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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 41,952
    edited March 2017
    my2hands said:

    BS44325 said:

    my2hands said:

    simple question to my Trump friends here... especially to my wacky weed buddy BS...

    how can you take Trump serious about anything after years of the birther and birth certificate ridiculousness? seriously

    I don't take him seriously. You still seem to be confused on my feeling towards him. I have a list of things he says and/or does that drives me absolutely crazy. That doesn't mean though that I don't think he is strategically smarter then most people give him credit for.
    200 pages in and you sure do come across as a Trump supporter... maybe you just like to spar and play devils advocate?
    He's a neocon that identifies with Bannon's playbook. Trump is thus a puppet to implement a neocon agenda. But Trump don't do politics well.
    Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on
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  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Sounds like Nunes has shared info with the White House before it was shared in committee. That has caused Schiff to talk about an independent investigation. Nunes has really fucked this up, because people aren't buying his bullshit anymore. First he was more concerned about the leaks than the Trump/Russia collusion. Now he's actively subverting the process. And now Schiff is saying that the evidence they've seen for the collusion goes beyond circumstantial: "I don’t want to go into specifics, but I will say that there is evidence that is not circumstantial and is very much worthy of investigation." Fuck Trump.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    Let me say this very clearly, for all of us to soak in for a second.

    Fact: Donald Trump (The President) and many key members of his circle are currently under FBI investigation for possible collusion with a foreign government to undermine our Presidential Election.

    Hawks should be foaming at the mouth, instead they are rolling over like puppies to get their belly scratched.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 41,952
    jeffbr said:

    Sounds like Nunes has shared info with the White House before it was shared in committee. That has caused Schiff to talk about an independent investigation. Nunes has really fucked this up, because people aren't buying his bullshit anymore. First he was more concerned about the leaks than the Trump/Russia collusion. Now he's actively subverting the process. And now Schiff is saying that the evidence they've seen for the collusion goes beyond circumstantial: "I don’t want to go into specifics, but I will say that there is evidence that is not circumstantial and is very much worthy of investigation." Fuck Trump.

    The coverup begins. And this is what will ultimately get Trump impeached. Sure hope the White House is preserving evidence. Does Trump plan on holding a news conference to clear the air? Maybe preemptively release the last ten years of his tax returns? The White House petition for him to do so is over a million. Where's the transparency?
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  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,642
    my2hands said:

    Let me say this very clearly, for all of us to soak in for a second.

    Fact: Donald Trump (The President) and many key members of his circle are currently under FBI investigation for possible collusion with a foreign government to undermine our Presidential Election.

    Hawks should be foaming at the mouth, instead they are rolling over like puppies to get their belly scratched.

    Hawks or ostriches?


    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    PJ_Soul said:

    my2hands said:

    Let me say this very clearly, for all of us to soak in for a second.

    Fact: Donald Trump (The President) and many key members of his circle are currently under FBI investigation for possible collusion with a foreign government to undermine our Presidential Election.

    Hawks should be foaming at the mouth, instead they are rolling over like puppies to get their belly scratched.

    Hawks or ostriches?


    Excellent point
  • mfc2006
    mfc2006 HTOWN Posts: 37,489
    jeffbr said:

    Sounds like Nunes has shared info with the White House before it was shared in committee. That has caused Schiff to talk about an independent investigation. Nunes has really fucked this up, because people aren't buying his bullshit anymore. First he was more concerned about the leaks than the Trump/Russia collusion. Now he's actively subverting the process. And now Schiff is saying that the evidence they've seen for the collusion goes beyond circumstantial: "I don’t want to go into specifics, but I will say that there is evidence that is not circumstantial and is very much worthy of investigation." Fuck Trump.

