The Death Penalty

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  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,855
    There have been recent developments that are worth discussing. No?

    His case is not an 'outlier in an otherwise excellent and very functional NCRMD system in Canada' from my perspective. His case oozes with everything that is wrong with our system- from judicial hearings to correctional services.

    Let's go have a latte together.
    Honestly, I've provided a ton of information about the Review Board system, how it works, the clear evidence around its efficacy, and how it differs from the rest of the judicial and corrections system in Canada. I don't feel like going through it again. Those who were interested in learning from it have probably already done so. Those who aren't won't change their minds with whatever I could say today 
     
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • PJ_Soul said:
    It is a grim scenario for sure, and I felt slightly uncomfortable even typing it to a father TBH, but figured you'd be okay with it for the sake of the discussing. ;) I hear ya on the mobile version of the forum - it sucks.
    And, right back at you. I have friendly feelings towards you and most other people on the AMT, no matter how much we may disagree ... That's why I think we should meet up for drinks when we're both seeing the same show one of these days; I bet we could come up with some good conversations, lol. ;)
    Agreed!

    Cheers.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,855
    Hard to believe some still think the death penalty is a good idea when cases like these abound.

    A man was put to death two weeks ago for a murder of a prison guard despite there being no physical evidence linking him to the crime, and the only "witness" testimony from inmates who were bribed, including one who was promised to be moved to a prison closer to his family if he provided positive testimony, and threatened to be charged with the crime himself if he refused to testify. But he has a history of violence, the pro-DP side will say; he was already in prison after being convicted of accessory to a murder, so he's a bad guy and deserves to die. Except that his prior conviction came when he was a 15 year old boy who did nothing other than watch as his father killed their neighbour. 

    (NB the article was written prior to the sentence being carried out, but he was killed by lethal injection on October 13)

    http://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2017/10/junk-science-unreliable-witnesses-no-matter-texas-plans-to-execute-robert-pruett-anyway/

    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Hard to believe some still think the death penalty is a good idea when cases like these abound.

    A man was put to death two weeks ago for a murder of a prison guard despite there being no physical evidence linking him to the crime, and the only "witness" testimony from inmates who were bribed, including one who was promised to be moved to a prison closer to his family if he provided positive testimony, and threatened to be charged with the crime himself if he refused to testify. But he has a history of violence, the pro-DP side will say; he was already in prison after being convicted of accessory to a murder, so he's a bad guy and deserves to die. Except that his prior conviction came when he was a 15 year old boy who did nothing other than watch as his father killed their neighbour. 

    (NB the article was written prior to the sentence being carried out, but he was killed by lethal injection on October 13)

    http://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2017/10/junk-science-unreliable-witnesses-no-matter-texas-plans-to-execute-robert-pruett-anyway/


    Hard to believe some still think the death penalty is a bad idea when cases like this abound.

    An Atlanta mom is accused of killing her 1- and 2-year-old sons by cooking them alive in an oven — and then sending their father footage of the grisly aftermath.

    The anti-DP side will say: that the video evidence isn't conclusive and things like 'she was depressed so it wasn't her fault' and 'we can't play God'. Except the autopsy results and video evidence are conclusive and this disgusting piece of shit is worthless and is not fit to breathe the same air as us, enjoy a laugh, watch television, enjoy a meal, or speak to another human.

    She needs to go.

    http://nypost.com/2017/10/16/mom-accused-of-killing-her-babies-by-cooking-them-alive-in-oven/
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,855
    Sure, what's the loss of a few innocent people here and there when there's vengeance to be had?
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Sure, what's the loss of a few innocent people here and there when there's vengeance to be had?

    So the figure in your case is innocent?

    I know of that case and to be quite honest... I wasn't down with the idea of executing him. He is as guilty as he is innocent though (maybe more so)- so don't carelessly throw that term out there as if innocence is indisputable to make your case against the DP.

