The Confederacy - Erasing History

CM189191 · August 2017

mrussel1 said:

tbergs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

CM189191 said:

brianlux said:

Why were these considered OK?

I'm thinking someone was just trolling. I doubt these people even knew that it was a Russian flag.

The irony is thick this morning.

This is kind of an old story, right?

Irony never gets old but it's sometimes lost.

Why are we diverting to Trump and Russia flags? Brian asked a pertinent question with confederate flags and past Dems campaigns. Those complaining of irony and pointing at the other side are partaking in the deflect or "whataboutism" stategy often used in their favor when it's a Trump or Antifa statement.

I think Brian is spot on. It's like the Trump eclipse story. If that was anyone else, and I mean political leader, no one would care, but because Trump is a bumbling doofus, it's a national story. Make fun and move on.

Remember how you felt when the right made fun or criticized everything Obama did. Didn't change your mind I'm guessing so don't expect it to for him either. Everything has become a childish game of trying to point who does what wrong constantly, and I mean by all sides.

I'm arguing that those aren't real. There's no way in God's green earth that the HRC campaign produced stars and bars pins. They are trolls or photoshop. So the whole premise is bullshit.

Would you say they are.....false flags?

mrussel1 · August 2017

I"m here all week.. tip your servers...

brianlux · August 2017

tbergs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

CM189191 said:

brianlux said:

Why were these considered OK?

I'm thinking someone was just trolling. I doubt these people even knew that it was a Russian flag.

The irony is thick this morning.

This is kind of an old story, right?

Irony never gets old but it's sometimes lost.

Why are we diverting to Trump and Russia flags? Brian asked a pertinent question with confederate flags and past Dems campaigns. Those complaining of irony and pointing at the other side are partaking in the deflect or "whataboutism" stategy often used in their favor when it's a Trump or Antifa statement.

I think Brian is spot on. It's like the Trump eclipse story. If that was anyone else, and I mean political leader, no one would care, but because Trump is a bumbling doofus, it's a national story. Make fun and move on.

Remember how you felt when the right made fun or criticized everything Obama did. Didn't change your mind I'm guessing so don't expect it to for him either. Everything has become a childish game of trying to point who does what wrong constantly, and I mean by all sides.

Diverting and deflecting. Well said, T. They are difficult questions and the answers to the solutions are difficult. I don't have all the answers, but I think it's worth pursuing them- that is, finding solutions that work better than creating more division.

mrussel1 said:

tbergs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

CM189191 said:

brianlux said:

Why were these considered OK?

I'm thinking someone was just trolling. I doubt these people even knew that it was a Russian flag.

The irony is thick this morning.

This is kind of an old story, right?

Irony never gets old but it's sometimes lost.

Why are we diverting to Trump and Russia flags? Brian asked a pertinent question with confederate flags and past Dems campaigns. Those complaining of irony and pointing at the other side are partaking in the deflect or "whataboutism" stategy often used in their favor when it's a Trump or Antifa statement.

I think Brian is spot on. It's like the Trump eclipse story. If that was anyone else, and I mean political leader, no one would care, but because Trump is a bumbling doofus, it's a national story. Make fun and move on.

Remember how you felt when the right made fun or criticized everything Obama did. Didn't change your mind I'm guessing so don't expect it to for him either. Everything has become a childish game of trying to point who does what wrong constantly, and I mean by all sides.

I'm arguing that those aren't real. There's no way in God's green earth that the HRC campaign produced stars and bars pins. They are trolls or photoshop. So the whole premise is bullshit.

More deflection. I notice you seem to not want to answer the more pertinent question which was basically can we really expect to end racism by going at it with an attaching attitude, telling people they are bad and wrong and telling people them what to do.

Gern Blansten · August 2017

It's amazing to me how the GOP (which is supposed to be this patriotic, pro-military, wrapped in the flag party) wants to endorse the confederate movement which took up arms AGAINST the United States.

mrussel1 · August 2017

brianlux said:

tbergs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

CM189191 said:

brianlux said:

Why were these considered OK?

I'm thinking someone was just trolling. I doubt these people even knew that it was a Russian flag.

The irony is thick this morning.

This is kind of an old story, right?

Irony never gets old but it's sometimes lost.

Why are we diverting to Trump and Russia flags? Brian asked a pertinent question with confederate flags and past Dems campaigns. Those complaining of irony and pointing at the other side are partaking in the deflect or "whataboutism" stategy often used in their favor when it's a Trump or Antifa statement.

I think Brian is spot on. It's like the Trump eclipse story. If that was anyone else, and I mean political leader, no one would care, but because Trump is a bumbling doofus, it's a national story. Make fun and move on.