    Well said.
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  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    I
    rgambs said:

    BS44325 said:

    my2hands said:

    simple question to my Trump friends here... especially to my wacky weed buddy BS...

    how can you take Trump serious about anything after years of the birther and birth certificate ridiculousness? seriously

    I don't take him seriously. You still seem to be confused on my feeling towards him. I have a list of things he says and/or does that drives me absolutely crazy. That doesn't mean though that I don't think he is strategically smarter then most people give him credit for.
    That's exactly the definition of taking him seriously though, isn't it?
    Hmmm...not exactly but maybe. I guess what I mean is that I still think he makes up a lot of shit as he goes along. He always has but seems to do it fearlessly with the idea that with enough time he can figure out what the correct play is in any situation. I also still don't see him as an ideologue from a right/left perspective even though he seems to be governing to the right for now. So when I hear him blather in a debate or in a press conference or in a tweet I don't take him seriously but I also believe there is method to the madness.

    Example:
    Immigration
    Most of the campaign I thought his rhetoric on the issue was ridiculous but I recognized how that would help him to the nomination. Specifically he was even harsh on the "dreamers" which I never took seriously because most people don't want to punish kids. In the long run that position is not serious. Now fast forward to his Presidency which was clearly benefited by his tough talk on immigration and what does he do? He still pushes the wall. He pushes the travel ban. But he leaves DACA in place and makes no move on the dreamers. He has convinced his base that he is the toughest SOB on immigration and yet got the hardcore right to move towards the middle on both the "dreamers" and "normalization" for those already in the US. You can see the Art of the Deal at play in the lead up to comprehensive immigration reform. If the right believes that he will prevent the next 14 million illegal immigrants then they will accept normalization of the current illegals provided they have not been convicted of a crime. I never took him seriously because his rhetoric was foolish and I don't think he had a master plan BUT he used his rhetoric to his advantage and is now making something out of it. His bill won't be any different then the gang of 8's but it will be accepted based on security first.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,876
    edited March 2017
    BS44325 said:

    mrussel1 said:

    BS44325 said:

    mrussel1 said:

    BS44325 said:

    mrussel1 said:

    Cliffy6745 said:

    Wonder what kind of singing voice Manafort has, because he is gonna be singing at the top of his lungs

    I don't know if you rat out the Russians.. that seems to be a risky proposition.
    BS44325 said:

    mfc2006 said:

    BS44325 said:

    Cards being put on the table

    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/devin-nunes-donald-trump-surveillance-obama-236366

    You hear that? That's the sound of the other shoe dropping.

    "Nunes said the surveillance appeared to be legal but that he was concerned because it was not related to the FBI’s investigation into Russia’s meddling in the election and was widely disseminated across the intelligence community."

    We don't have all the facts yet. I think we can all agree on that.
    Exactly. That is the whole point. Trump might still be proven right on surveillance.
    Proven right the he was wiretapped by Obama? Seems like we closed that book already.
    The book was closed on the literal interpretation of the tweet but not on the substance that people within the Obama administration were conducting surveillance of the Trump administration via a backdoor of incidental collection and then selectively leaked said information illegally for nefarious purposes.

    http://freebeacon.com/politics/obama-admin-loyalists-government-insiders-sabotage-trump-white-house/

    Most of you support this type of duplicitous game as members of the #resistance but rest assured it is watergate 2.0 if true. People don't seem to be comprehending how seriously this damages your country. With a new found hate for Putin members of the previous administration decided to act like him. When the story is finally told this will be the Obama and Democratic party legacy.



    Addendum - What's crazy is that Trump had this information all along but he and Nunez waited for the massive over reach by the left post-Comey that they knew would come. Most of you just can't help yourselves. Brilliance.
    Watergate 2.0.. you're drinking the crazy juice. Watergate was a break in, an ILLEGAL wiretap and a cover up. Using Director Comey's testimony as a source, which of those things happened to implicate Obama?
    Well...

    They didn't have digital data collection through the NSA back in the 70's but based on what we heard from Nunes today it could be heading that way. What we know is that the NSA has digital records of everything but the law prevents this information on Americans from being accessed and disseminated. Nunes just suggested that this information while collected legally through "incidental" means was not actually to be used or unmasked for unrelated intelligence reports. The illegal unmasking, usage, and sharing of the "incidental" info is the digital equivalent of an illegal wiretap. He or she who participated in this illegal usage and sharing is breaking the law and faces penalty of 10 years in prison. The next question is who ordered the usage and sharing? How high does this go? Were the reports Nunes mentioned presented to President Obama? What did he know and when did he know it?
    Watergate 2.0.
    Give me a fucking break, you are seriously grasping and hoping that Obama is implicated but knowing what we know after 8 years of ongoing investigations into his administration by the GOP... I'd say those chances are pretty slim. You may disagree with his politics but it's hard to impune his integrity.

