ponytd said:

fife said:

ponytd said:

Cliffy6745 said:

JC29856 said:

if you had too much to eat or drink, read the first 2 paragraphs and you will get relief.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/07/25/politics/john-mccain-floor-speech/index.html

And then tonight he votes for the bill tonight...

is there a bigger fraud in American politics?

They didn't vote on the bill. They voted on moving forward to debate both bills (the House version and Senate version) and to open the floor to other amendments and changes to put into those bills from both sides. The AHCA is still in effect. Nobody lost their health insurance last night. Will they come up with something better? I don't know. My guess is, nothing gets voted on and Obamacare will still be here the beginning of next year.

while I usually disagree with McCain, what he did yesterday was smart.  at the same time he voted to move forward with debating the bills, he also ripped into the bill and actually said that he would vote no to the current bill. 

personally, i think the AHCA is going to be around a very long time unless the R get more of a majority in both house and senate so hopefully, liberal come out in masses to vote. 

It might be around for a while. But it can't stay in it's current format. With so many insurers pulling out of the exchanges, eventually there will be none left for people to actually buy insurance from. They have to find a way to take the good parts of the AHCA and make the bad parts workable

cincybearcat said:

ponytd said:

fife said:

ponytd said:

Cliffy6745 said:

JC29856 said:

if you had too much to eat or drink, read the first 2 paragraphs and you will get relief.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/07/25/politics/john-mccain-floor-speech/index.html

And then tonight he votes for the bill tonight...

is there a bigger fraud in American politics?

They didn't vote on the bill. They voted on moving forward to debate both bills (the House version and Senate version) and to open the floor to other amendments and changes to put into those bills from both sides. The AHCA is still in effect. Nobody lost their health insurance last night. Will they come up with something better? I don't know. My guess is, nothing gets voted on and Obamacare will still be here the beginning of next year.

while I usually disagree with McCain, what he did yesterday was smart.  at the same time he voted to move forward with debating the bills, he also ripped into the bill and actually said that he would vote no to the current bill. 

personally, i think the AHCA is going to be around a very long time unless the R get more of a majority in both house and senate so hopefully, liberal come out in masses to vote. 

It might be around for a while. But it can't stay in it's current format. With so many insurers pulling out of the exchanges, eventually there will be none left for people to actually buy insurance from. They have to find a way to take the good parts of the AHCA and make the bad parts workable

I don't think the democrats never wanted or cared if Obamacare would work longterm.  They got exactly what they wanted....even if all insurers pull out and it fails miserably.  They got it in place, people to get use to it, and now every time someone wants to talk about health care reform, the top line is ALWAYS about how many people will be left off.  It was a brilliant thing to do.  If the republicans had been smart, they would have done something long ago...then the narrative whenever the Dems wanted to change it would be..."Dems adding 10 million to Health Care but at a cost of $99 gazzilian"... Dems won the Health Care battle for sure, and I dont see the repubs getting back in the game really.

cincybearcat said:

ponytd said:

fife said:

ponytd said:

Cliffy6745 said:

JC29856 said:

if you had too much to eat or drink, read the first 2 paragraphs and you will get relief.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/07/25/politics/john-mccain-floor-speech/index.html

And then tonight he votes for the bill tonight...

is there a bigger fraud in American politics?

They didn't vote on the bill. They voted on moving forward to debate both bills (the House version and Senate version) and to open the floor to other amendments and changes to put into those bills from both sides. The AHCA is still in effect. Nobody lost their health insurance last night. Will they come up with something better? I don't know. My guess is, nothing gets voted on and Obamacare will still be here the beginning of next year.

while I usually disagree with McCain, what he did yesterday was smart.  at the same time he voted to move forward with debating the bills, he also ripped into the bill and actually said that he would vote no to the current bill. 

personally, i think the AHCA is going to be around a very long time unless the R get more of a majority in both house and senate so hopefully, liberal come out in masses to vote. 

It might be around for a while. But it can't stay in it's current format. With so many insurers pulling out of the exchanges, eventually there will be none left for people to actually buy insurance from. They have to find a way to take the good parts of the AHCA and make the bad parts workable

I don't think the democrats never wanted or cared if Obamacare would work longterm.  They got exactly what they wanted....even if all insurers pull out and it fails miserably.  They got it in place, people to get use to it, and now every time someone wants to talk about health care reform, the top line is ALWAYS about how many people will be left off.  It was a brilliant thing to do.  If the republicans had been smart, they would have done something long ago...then the narrative whenever the Dems wanted to change it would be..."Dems adding 10 million to Health Care but at a cost of $99 gazzilian"... Dems won the Health Care battle for sure, and I dont see the repubs getting back in the game really.