Remember how you felt when the right made fun or criticized everything Obama did. Didn't change your mind I'm guessing so don't expect it to for him either. Everything has become a childish game of trying to point who does what wrong constantly, and I mean by all sides.

Diverting and deflecting. Well said, T. They are difficult questions and the answers to the solutions are difficult. I don't have all the answers, but I think it's worth pursuing them- that is, finding solutions that work better than creating more division.

mrussel1 said:

tbergs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

CM189191 said:

brianlux said:

Why were these considered OK?

I'm thinking someone was just trolling. I doubt these people even knew that it was a Russian flag.

The irony is thick this morning.

This is kind of an old story, right?

Irony never gets old but it's sometimes lost.

Why are we diverting to Trump and Russia flags? Brian asked a pertinent question with confederate flags and past Dems campaigns. Those complaining of irony and pointing at the other side are partaking in the deflect or "whataboutism" stategy often used in their favor when it's a Trump or Antifa statement.

I think Brian is spot on. It's like the Trump eclipse story. If that was anyone else, and I mean political leader, no one would care, but because Trump is a bumbling doofus, it's a national story. Make fun and move on.

Remember how you felt when the right made fun or criticized everything Obama did. Didn't change your mind I'm guessing so don't expect it to for him either. Everything has become a childish game of trying to point who does what wrong constantly, and I mean by all sides.

I'm arguing that those aren't real. There's no way in God's green earth that the HRC campaign produced stars and bars pins. They are trolls or photoshop. So the whole premise is bullshit.

More deflection. I notice you seem to not want to answer the more pertinent question which was basically can we really expect to end racism by going at it with an attaching attitude, telling people they are bad and wrong and telling people them what to do.

No one said it will be the end of racism. Does sending $1 a day to unicef end world hunger? No, of course not, but it helps. Removing symbols that are meant to glorify a movement that left the Union in order to preserve slavery would be a good move as well.

And no one is deflecting. You started this part of the discussion with those idiotic troll buttons.

Gern Blansten · August 2017

There is absolutely zero arguments that can be made that the confederacy wasn't a pro slave/anti-freedom movement. It is a sick part of our history. Monuments to confederate "heroes" should be obliterated.

PJ_Soul · August 2017

brianlux said:

OK, let's try this again. Here's the problem I have with this whole tearing down monuments and statues things. What I'm hearing is that a bunch of people from another culture (yes, us Yankees and Westerners and Canadians and whatnot are of another culture) want to go in and tell Southerners what they should do to eradicate their past. Now that might not be a bad thing if the intention is to eradicate the seething evil of racism that lies underneath what those monuments and statues stand for but does anyone think for one minute that going down there and saying, "Fuck you, we're tearing your shit down," is going to change anyone's mind about the underlying illness of racism? Come on, really?

What if someone came up to you and took something you value and replace it with what you think is right- is that going to go down well with you? No, seriously, think about it. And yeah, OK, erroneously you think this thing is cool but it's not but is some outsider beating down your door and telling you you're full of shit going to change your mind about JACK?

Let's use some sense here. This is not how you change shit. It never works. It's like many years ago when I was pissing my life away on alcohol and bad living habits and my folks were giving me shit for it. Hey, guess what, did that set me straight? How do you suppose I reacted to that? Yeah, I drank more. Groovy.

NOT!

Tearing down offensive monuments doesn't eradicate their past at all. History is history. It's the commemoration of those represented in the monuments that would be gone, not the history itself. I also don't think it's about changing the minds of racists at all. People aren't that naive. It's simply about trying to get rid of what they symbolize. As for your "what if" question... IF I valued offensive monuments that are symbols of racism and the perpetuation of Jim Crow, then anyone would be right in looking at me and saying "shame on you!" This is the exact same thing as the Confederate flag goons. Just because some wrong-minded people who have been brainwashed into this bizarre Confederate idolization like it, it doesn't mean it's okay or that others should tolerate it forever. It is a piece of the racist, Jim Crow puzzle, and I personally see no problem with pushing to do something about it, whether these Confederation fans like it or not. It's not about changing their minds, it's about changing things for future generations, one puzzle piece at a time. It's about time this Confederacy nonsense started getting phased out. I'm surprised it took so long.

Jason P · August 2017

I grew up associating the confederate flag with the most bad ass car ever produced

brianlux · August 2017

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

tbergs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

CM189191 said:

brianlux said:

Why were these considered OK?

I'm thinking someone was just trolling. I doubt these people even knew that it was a Russian flag.

The irony is thick this morning.

This is kind of an old story, right?

Irony never gets old but it's sometimes lost.