    Abuse of the DP does not mean we should abolish it. Careful administration of it in the most appropriate cases- given their circumstances- is very reasonable.

    I take it from your response you feel the DP is not appropriate for the woman who cooked her two babies alive in her oven? I'm not surprised.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,855
    Given that I've made no secret that I don't believe the death penalty is appropriate in any case, it's not a shocker. 

    There is no physical evidence of guilt in the case I posted and there is evidence against the finding of guilt. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,855
    And I would add that there hasn't even been a trial in the case posted above. Wouldn't be the first time the facts of a case turn out to be different from what was originally posted online. Also wouldn't be rhe first time that someone was in favour of the DP for someone who hasn't even had a trial yet. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Given that I've made no secret that I don't believe the death penalty is appropriate in any case, it's not a shocker. 

    There is no physical evidence of guilt in the case I posted and there is evidence against the finding of guilt. 

    Just as there is evidence for finding the guy guilty- even though it's not iron clad. Quit persisting he's innocent based on what you've read on the internet (a rather ironic tactic given your next post admonishing the pro DP crew for formulating their opinions based on what they read from the web in their rush for blood).

    I've already said I wasn't in favour of executing him.

    And good for you finding it within your heart to essentially forgive the mutant mother that cooked her two babies alive in the oven. You're a way better person than me.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,855
    Assuming you didn't attend the trial, you're also basing your analysis on what you've read on the internet. 

    And there is a major difference between information gathered over many years and many different appeals, and what is reported in one brief paragraph pre-trial. 

    Finally, as has been stated repeatedly, "forgiveness" isn't part of the analysis.  Many other factors are, but that one isn't. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,855
    Strangely enough, the legal standard for a finding in a criminal trial is "beyond a reasonable doubt". I wonder if there are grounds for reasonable doubt here? Particularly when witnesses were bribed and the jury was not informed of that fact. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Strangely enough, the legal standard for a finding in a criminal trial is "beyond a reasonable doubt". I wonder if there are grounds for reasonable doubt here? Particularly when witnesses were bribed and the jury was not informed of that fact. 
    The case you presented is very questionable. In my opinion, the DP was harsh and maybe even erroneously applied. We are not really arguing about the circumstances in this case.

    The DP is not something that should be wantonly applied. But it is something that should be utilized in the most grim cases.

    The disgusting human thread where two degenerates killed their baby haven't prompted me to chant "March them to the chair" (that said... I wouldn't lose an ounce of sleep if they were executed... brutal... just brutal); however, I feel their crime was one of being completely pathetic and consequently negligent. Unless the facts reveal a more sinister scenario than being so drugged up (Trainspotting style) they failed to care for their infant... prison is fine.

    The case I presented is one where the DP is very reasonable if the story is accurate and that disgusting excuse of a woman baked her children alive (you seem to think major news agencies and grieving husband might not have the full story).
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,855
    I'm surprised that anyone could seriously think that a brief news report of an arrest could "have the whole story".

    And I'm never really in favour of skipping the trial and jumping straight to the sentencing phase. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • I'm surprised that anyone could seriously think that a brief news report of an arrest could "have the whole story".

    And I'm never really in favour of skipping the trial and jumping straight to the sentencing phase. 

    Well obviously if the story is dramatically different than what we have been told... my opinion would change.

    All accounts to this point in time have a distraught and grieving father and video footage of the mess. What are you waiting to hear? The woman's mindset to help us understand why she baked her kids and how we might best move forward in a positive direction from here with a comprehensive rehabilitation effort? 

    Let me clarify if it makes you feel better: if this Atlanta woman placed her young toddlers into an oven, baked them alive, made a video of the event, and sent it to her ex... she deserves a sentence of death.

    I'd be curious to know if you would feel differently about the DP if one of your children was killed in grotesque fashion by some sick bastard? Would you want the murderer of your child behind bars enjoying any comfort they might happen to find there (some find many comforts and their days aren't too shabby)... or would you want them dead?