I don't think the democrats never wanted or cared if Obamacare would work longterm.  They got exactly what they wanted....even if all insurers pull out and it fails miserably.  They got it in place, people to get use to it, and now every time someone wants to talk about health care reform, the top line is ALWAYS about how many people will be left off.  It was a brilliant thing to do.  If the republicans had been smart, they would have done something long ago...then the narrative whenever the Dems wanted to change it would be..."Dems adding 10 million to Health Care but at a cost of $99 gazzilian"... Dems won the Health Care battle for sure, and I dont see the repubs getting back in the game really.

I disagree with the first bolded part. Obama ran on it and seeing the disarray his election victory wreaked on the republicans, as they were sure Hillary was going to be the nominee, their game plan to oppose was out the window and they had no response, he went for it right out of the gate. The republicans were knocked back on their heels. Rather than participate in the formulation of the legislation, as Obama offered, they preferred to, "our number one job is to see this (black) president fail." The insurance companies and health care industries were offered the opportunity to participate in the formulation of the legislation and instead, followed McConnell's and Boehner's lead. That was their colossal mistake (Obama spent a year and a half soliciting input, made it a priority for his Administration. It wasn't a half baked, unthought known). They could have at least have acted like they had input before opposing the bill. Instead, they sour graped and didn't want the dems to have a "victory." It shouldn't have been a surprise as they did the same thing to President Clinton with his first budget, passed without one republican vote. Has anyone noticed how Romneycare is working exceptionally well in Massachusetts? If the republicans had been smart, they would have been part of the solution, tweaked it along the way and taken credit for it. 42MM uninsured in the alleged "greatest nation on earth" is and was wholly unacceptable. Its time the republicans got serious, told Trump to get lost and do what's right. Will they? No, of course not. But just wait until those Trump supporters lose their health insurance and get screwed over. The best bills, legislation and solutions generally come from bi-partisan cooperation and compromise. Mitch and John refused to play along. Thank them for the shit we're in today.

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

I will never understand why any Americans stand against universal healthcare, given all the examples from other countries that they could model such a system after so that it suits America in particular, and given how it would prevent people from losing their shirts just because they get sick, and make it so people can go see doctors when they don't have any cash or credit. Are these pro-private-health-insurance people brainwashed or what? How can any right-minded human being be in favour of a system that allows private companies to profit from restricting coverage??? It just makes no sense to me.

They don't like it because they don't trust anything government run, and with somewhat good reason. Everything run by government is so innefecient. They picture the Dr office running like the DMV.
My brother just had back surgery last month. It has been an 18-month battle of constant pain for him because it was a worker's comp issue (state-run worker's comp).
his back doctor immediately said what needed to be done, but the state threw 18 months of delays and needless, cheaper procedures in his way. The state law allows 10 days to respond, but on multiple occasions it was over 90 days before recieving a response. The MO is to just deny everything and wait for you to appeal, stalling as much as they can along the way. Shortly into this process he had to hire an attorney to send threatening letters because they were violating the law at every turn, but didn't really help. The only thing it's going to help is a financial lawsuit for compensation after he's done.
But even after the surgery he was supposed to get in home nurse/therapy visits twice a week. No home visits were made for over 2 months.
Had this not had to go through workers comp, his surgery would have been within about 4-6 weeks of his accident. Instead he was bedridden and in constant pain for 18 months and his recovery is in jeopardy because everything has to go through the state. It breaks my heart because he has 4 kids from 1 year to 14 yrs, and he will have missed out on 2 years of their life all because some people working for the government don't want to do their job (or they see their primary job as saving money and not helping people).
Now I know that has nothing to do with Obamacare, but it is examples like that that make many think people will literally die waiting for care if the government is in charge.
The VA is another example where veterans did die awaiting care, and that is just government doing a small scale healthcare.
i for one think it could be done, and for a lot less than the current plans. But because of cases like this I know the fears are legitimate, and if it isn't put together correctly and run properly it would be just as bad as the VA or working with worker's comp.

What McCain did was hard. What Murkowski and Collins did was much harder.

jeffbr said:

dignin said:

What McCain did was hard. What Murkowski and Collins did was much harder.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/28/16055132/murkowski-collins-mccain?utm_campaign=vox.social&utm_medium=social&utm_content=ezraklein&utm_source=facebook

I agree. Those two have been steadfast in standing in opposition to their party and trying to do the right thing for their constituents. And both have been threatened by fat, white Republicans from the south. What is it with these doughy hillbillies that they feel the need to challenge these strong northern women? Is it still a mason-dixon line thing? Or a bible-belt thing? Blake Farenthold threatens Collins with a duel. Buddy Carter wants to snatch a knot in their ass (whatever the fuck that hillbilly colloquialism translates to in English).