Multiple Fatalities- Ariana Grande Concert

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tbergs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

RYME said:

Who was this guy who blew himself up while killing 22 children, & injuring dozens more?  What were his motives?  Where did he just get back from?  Who is his dad & brother affiliated with?
Never assume that it is Radical terrists?
They do it in the name of Allah Akbar for crying out loud. What group of people gets into​ trucks and runs over parades of people? Who shoots up gay night-clubs?
Those damn Amish, you just got to keep a sharp eye on them.  There out of control.
Terrorist sympathizers, and radical Islam deniers just amazes me.

there's no such thing as a terrorist sympathizer. that's just right wing nutty buzzwords. and no one is denying that radical islam exists. 

And to be clear, it may not have been a truck, but a crazy man just ran over a bunch of people in NYC. Maybe he was influenced by what he had seen in Germany though.

I think many naturally gravitate to blaming ISIS for these incidents as soon as they happen, but that's more common in this current state of the world. It isn't always true and should never be the automatic ruling before all the facts are obtained.

yes, none of us are surprised when it happens to be ISIS or an ISIS supporter, but kneejerk is never the best reaction. people have stopped waiting for actual facts, because news agencies just want to be first with a correct guess rather than real vetted factual info. 

I"m sorry but if I hear sucide bomber I automatically think muslim terrorist.  

yeah, I'm talking even earlier than that. 

"there was an explosion at a public event"

the first question is usually: "was it a terrorist?", instead of what it should be, "what happened?". 

HughFreakingDillon said:

tbergs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

tbergs said:

PJ_Soul said:

I think all the other terrible things that happen to people and animals is part of an argument against God. The things that aren't atrocities determined by free will. Drought, famine, horrible disease, devastating natural disasters, human nature ... Seriously, I don't understand how anyone who actually believes in God doesn't hate his guts.

I'll go back to this argument again. For the most part parents have children that they want to be decent human beings, but it doesn't always happen because they only have the ability to create life. Why can't the same be true of a god? They create life, but can't dictate how that life is lived or how it acts because we are born with our own thoughts and minds.

As I've said, I don't specifically believe in god, but a higher being, and I don't blame it for the shitty actions of humans. That's on us to figure out.

True. Also, God or any random higher being one might imagine can blow jelly beans out of volcanoes and make it rain trumpets, but can't thread a golden needle with the hair of all mankind. In other words, literally anything can be said about God/a higher being - I don't see how any statement is more valid than another when it is all completely made up out of thin air.

watching the Simpsons Treehouse of Horror episode "The Genesis Tub" put alot of this in perspective.

Whatever works for you. Doesn't matter to me whether someone believes or thinks it's all bullshit. I was Lutheran, then I was atheist and now I'm more of a higher being type believer. Imagine if all digital media was destroyed and lost regarding some of the major events that have happened in the last 100 years and then fast forward 2000 years from now and all you have are some written accounts that vary from a Fox News to a CNN perspective. Where's the middle ground? Hard to believe anything you can't touch, taste, hear, smell or see.

Anyway, I'm going to go eat some Jelly Bean and wait for the next volcano explosion  

I'm somewhere in the middle between atheist and agnostic. it depends on the day, really. usually lean atheist, but then if I have time to sit and think too much about how fucking big the universe is and how it got created and how and why and all that, I can't help but think there was some sort of manufacturer to all of this. 

but the christian god I was taught about as a kid? NOPE. 

So who manufactured the manufacturer?

brianlux said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

brianlux said:

Not even knowing the difference between Amish and Arab leaves me little hope for humanity.

I'm pretty sure he knew the difference.

OK, but why Amish?  It's hard to take  this place seriously which I why I mostly don't.

I'm pretty sure he was making reference to Amish being peaceful and 'at one' with the earth (versus the comparison).

Banshee would have you believe the Amish aren't so peaceful lol.

I've been spending most of my life living in an Amish paradise

Jason P said:

I've been spending most of my life living in an Amish paradise

Great tune!

and around and around we go: yes,it is faith-based. what these fuckers believe is true islam. 

let me say this: take the worst, most violent and terrible portions of the bible, you know, the ones they don't preach about in church because they aren't to be taken literally, not now anyway, and create a faction, let's call it CHRISIS, and have them perpetrating these atrocities across the globe. 

Do you not think that peaceful, loving, modern Christians would be telling you that what CHRISIS is, is not true Christianity? And you'd have Christian haters out there calling them Christian terrorists. It would be the same damn thing. Cue the "no christian would ever do that" response. 