    What would you accept as justice for your slain child?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 30,937
    I'd say the two idiots who left their 4month old on swing set to die should def be put to death ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,855
    What we have here...... is a failure to communicate.

    One more time.

    I don't believe in the death penalty. Full stop. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • What we have here...... is a failure to communicate.

    One more time.

    I don't believe in the death penalty. Full stop. 
    Fair enough,
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Scumbag who avoids the Death Penalty for killing multiple people for kicks brags of other victims. But he 'doesn't see a reason to give numbers or locations.'

    I think some time in general population might motivate the shitbird.

    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/a-serial-killer’s-creepy-post-conviction-message-there-are-more-victims/ar-BBGzGCt?li=AAggNb9&ocid=edgsp
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Worked very well for this guy: he killed his two kids to get revenge on his ex.

    He did manage to taunt his ex before he was put to death. I guess he wasn't very remorseful.

    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/texas-dad-who-killed-daughters-while-on-phone-with-estranged-wife-taunts-her-at-execution/ar-BBIDTYF?li=AAggFp5&ocid=edgsp
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,165
    I come to this thread reluctantly, but I have a question for @Thirty Bills Unpaid:

    you have often called for justice for the family of the victim(s). what do you think about this?

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/16/africa/sudan-noura-hussein-clemency/index.html

    A judge sentenced her to death last week after her husband's family refused an option to pardon her and rejected financial compensation, requesting that she be executed instead

    now, this case itself probably isn't the best example, but the question remains: do you think it's appropriate for a judicial system to give power to the victim's family over the sentence of the accused?
    "every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"




  • Hugh...

    I had that case queued up as a draft for the rape thread. This was self defence and not something I'd ever deem fit for any penalty let alone death.

    The judicial system should not cede powers to survivors, but having said that... the judicial system should concern itself with them and the general idea of justice.

    * There was a guy executed in Texas a few days back that did not do the DP argument any favours.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • This would be the other thread I referred to.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    Canadian graphic novelist Blake Leibel sentenced to life with no chance of parole for murder of

    fianceehttp://nationalpost.com/news/world/canadian-graphic-novelist-blake-leibel-sentenced-to-life-in-prison-with-no-chance-of-parole?video_autoplay=true


    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Canadian graphic novelist Blake Leibel sentenced to life with no chance of parole for murder of

    fianceehttp://nationalpost.com/news/world/canadian-graphic-novelist-blake-leibel-sentenced-to-life-in-prison-with-no-chance-of-parole?video_autoplay=true


    A death sentence would have been appropriate for this fat tub of sh*t. General population won't be great for this worthless piece of excrement.

    Confinement. Torture. Depravity. 

    His victim's final moments must have been excruciating and horrific.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    A death sentence would have been appropriate for this fat tub of sh*t. General population won't be great for this worthless piece of excrement.

    Confinement. Torture. Depravity. 

    His victim's final moments must have been excruciating and horrific.
    Lets hope he's gets GP ... he might ask for solitary.  There are some animals that should not be allowed to share this earth.  He qualifies.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    ^^^Another point, him being Canadian he at some point can apply to be transferred to a Canadian Prison ...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,395
    ^^^Another point, him being Canadian he at some point can apply to be transferred to a Canadian Prison ...
    That is so unlikely there is no point worrying about it.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    PJ_Soul said:
    That is so unlikely there is no point worrying about it.
    Are you sure.  Remember the dude on death row in mintana (can't remember his name) ... but I know I read that if just excepted the life sentence he likely have eventually be returned to a Canadian Prison and eventually released.  His companions are now walking the street.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    Ottawa makes clemency case for 'reformed' Canadian on U.S. death row

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/smith-clemency-ronald-red-deer-montana-death-row-sentence-1.4465115

    This guy.  By the way I do not care if he's reformed or not ... he should at least remain in jail for life...in Montana.
    Give Peas A Chance…
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