    Onto the the nuanced part.. yes the unmasking should be investigated, but that's a double edged sword. Any testimony that details that a Trump Transition employee was picked up in the incidental collection will have to deal with who that transition employee was talking to.. and therefore why was that person under surveillance? And according to Nunes, it wasn't about Russia. So therefore... the Trump team was talking to someone that some intelligence service had reason to believe needed to be watched and received a FISA warrant to do such. Not your everyday Joe I'm sure.

    Second, here's the fun part. Let's take Flynn for example. If he was picked up in monitoring then no evidence in that monitoring could be used in a prosecution or further investigation. That's a 4th amendment violation... HOWEVER, information collected in that monitoring about OTHERS can absolutely be used. For example, if Flynn said "Jared Kushner needs to move a million off shore into a Russian account because he doesn't want to pay taxes", then that's a high enough standard to create a wiretap warrant on Kushner.

    So once information starts to get revealed, it will get ugly for everyone frankly, other than Obama. First, he's out of office. Second, Nunes was very clear it was legal. Case closed on the Obama side. Let's see how long Trump wants this story to run, as it continues to overshadow his SCOTUS story.
    Grasping at straws? Your whole post is based on a massive number of assumptions the first being that all this surveillance was on the up and up. Of course Obama is awesome and all the people in his administration is awesome and it is beyond all craziness to suggest that these awesome people who have already shown a history of bending the law to inappropriately spy on congressmen and journalists would do anything wrong with their intelligence powers. Every statement you have ever made on this issue has essentially been "well if their was surveillance then obviously it was legal and with good reason". Sorry buddy but that just ain't obvious and nobody should believe it. Also to suggest that I am hoping Obama gets caught up in this is plain ridiculous...who could hope for that? But to suggest it's impossible is also just as ridiculous. Let's not forget that the AMT used to be a place that was against this kind of surveillance. When Bush put many of these rules in place most here said "absolutely not!", "he's hitler", "he'll abuse this power and spy on citizens and/or his opponents!". We don't know what info Nunes has yet but we know for a fact that Flynn was spied on and that info pertaining to that was illegally leaked. That is an abuse of intelligence gathering power. Somebody in the Obama administration did that. Now it looks like there is more.
    I'm using Nunes own words as the basis of my argument. He said it was legal and incidental. That's the assumption I'm starting from..
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    my2hands said:

    BS44325 said:

    my2hands said:

    simple question to my Trump friends here... especially to my wacky weed buddy BS...

    how can you take Trump serious about anything after years of the birther and birth certificate ridiculousness? seriously

    I don't take him seriously. You still seem to be confused on my feeling towards him. I have a list of things he says and/or does that drives me absolutely crazy. That doesn't mean though that I don't think he is strategically smarter then most people give him credit for.
    200 pages in and you sure do come across as a Trump supporter... maybe you just like to spar and play devils advocate?
    No. I wouldn't waste my time with that. I certainly wanted Trump to beat Hillary because I thought he was the piece of shit with more potential upside in this shitty world but I am not sure if that should be considered full throated support. He was my last choice of all the republican candidates but I completely new he was going to win the primary the minute he went down that escalator and I was pretty sure he was going to beat Hillary even during his darkest days. Now that he is President things are going for the most part as I expected...just like his campaign it is a mess but a mess with potential for success. Top that all off with conservative governance and I am generally satisfied even though I still think the world is going to hell in a handbasket. I thought it was always going that way. Trump is the Hail Mary pass and for some reason the democrats would rather sack him then see him throw a completion.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,876
    Ruh-oh.. Cnn is reporting that trump officials coordinated with Russians on the release of emails relating to Clinton's campaign...

