America's Gun Violence

unsung said:

Statistics.

tbergs said:

ponytd said:

tbergs said:

ponytd said:

HesCalledDyer said:

dudeman said:

HesCalledDyer said:

riley540 said:

tbergs said:

riley540 said:

New to this conversation  

i grew up in Anchorage Alaska. Now I, myself have shot guns and everything, but have no desire to ever own one, but I will say that I grew up around a lot of responsible gun owners. Growing up, I was taught how to safely handle a gun instead of being taught to fear a gun. I understand the outrage because bad people have easy access to guns, and it needs to stop. But I also full heatedly want to keep guns in the hands of my fellow Alaskans who's use them responsibly. I know all kinds of people who like to collect fire arms, people that like to go hunting, people that go to the range for fun, and even people who just like to have one in their car when they go out at night. All very good people. My girlfriend recently said she wants to get education on how to properly handle a gun and I fully support her. We can all co-exist. Not all gun owners are bad 

True, people can co exist, but guns and people have been incompatible for a few hundred years already. Stricter gun laws will possibly lower incidents of shootings, but we're never going to end the problem until one of us ceases to exist. All of our efforts are merely bandaids on an already severed head and there's lots of blood to soak up these days.

I just fear that if guns are harder to get, then only the out laws are going to have guns. Might as well just keep the good people armed at this point. 

Depends on what you mean by "harder to get."

I find it absolutely outrageous that any person in this country who wants to operate a motor vehicle has to go through a basic training class, a written test, be placed on a provisional period, pass another written test, and a physical driving test to do so and no one bats an eye.  But mention you want to do the same type of process with guns and oh my lord it's the end of the free fucking world.

Tons of people are killed each year in cars. You have to be 18 to buy a gun. Driving and owning a car is not a constitutionally protected right.

We've been over this a lot in this thread. Driving cars and the regulations that apply are not comparable to gun ownership in this country. 

And apparently you're still missing the point.  When did I say anything that infringed upon the 2nd Amendment rights of the people?  I didn't.  Nothing I said would keep anyone who legally wanted to own a gun from owning a gun.  You wouldn't want someone driving a car who isn't trained properly on how to drive and who doesn't understand the rules of the road.  Just asking for better regulations and licensing.
The right is so hell-bent on notions of a "strong vetting process" except for when it comes to muh gunz.

I agree with that. I'd be behind a mandatory firearms training and/or safety course before you can legally purchase a gun. It's not infringing on anyone's right to own one, unless you prove that you're unsafe.

What about age restrictions on usage?

For buying a gun? they can be kept the same as they are now.  Here in TN, you have to be 18 to purchase a shotgun or hunting rifle, but 21 for handguns. If you're under whatever age is set, but like to go hunting, currently you can't legally purchase a gun, but you have to pass a hunter safety course before you can go and have to have a hunting license. Wouldn't be much of a change for that, except you'd throw in a gun safety course with that hunting safety course (although many incorporate that in there already) for children.

No, I'm referring to when they can actually use a firearm, with or without a parent's consent. We don't let 7 year olds drive a car, but they can shoot guns. Fucked up much? Hey, don't try to drive this large dangerous machine because it's illegal, instead hold this nice compact handgun or rifle and aim at that target. All because the constitution says you have the right to bear arms. This isn't colonial times, no reason kids should be shooting guns outside of hunting after proper training. It's actually amazing the things we outlaw for kids under 18, but they can shoot guns.

CM189191 said:

Jason P said:

Go Beavers said:

Jason P said:

dignin said:

Why are we not calling the shooter a terrorist?

Is a terrorist organization taking credit for the attack?  Less then 12 hours in.  Should wait and see

Perhaps it was the Sons of the Harpies?

The accepted definition of terrorist now is that you only need to be "influenced" by a terrorist group. Of course that depends on what religion the perpetrator is.  

that's your accepted belief 

accepted belief?

is that like an alternative fact?

Under current United States law, set forth in the USA PATRIOT Act, acts of domestic terrorism are those which:
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended –
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States."

this is a picture of a duck

cincybearcat said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

sad day today.

this shooter was a troubled man. he was a gun owner who beat his wife. statistics say that people who own guns and are domestic abusers are more likely to have anger issues and are more capable of doing this kind of thing.

true the guy supported sanders. sanders has condemned it. most of us on the left have condemned it. this is not how you make your point. i dislike scalise a great deal, but i do not want harm to come to him. i saw an article that republican congressmen are receiving threats now. one received an email that said "one down, 213 to go." this is not how you make the change you want to see.

that said, i can understand where this guy is coming from. trump lost the popular vote by 3 million people. more people voted for democrats for the house and senate than republicans, yet the republicans hold both houses due to gerrymandering. trump won with the assistance of the russians and comey. the gop is wanting to take his health care away while cutting taxes for the rich and cutting benefits for the poor. i understand the guy is angry and i understand how it feels when congress does what it wants and does not listen to the people. he probably has zero faith in the electoral process. probably felt that even it the dems win by a greater margin in 2018 they will still lose because the districts are rigged in favor of republicans. he probably felt helpless and pissed off as a result. you have fox news and their pundits talking about second amendment remedies last year, and this guy went ahead and did it. he probably felt like he had no other recourse and wanted to make a statement. that to me is what terrorism is. this guy is a white, leftist terrorist.

i feel bad for those that died and hope that the wounded can fully recover.

i am not supporting this person at all. i am just saying i can understand his frustration with the system. 