Why are we diverting to Trump and Russia flags? Brian asked a pertinent question with confederate flags and past Dems campaigns. Those complaining of irony and pointing at the other side are partaking in the deflect or "whataboutism" stategy often used in their favor when it's a Trump or Antifa statement.

I think Brian is spot on. It's like the Trump eclipse story. If that was anyone else, and I mean political leader, no one would care, but because Trump is a bumbling doofus, it's a national story. Make fun and move on.

Remember how you felt when the right made fun or criticized everything Obama did. Didn't change your mind I'm guessing so don't expect it to for him either. Everything has become a childish game of trying to point who does what wrong constantly, and I mean by all sides.

Diverting and deflecting. Well said, T. They are difficult questions and the answers to the solutions are difficult. I don't have all the answers, but I think it's worth pursuing them- that is, finding solutions that work better than creating more division.

mrussel1 said:

tbergs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

CM189191 said:

brianlux said:

Why were these considered OK?

I'm thinking someone was just trolling. I doubt these people even knew that it was a Russian flag.

The irony is thick this morning.

This is kind of an old story, right?

Irony never gets old but it's sometimes lost.

Why are we diverting to Trump and Russia flags? Brian asked a pertinent question with confederate flags and past Dems campaigns. Those complaining of irony and pointing at the other side are partaking in the deflect or "whataboutism" stategy often used in their favor when it's a Trump or Antifa statement.

I think Brian is spot on. It's like the Trump eclipse story. If that was anyone else, and I mean political leader, no one would care, but because Trump is a bumbling doofus, it's a national story. Make fun and move on.

Remember how you felt when the right made fun or criticized everything Obama did. Didn't change your mind I'm guessing so don't expect it to for him either. Everything has become a childish game of trying to point who does what wrong constantly, and I mean by all sides.

I'm arguing that those aren't real. There's no way in God's green earth that the HRC campaign produced stars and bars pins. They are trolls or photoshop. So the whole premise is bullshit.

More deflection. I notice you seem to not want to answer the more pertinent question which was basically can we really expect to end racism by going at it with an attaching attitude, telling people they are bad and wrong and telling people them what to do.

No one said it will be the end of racism. Does sending $1 a day to unicef end world hunger? No, of course not, but it helps. Removing symbols that are meant to glorify a movement that left the Union in order to preserve slavery would be a good move as well.

And no one is deflecting. You started this part of the discussion with those idiotic troll buttons.

The buttons are not the issue. Let's get past that.

You still didn't answer the question.

brianlux · August 2017

Apparently, some of you are not listening to what I've said. It's not what most of you want to do, it's how you want to do it. If you bully, attack, ridicule, tell people they are bad/wrong, make demands etc. you will make far less progress than if you lead by example, educate, work out differences. Several of you must have issues with those strategies. That is your right.

Now I must go and be tortured by sitting in a chair with sharp instruments and drills in my mouth. Oh goodie.

Later, all.

PJ_Soul · August 2017

Jason P said:

I grew up associating the confederate flag with the most bad ass car ever produced

I grew up knowing how inappropriate that car was.

Gern Blansten · August 2017

brianlux said:

Apparently, some of you are not listening to what I've said. It's not what most of you want to do, it's how you want to do it. If you bully, attack, ridicule, tell people they are bad/wrong, make demands etc. you will make far less progress than if you lead by example, educate, work out differences. Several of you must have issues with those strategies. That is your right.

Now I must go and be tortured by sitting in a chair with sharp instruments and drills in my mouth. Oh goodie.

Later, all.

Leading by example would include removing statues of racist individuals that declared war against the United States.

PJ_Soul · August 2017

brianlux said:

Apparently, some of you are not listening to what I've said. It's not what most of you want to do, it's how you want to do it. If you bully, attack, ridicule, tell people they are bad/wrong, make demands etc. you will make far less progress than if you lead by example, educate, work out differences. Several of you must have issues with those strategies. That is your right.

Now I must go and be tortured by sitting in a chair with sharp instruments and drills in my mouth. Oh goodie.

Later, all.

I don't think anyone's missing your point or not hearing you Brian. I for one just don't believe that at this point being gentle is going to work at all. It certainly hasn't so far - things are just getting worse. I simply think 'going to battle' has become the only viable option at this point in America's journey.

mrussel1 · August 2017

brianlux said:

Apparently, some of you are not listening to what I've said. It's not what most of you want to do, it's how you want to do it. If you bully, attack, ridicule, tell people they are bad/wrong, make demands etc. you will make far less progress than if you lead by example, educate, work out differences. Several of you must have issues with those strategies. That is your right.