Bomb the fuck out of Christian nations for decades, killing thousands and thousands of innocent civilians and calling it collateral damage and we'll see about that. 

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tbergs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

tbergs said:

PJ_Soul said:

I think all the other terrible things that happen to people and animals is part of an argument against God. The things that aren't atrocities determined by free will. Drought, famine, horrible disease, devastating natural disasters, human nature ... Seriously, I don't understand how anyone who actually believes in God doesn't hate his guts.

I'll go back to this argument again. For the most part parents have children that they want to be decent human beings, but it doesn't always happen because they only have the ability to create life. Why can't the same be true of a god? They create life, but can't dictate how that life is lived or how it acts because we are born with our own thoughts and minds.

As I've said, I don't specifically believe in god, but a higher being, and I don't blame it for the shitty actions of humans. That's on us to figure out.

True. Also, God or any random higher being one might imagine can blow jelly beans out of volcanoes and make it rain trumpets, but can't thread a golden needle with the hair of all mankind. In other words, literally anything can be said about God/a higher being - I don't see how any statement is more valid than another when it is all completely made up out of thin air.

watching the Simpsons Treehouse of Horror episode "The Genesis Tub" put alot of this in perspective.

Whatever works for you. Doesn't matter to me whether someone believes or thinks it's all bullshit. I was Lutheran, then I was atheist and now I'm more of a higher being type believer. Imagine if all digital media was destroyed and lost regarding some of the major events that have happened in the last 100 years and then fast forward 2000 years from now and all you have are some written accounts that vary from a Fox News to a CNN perspective. Where's the middle ground? Hard to believe anything you can't touch, taste, hear, smell or see.

Anyway, I'm going to go eat some Jelly Bean and wait for the next volcano explosion  

I'm somewhere in the middle between atheist and agnostic. it depends on the day, really. usually lean atheist, but then if I have time to sit and think too much about how fucking big the universe is and how it got created and how and why and all that, I can't help but think there was some sort of manufacturer to all of this. 

but the christian god I was taught about as a kid? NOPE. 

So who manufactured the manufacturer?

the basic idea behind agnosticism is "I have no fucking clue".

That is just one of the things I don't get about some religious folks (not you... or mostly not you. I think agnosticism is almost as odd as straight up religion, in a way). It seems that many religious people feel that the existence of the universe is proof of God, because they think something with a purpose, apparently, had to have created the universe. Even if they are willing to acknowledge the big bang theory, they feel that God had to have initiated the big bang at the very least, because something can't appear out of nothing.... I just don't understand why they think God had to have at least initiated the universe, but don't seem to consider who initiated God. And if they think nobody had to - that God had no beginning and comes from infinite roots - then why wouldn't that same idea be just as easily applicable to the universe? Doesn't make any sense. I just don't understand why people humour the idea of God at all, considering that none of it makes any sense. There is no rhyme or reason behind the belief in the existence of God, or in agnosticism either, IMO. But anyway, it's not like I think I'm going to recruit any Atheists here, lol. I'm just saying!

HughFreakingDillon said:

and around and around we go: yes,it is faith-based. what these fuckers believe is true islam. 

let me say this: take the worst, most violent and terrible portions of the bible, you know, the ones they don't preach about in church because they aren't to be taken literally, not now anyway, and create a faction, let's call it CHRISIS, and have them perpetrating these atrocities across the globe. 

Do you not think that peaceful, loving, modern Christians would be telling you that what CHRISIS is, is not true Christianity? And you'd have Christian haters out there calling them Christian terrorists. It would be the same damn thing. Cue the "no christian would ever do that" response. 

Bomb the fuck out of Christian nations for decades, killing thousands and thousands of innocent civilians and calling it collateral damage and we'll see about that. 

How about no religion at all?

How about people figure out there is no omnipresent deity floating around somewhere, there is no afterlife, and learn to appreciate this life and how valuable it is for everyone getting an opportunity at it?

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

and around and around we go: yes,it is faith-based. what these fuckers believe is true islam. 

let me say this: take the worst, most violent and terrible portions of the bible, you know, the ones they don't preach about in church because they aren't to be taken literally, not now anyway, and create a faction, let's call it CHRISIS, and have them perpetrating these atrocities across the globe. 

Do you not think that peaceful, loving, modern Christians would be telling you that what CHRISIS is, is not true Christianity? And you'd have Christian haters out there calling them Christian terrorists. It would be the same damn thing. Cue the "no christian would ever do that" response. 

Bomb the fuck out of Christian nations for decades, killing thousands and thousands of innocent civilians and calling it collateral damage and we'll see about that. 

