing/etc) of albums?! I know when I got Cake’s they were all pressed together for the set.
i know I know I’m fucking crazy, but how the hell can you call this a box set, shouldn’t it have been called “pearl jam studio album collection housed in a collectors box?”
to me a box set is fucking sealed and it’s full of albums that all come out of the factory together, new, for the set.
Anyway, 10c isn’t guilty of false advertising, but to me they’re guilty of a lack of clarification. A box set is a box set, this was a collection of Pearl Jam studio albums housed in a collector’s edition box.
I guess im the odd ball though!
But that thought never even crossed my mind. The fact it was released the same day as the other 4 reissues I immediately assumed it was those 4 reissues, plus other 6 they had remaining since they are still available. Never occurred to me that they would be pressed specially for this set.
I guess if that is what you were expecting you could be disappointed, but if that was the case I also think they would have made it more clear.0 -
mace1229 said:RoleModelsinBlood31 said:patrickwieczore said:RoleModelsinBlood31 said:Hey serious question but was Petty’s box set a mix of old/new/different pressings or were they pressed specially for the box set?
Don’t know how they usually are, but it just occurred to me to ask. I think I just never know as much about other bands’ vinyl years/reissues/og’s as I do about PJ vinyl.
Curious because I certainly don’t think this was sold as advertised as a lot of you are saying- I figured these would all be new pressings special for the box.... because I guess I think that whenever there’s a box set they’re going to be new, but I guess that’s just in my mind- and I only just realized that doesn’t necessarily have to be the case.
But do you see where I’m going with this? Why the fuck would anyone expect when they buy a box set that it’s a mixture (in age/pressing/etc) of albums?! I know when I got Cake’s they were all pressed together for the set.
i know I know I’m fucking crazy, but how the hell can you call this a box set, shouldn’t it have been called “pearl jam studio album collection housed in a collectors box?”
to me a box set is fucking sealed and it’s full of albums that all come out of the factory together, new, for the set.
Anyway, 10c isn’t guilty of false advertising, but to me they’re guilty of a lack of clarification. A box set is a box set, this was a collection of Pearl Jam studio albums housed in a collector’s edition box.
I guess im the odd ball though!
But that thought never even crossed my mind. The fact it was released the same day as the other 4 reissues I immediately assumed it was those 4 reissues, plus other 6 they had remaining since they are still available. Never occurred to me that they would be pressed specially for this set.
I guess if that is what you were expecting you could be disappointed, but if that was the case I also think they would have made it more clear.
But hey, whatever. I got one and am keeping it.0 -
mace1229 said:Spiritual_Chaos said:mace1229 said:Spiritual_Chaos said:mace1229 said:
Not that I personally care.
Now Im off work. Weeeeeeeee.
The point is, now that everyone is getting exactly what was advertised, some are not happy. Which is sort of funny to me. Was it the increased cost of the bundle that made so many assume there was something more to it? Seeing how it really has about a $250 retail value when bought separately made everyone assume the extra $100 and COA was for the secret signatures?
There is nothing about these boxes that wasn't advertised. Even with the numbering mishap, they still only sold 500.
Seems like a big case of buyers remorse to some. Probably wishing they sold it 3 weeks ago for $1500.
Name another case where something has been sold wholesale and have had a higher price than market value for the separate items, or where a COA-letter has been included simply because of someone putting items into a box that were available for everyone to buy?
Wheres the precedent?
Maybe I'm just looking at this wrong, being late afternoon and all. Or maybe I want to think more of the world than everyone being Gene Simmons.
But.
- Whats limited about this box?
- They put records into the box instead of you doing it for the limited time it took to put them in exactly 600. Then they stopped. And it cost more than it would to buy the items one by one.
I get people feeling burned out, like I said above.
And I want pearl Jam to be more than, "Please go visit kissonline.com"
But no where did they advertise anything additional other than the COA. Ad thats what you got.
doctorvik said his albums have ringwear on them. Okay, I would complain about that. I wouldnt complain they weren;t sealed, but I would about ringwear.
Apprently the box itself is what is limited. The empty ones sold out almost as fast.0 -
mace1229 said:RoleModelsinBlood31 said:patrickwieczore said:RoleModelsinBlood31 said:Hey serious question but was Petty’s box set a mix of old/new/different pressings or were they pressed specially for the box set?
Don’t know how they usually are, but it just occurred to me to ask. I think I just never know as much about other bands’ vinyl years/reissues/og’s as I do about PJ vinyl.