I appreciate your honesty in this, and I read this 2x before commenting....but I have no idea how you can understand where he is coming from.  I don't. I don't understand the need to shoot people I disagree with. I find it absurd actually.  So I personally have no idea where this guy was coming from and don't think he should get any level of support/sympathy....can't think of the right word. I honestly can't for the life of me figure how you could write this about this guy.

cincybearcat said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

sad day today.

this shooter was a troubled man. he was a gun owner who beat his wife. statistics say that people who own guns and are domestic abusers are more likely to have anger issues and are more capable of doing this kind of thing.

true the guy supported sanders. sanders has condemned it. most of us on the left have condemned it. this is not how you make your point. i dislike scalise a great deal, but i do not want harm to come to him. i saw an article that republican congressmen are receiving threats now. one received an email that said "one down, 213 to go." this is not how you make the change you want to see.

that said, i can understand where this guy is coming from. trump lost the popular vote by 3 million people. more people voted for democrats for the house and senate than republicans, yet the republicans hold both houses due to gerrymandering. trump won with the assistance of the russians and comey. the gop is wanting to take his health care away while cutting taxes for the rich and cutting benefits for the poor. i understand the guy is angry and i understand how it feels when congress does what it wants and does not listen to the people. he probably has zero faith in the electoral process. probably felt that even it the dems win by a greater margin in 2018 they will still lose because the districts are rigged in favor of republicans. he probably felt helpless and pissed off as a result. you have fox news and their pundits talking about second amendment remedies last year, and this guy went ahead and did it. he probably felt like he had no other recourse and wanted to make a statement. that to me is what terrorism is. this guy is a white, leftist terrorist.

i feel bad for those that died and hope that the wounded can fully recover.

i am not supporting this person at all. i am just saying i can understand his frustration with the system. 

I appreciate your honesty in this, and I read this 2x before commenting....but I have no idea how you can understand where he is coming from.  I don't. I don't understand the need to shoot people I disagree with. I find it absurd actually.  So I personally have no idea where this guy was coming from and don't think he should get any level of support/sympathy....can't think of the right word. I honestly can't for the life of me figure how you could write this about this guy.

gimmesometruth27 said:

cincybearcat said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

sad day today.

this shooter was a troubled man. he was a gun owner who beat his wife. statistics say that people who own guns and are domestic abusers are more likely to have anger issues and are more capable of doing this kind of thing.

true the guy supported sanders. sanders has condemned it. most of us on the left have condemned it. this is not how you make your point. i dislike scalise a great deal, but i do not want harm to come to him. i saw an article that republican congressmen are receiving threats now. one received an email that said "one down, 213 to go." this is not how you make the change you want to see.

that said, i can understand where this guy is coming from. trump lost the popular vote by 3 million people. more people voted for democrats for the house and senate than republicans, yet the republicans hold both houses due to gerrymandering. trump won with the assistance of the russians and comey. the gop is wanting to take his health care away while cutting taxes for the rich and cutting benefits for the poor. i understand the guy is angry and i understand how it feels when congress does what it wants and does not listen to the people. he probably has zero faith in the electoral process. probably felt that even it the dems win by a greater margin in 2018 they will still lose because the districts are rigged in favor of republicans. he probably felt helpless and pissed off as a result. you have fox news and their pundits talking about second amendment remedies last year, and this guy went ahead and did it. he probably felt like he had no other recourse and wanted to make a statement. that to me is what terrorism is. this guy is a white, leftist terrorist.

i feel bad for those that died and hope that the wounded can fully recover.

i am not supporting this person at all. i am just saying i can understand his frustration with the system. 

I appreciate your honesty in this, and I read this 2x before commenting....but I have no idea how you can understand where he is coming from.  I don't. I don't understand the need to shoot people I disagree with. I find it absurd actually.  So I personally have no idea where this guy was coming from and don't think he should get any level of support/sympathy....can't think of the right word. I honestly can't for the life of me figure how you could write this about this guy.

i did not say he deserves any support or sympathy. i was expressing empathy and trying to see where he may have been coming from and what his motive was. big difference.

where did i say i understand his need to shoot people he disagrees with? my words in my post, to your words in yours, is quite a stretch.

all i said is i understood his anger and frustration with a system that is working against him. i also called him a white, leftist terrorist, because that is what he was.