How about no religion at all?

How about people figure out there is no omnipresent deity floating around somewhere, there is no afterlife, and learn to appreciate this life and how valuable it is for everyone getting an opportunity at it?

I personally don't think God or an an omnipresent deity or any higher power and the afterlife have anything to do with each other. I'm an Atheist, but I have no reason to completely discount some kind of afterlife simply because of the scientific fact that energy doesn't die. Given how little we know about consciousness, I am at least somewhat open to the idea that consciousness and energy could somehow be tied together, and we just don't know the science of it (yet). I very seriously doubt that there is an afterlife, but that is a completely separate topic from the existence of God for me, and not one that has anything to do with faith.

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tbergs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

tbergs said:

PJ_Soul said:

I think all the other terrible things that happen to people and animals is part of an argument against God. The things that aren't atrocities determined by free will. Drought, famine, horrible disease, devastating natural disasters, human nature ... Seriously, I don't understand how anyone who actually believes in God doesn't hate his guts.

I'll go back to this argument again. For the most part parents have children that they want to be decent human beings, but it doesn't always happen because they only have the ability to create life. Why can't the same be true of a god? They create life, but can't dictate how that life is lived or how it acts because we are born with our own thoughts and minds.

As I've said, I don't specifically believe in god, but a higher being, and I don't blame it for the shitty actions of humans. That's on us to figure out.

True. Also, God or any random higher being one might imagine can blow jelly beans out of volcanoes and make it rain trumpets, but can't thread a golden needle with the hair of all mankind. In other words, literally anything can be said about God/a higher being - I don't see how any statement is more valid than another when it is all completely made up out of thin air.

watching the Simpsons Treehouse of Horror episode "The Genesis Tub" put alot of this in perspective.

Whatever works for you. Doesn't matter to me whether someone believes or thinks it's all bullshit. I was Lutheran, then I was atheist and now I'm more of a higher being type believer. Imagine if all digital media was destroyed and lost regarding some of the major events that have happened in the last 100 years and then fast forward 2000 years from now and all you have are some written accounts that vary from a Fox News to a CNN perspective. Where's the middle ground? Hard to believe anything you can't touch, taste, hear, smell or see.

Anyway, I'm going to go eat some Jelly Bean and wait for the next volcano explosion  

I'm somewhere in the middle between atheist and agnostic. it depends on the day, really. usually lean atheist, but then if I have time to sit and think too much about how fucking big the universe is and how it got created and how and why and all that, I can't help but think there was some sort of manufacturer to all of this. 

but the christian god I was taught about as a kid? NOPE. 

So who manufactured the manufacturer?

the basic idea behind agnosticism is "I have no fucking clue".

That is just one of the things I don't get about some religious folks (not you... or mostly not you. I think agnosticism is almost as odd as straight up religion, in a way). It seems that many religious people feel that the existence of the universe is proof of God, because they think something with a purpose, apparently, had to have created the universe. Even if they are willing to acknowledge the big bang theory, they feel that God had to have initiated the big bang at the very least, because something can't appear out of nothing.... I just don't understand why they think God had to have at least initiated the universe, but don't seem to consider who initiated God. And if they think nobody had to - that God had no beginning and comes from infinite roots - then why wouldn't that same idea be just as easily applicable to the universe? Doesn't make any sense. I just don't understand why people humour the idea of God at all, considering that none of it makes any sense. There is no rhyme or reason behind the belief in the existence of God, or in agnosticism either, IMO. But anyway, it's not like I think I'm going to recruit any Atheists here, lol. I'm just saying!

why would my personal philophy of saying "I don't know" be odd? You don't know. nobody does. theists purport to "know". my brother says he has a fucking relationship with god, but he can't articulate what that means, but somehow it's my fault for not being enlightened enough. so does his wife and their son. proving the existence or nonexistence of god is impossible. just like I can't prove the sun has a gooey nougat centre. 

again, I don't believe in the christian god. I find that too implausible. not to mention fucked up. But I can't say for sure if there was some type of energy out there that did it all, whether it was by design or some crazy natural occurence, or we're all living in some fucking simulated video game. 

as you said, of course it makes no sense. none of it does to our puny brains. a friend of mine in elementary school dared me to ask his mom how god got there. So I did. She said "he's always been there". I followed up with "but he must have arrived at some point", and she literally said the exact same thing again; "he's always been there". My friend was laughing. I felt like i was talking to a non-thinking robot, just spewing out the answer it was programmed to give. 

that was literally the beginning of my journey away from organized religion.