Curious because I certainly don’t think this was sold as advertised as a lot of you are saying- I figured these would all be new pressings special for the box.... because I guess I think that whenever there’s a box set they’re going to be new, but I guess that’s just in my mind- and I only just realized that doesn’t necessarily have to be the case.
But do you see where I’m going with this? Why the fuck would anyone expect when they buy a box set that it’s a mixture (in age/pressing/etc) of albums?! I know when I got Cake’s they were all pressed together for the set.
i know I know I’m fucking crazy, but how the hell can you call this a box set, shouldn’t it have been called “pearl jam studio album collection housed in a collectors box?”
to me a box set is fucking sealed and it’s full of albums that all come out of the factory together, new, for the set.
Anyway, 10c isn’t guilty of false advertising, but to me they’re guilty of a lack of clarification. A box set is a box set, this was a collection of Pearl Jam studio albums housed in a collector’s edition box.
I guess im the odd ball though!
But that thought never even crossed my mind. The fact it was released the same day as the other 4 reissues I immediately assumed it was those 4 reissues, plus other 6 they had remaining since they are still available. Never occurred to me that they would be pressed specially for this set.
I guess if that is what you were expecting you could be disappointed, but if that was the case I also think they would have made it more clear.
the number issue- who gives a shit.
sealed or unsealed?- the box should have been sealed, no question. You don’t sell a box set unsealed, unless it’s already been used. sorry, that’s just the way it works. Shit, if there’s even a tear in shrink wrap vinyl collectors/dealers let you know about it. They say “new, with a tear” or whatever. There’s no excuse here.
COA- completely unnecessary, used in order to sell them because they never would have sold otherwise.
bix set- this isn’t a box set, plain and simple. It’s a collection of studio albums housed in a collectors box.
All in all- I didn’t buy it but I can’t let the pj fanboy club on the board here attack those that bought it because they’re unhappy. There’s definitely A LOT of reasons for people to be unhappy about this based on what was expected.I'm like an opening band for your mom.0 -
Wholly shit...All this hate and discontent regarding this box, yet no one has offered theirs up to me...C'mon with it...You hate it...Let me buy it...I'm a Thief, I'm a Liar, There's my Church, I sing in the Choir...Hallelujah...0
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I feel for the folks who bought this box set...Amazon.ca has VS for $19.26 - No Code for $23.69 - Ten was $22.30 if pre ordered.
S/T, Riot Act and Binaural are $31 apiece. Cdn dolla... $158.25Cdn so far...I paid $24.99 for Vitology - $26.10 for Yield - $23.00 for Backspacer and $30.00 for LB. That equals(including shipping and tax) - $262.34Cdn or $205.78 US...for the same stuff minus the fancy letter and box. I would be a bit annoyed as well.
I feel bad now.
Cheers0 -
cjzoly said:Wholly shit...All this hate and discontent regarding this box, yet no one has offered theirs up to me...C'mon with it...You hate it...Let me buy it...
Post edited by Bigrfish on0 -
cjzoly said:Wholly shit...All this hate and discontent regarding this box, yet no one has offered theirs up to me...C'mon with it...You hate it...Let me buy it...
SOMEBODY hook my homie up!!he's good people. he hooked me up with some nice vinyl in the past.
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
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1996- Charleston, SC
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2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
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2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
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2014- Cincinnati, OH
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2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2
2020- Nashville, TN
2022- Smashville
2023- Austin, TX x2
2024- Baltimore
0 -
patrickwieczore said:RoleModelsinBlood31 said:Hey serious question but was Petty’s box set a mix of old/new/different pressings or were they pressed specially for the box set?
Don’t know how they usually are, but it just occurred to me to ask. I think I just never know as much about other bands’ vinyl years/reissues/og’s as I do about PJ vinyl.
Curious because I certainly don’t think this was sold as advertised as a lot of you are saying- I figured these would all be new pressings special for the box.... because I guess I think that whenever there’s a box set they’re going to be new, but I guess that’s just in my mind- and I only just realized that doesn’t necessarily have to be the case.Post edited by Bigrfish on0 -
Spiritual_Chaos said:pdalowsky said:Spiritual_Chaos said:pdalowsky said:Spiritual_Chaos said:pdalowsky said:Spiritual_Chaos said:MayDay10 said:pdalowsky said:What is insane is no one ever said it was going to be anything other than what you described. Its absolutely insane to complain about getting something you ordered, hoped would be something else, and in the end was what you paid for.