    Ruh-oh DJT!
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,535
    What factual evidence is there that we're going to hell in a basket?
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    jeffbr said:

    Sounds like Nunes has shared info with the White House before it was shared in committee. That has caused Schiff to talk about an independent investigation. Nunes has really fucked this up, because people aren't buying his bullshit anymore. First he was more concerned about the leaks than the Trump/Russia collusion. Now he's actively subverting the process. And now Schiff is saying that the evidence they've seen for the collusion goes beyond circumstantial: "I don’t want to go into specifics, but I will say that there is evidence that is not circumstantial and is very much worthy of investigation." Fuck Trump.

    This isn't subverting the process. If the President and/or his people are being illegally unmasked by the Obama admin and/or Obama admin holdovers to create public chaos then there are national security implications and the President needs to know immediately. There is no rule that info has to go to Schiff first. The other shoe is dropping.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,876
    BS44325 said:

    jeffbr said:

    Sounds like Nunes has shared info with the White House before it was shared in committee. That has caused Schiff to talk about an independent investigation. Nunes has really fucked this up, because people aren't buying his bullshit anymore. First he was more concerned about the leaks than the Trump/Russia collusion. Now he's actively subverting the process. And now Schiff is saying that the evidence they've seen for the collusion goes beyond circumstantial: "I don’t want to go into specifics, but I will say that there is evidence that is not circumstantial and is very much worthy of investigation." Fuck Trump.

    This isn't subverting the process. If the President and/or his people are being illegally unmasked by the Obama admin and/or Obama admin holdovers to create public chaos then there are national security implications and the President needs to know immediately. There is no rule that info has to go to Schiff first. The other shoe is dropping.
    The shoe is dropping at this moment on CNN. They are essentially confirming that the Trump team was being investigating for coordinating with the Russians, possibly on the release of the DNC emails. Nunes was technically right and now we know why he was rushing to the WH.
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    LOCK THEM ALL UP, LOCK THEM ALL UP, LOCK THEM ALL UP!!!

    :)
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,436
    US Officials: Info suggests Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    edited March 2017
    I can't wait for Morning Joe, my boy Scarborough might take a shit right on the set
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 41,952
    Go Beavers said:

    What factual evidence is there that we're going to hell in a basket?

    It's once more into the breach, comrade.
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  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,436
    my2hands said:

    I can't wait for Morning Joe, my boy Scarborough might take a shit right on the set

    I listen to morning joe actually on youtube haha.

    Scarborough is playing up american politics like it's wrestling. Should have dramatic music under everything he says.

    Cringey dude. And he and that woman, Mika, is playing their parts. She always has to be all worried about "How can we... have a president who does things like this?" while Joe is all "Let me tell you people how it works in Wahsington, because I was there fighting Bill Clinton in 94 and I know everyone".

    But, still nice to have on while working.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    mrussel1 said:

    BS44325 said:

    jeffbr said:

    Sounds like Nunes has shared info with the White House before it was shared in committee. That has caused Schiff to talk about an independent investigation. Nunes has really fucked this up, because people aren't buying his bullshit anymore. First he was more concerned about the leaks than the Trump/Russia collusion. Now he's actively subverting the process. And now Schiff is saying that the evidence they've seen for the collusion goes beyond circumstantial: "I don’t want to go into specifics, but I will say that there is evidence that is not circumstantial and is very much worthy of investigation." Fuck Trump.

    This isn't subverting the process. If the President and/or his people are being illegally unmasked by the Obama admin and/or Obama admin holdovers to create public chaos then there are national security implications and the President needs to know immediately. There is no rule that info has to go to Schiff first. The other shoe is dropping.
    The shoe is dropping at this moment on CNN. They are essentially confirming that the Trump team was being investigating for coordinating with the Russians, possibly on the release of the DNC emails. Nunes was technically right and now we know why he was rushing to the WH.
    Shoes dropping everywhere! Just saw Schiff...lot of hinting but not "confirming". So far as vague as Nunes. It's a total mud fight and Trump loves mud fights!
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