Now I must go and be tortured by sitting in a chair with sharp instruments and drills in my mouth. Oh goodie.

Later, all.

Apparently you are not articulating yourself clearly. If you're for the removal of statues, but in a deliberate way that preserves history, then I'm with you. If you're against the removal period, then I'm not. No one is in her arguing for bullying, ridiculing, "making demands", whatever that means.
The question as to whether they should be removed from public squares as a reverential monument? Yes, absolutely.

Should they be moved to a museum type area so they can be understood and put in context? Yes, absolutely.

Will it eradicate racism? No, of course not. Banning the swastika in Germany obviously didn't eliminate its glorification, but it made clear where the new German gov't stood.

Should people be bullied and ridiculed? Uh..maybe. If they are wearing khaki and white while carrying a shield and Confederate flag, then yeah...ridicule away.

PJ_Soul · August 2017

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

Apparently, some of you are not listening to what I've said. It's not what most of you want to do, it's how you want to do it. If you bully, attack, ridicule, tell people they are bad/wrong, make demands etc. you will make far less progress than if you lead by example, educate, work out differences. Several of you must have issues with those strategies. That is your right.

Now I must go and be tortured by sitting in a chair with sharp instruments and drills in my mouth. Oh goodie.

Later, all.

Apparently you are not articulating yourself clearly. If you're for the removal of statues, but in a deliberate way that preserves history, then I'm with you. If you're against the removal period, then I'm not. No one is in her arguing for bullying, ridiculing, "making demands", whatever that means.
The question as to whether they should be removed from public squares as a reverential monument? Yes, absolutely.

Should they be moved to a museum type area so they can be understood and put in context? Yes, absolutely.

Will it eradicate racism? No, of course not. Banning the swastika in Germany obviously didn't eliminate its glorification, but it made clear where the new German gov't stood.

Should people be bullied and ridiculed? Uh..maybe. If they are wearing khaki and white while carrying a shield and Confederate flag, then yeah...ridicule away.

What he said.

tempo_n_groove · August 2017

PJPOWER said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

CM189191 said:

brianlux said:

Why were these considered OK?

I'm thinking someone was just trolling. I doubt these people even knew that it was a Russian flag.

The irony is thick this morning.

This is kind of an old story, right?

Irony never gets old but it's sometimes lost.

Speaking of irony, did you see this?
https://mobile.twitter.com/UncleChangNYC/status/899373007621246976?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=https://www.youngcons.com/blm-protesters-confront-antifa-at-rally-for-wearing-masks-watch-how-guy-responds/
This is "new" irony!

I love it that everyone films it and never really participates.

"yeah man I was there, got great footage of the people jumping a guy"

PJPOWER · August 2017

tempo_n_groove said:

PJPOWER said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

CM189191 said:

brianlux said:

Why were these considered OK?

I'm thinking someone was just trolling. I doubt these people even knew that it was a Russian flag.

The irony is thick this morning.

This is kind of an old story, right?

Irony never gets old but it's sometimes lost.

Speaking of irony, did you see this?
https://mobile.twitter.com/UncleChangNYC/status/899373007621246976?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=https://www.youngcons.com/blm-protesters-confront-antifa-at-rally-for-wearing-masks-watch-how-guy-responds/
This is "new" irony!

I love it that everyone films it and never really participates.

"yeah man I was there, got great footage of the people jumping a guy"

What a narcissistic society it has become. Some people only see the world through their iPhone camera.

mrussel1 · August 2017

What the hell were they arguing about?

Go Beavers · August 2017

PJPOWER said:

tempo_n_groove said:

PJPOWER said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJPOWER said:

CM189191 said:

brianlux said:

Why were these considered OK?

I'm thinking someone was just trolling. I doubt these people even knew that it was a Russian flag.

The irony is thick this morning.

This is kind of an old story, right?

Irony never gets old but it's sometimes lost.

Speaking of irony, did you see this?
https://mobile.twitter.com/UncleChangNYC/status/899373007621246976?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=https://www.youngcons.com/blm-protesters-confront-antifa-at-rally-for-wearing-masks-watch-how-guy-responds/
This is "new" irony!

I love it that everyone films it and never really participates.

"yeah man I was there, got great footage of the people jumping a guy"

What a narcissistic society it has become. Some people only see the world through their iPhone camera.

"Let's not get involved" was always something I heard from old people.

Go Beavers · August 2017

Gern Blansten said:

It's amazing to me how the GOP (which is supposed to be this patriotic, pro-military, wrapped in the flag party) wants to endorse the confederate movement which took up arms AGAINST the United States.

Attempting to slow dwindling white privilege is pretty much central to the GOP agenda now.

The Confederacy - Erasing History

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