You could see this coming though, based on the "now tell us what you are going to give us for ordering this" speculation. IMO, for a lot of people, it was becoming almost accepted that there would be a huge "wow" bonus that would vault this box set into trade, auction, or raffle bait to equal Benaroya vinyl, Cracker Jack, Kong, etc... I would venture to say that most people werent buying this to listen to it. Most of us own many/most of the studio albums as it is... That is the reason i did not purchase. I own every studio album, save 2 of the new reissues, which I ordered for like $30 or whatever, as opposed to hundreds of $ for the box set... (I did want the box but didnt realize it was limited and intended on ordering the next day/monday).
The product came in and was what was described.... but fell far below expectations of some people. I get the disappointment... but I don't think outright criticism is warranted.
I think that,
- Having a fancy COA-letter included
- Taking such an overprice for what it in the end turned out to be
speaks in favor of the people feeling burned.
Where is this so called burn?
If the burn is based on a warped expectation which is plainly wierd, then yes I suppose you may have explained it
And, just for the fun of this... situation could you please explain the COA to me? In your words. What is it for?
And, if you like, can you explain the weirdly high margins on these readily available items, other than;
And people did not get what they paid for, on the image it said it was limited to 500 copies. But 600 were made :P
It's just funny. That COA etc. Haha. And i didn't expect more, but atleast that it would be sealed I guess. Haha. Amazing.
The COA is a piece of paper that confirms the amount of boxsets being sold. Yes there was a slight mix up on the numbering but as far as we know 500 were sold, 500 boxes that were sold like this and as complete sets were numbered and sold by this store. The COA confirms this, nothing more, nothing less. There are only 500 of them made and sold and issued the COA. There is no point in trying to overthink this, as this is exactly what was advertised and pictured when sold. Whether that makes sense is absolutely irrelevant as people bought exactly that.
The wierdly high margin? It was a case of what $50 extra for the convenience of the full set and the added COA? I dont see the mark up as an issue that even needs explaining. It was advertised as what it is, and 500 people bought it. What on earth do tenclub have to do here? The math was there for all to see, it didnt take a genius, yet 500 people (including me) saw it as good enough value. I for one do not remotely regret the decision.
The sealing is just a non point, who really gives a shit when most people want to look inside the box anyway? Not to mention, no where did it say you will receive a sealed box.
How did i do?
But anyways,
By your absolute view of all this "you got what was described" where expectations do not have a part, then you think this is okey too?
The guy got what he paid for. No where did it state the size of the carpet. Haha.
I don't think you can take away a certain amount of expectations from the equation. And a COA and a non-discount price fuels expectations.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwTPZ0axv04
And I do think printing a COA just for the fact people put in off-the-shelves records in a box (being sold separately) and selling it for more than the items separately cost is kind of..a farce and a slap to the face of the International Organization for Upholding Quality of COAs.
And you describing the COA, made me think of like.. signing a contract with your mom to clean your room for a year to get a Nintendo. It's just silly.
(But everything can't be Gene Simmons Vauklt with included stage-worn socks from the 70s)
Oh oh come on ... the rug point is plainly stupid. If anyone buys a rug without checking it's size first then they deserve all they get. I mean would you buy a TV for $200 without knowing the size and be disappointed to get a 20 inch screen and not a 50 inch? I find that whole concept a nonsense
the COA is exactly what it said it would be. What did anyone actually think this would be if it wasn't as I explained or described? Seriously ? I sense that you feel the COA was ridiculous but really dude your opinion isn't really important when asking what it was. The COA was included exactly as photographed and exactly as expected. I just don't understand why you have an issue with this? It's not the first time a bit of paper is in a box like this.
Can i ask, did you buy one of these? And are disappointed by what you got ? Or are you taking issue with a product you didn't buy and have no reason to react to ? I'm intrigued0 -
Bigrfish said:I feel for the folks who bought this box set...Amazon.ca has VS for $19.26 - No Code for $23.69 - Ten was $22.30 if pre ordered.
S/T, Riot Act and Binaural are $31 apiece. Cdn dolla... $158.25Cdn so far...I paid $24.99 for Vitology - $26.10 for Yield - $23.00 for Backspacer and $30.00 for LB. That equals(including shipping and tax) - $262.34Cdn or $205.78 US...for the same stuff minus the fancy letter and box. I would be a bit annoyed as well.
I feel bad now.
Cheers
0 -
Oh and I have no idea what on earth the Nintendo comparison was all about but whatever0
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