9 Dead in Shooting at Black Church in SC

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Comments

  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    rgambs said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Go Beavers said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    tbergs said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I couldn't see authorities not taking all precautions to ensure Mushroom Head's safety in prison.

    Prison officials likely don't want the aftermath of a high profile loser such as this dying in their custody.

    Not that anyone would probably care. Dahmer didn't create much of a stir.

    Either way, he needs to rot in solitary. Gen pop allows protection from gangs and other comforts they smuggle in.
    Most cheered when Dahmer met his end.

    Think of his situation: he's placed in a cell with a cell mate. The guy who killed him (his cell mate) likely thought he had no choice. Are you sleeping soundly at night with that freak in the same locked cell?
    How do you figure most cheered? I also always think it's a sad display of the darker side of people when they stand outside a prison when someone is executed. I know it's not how Dahmer went, but it just made me think of that.
    I agree. It's gruesome.
    Some people are just happy that justice is served and show up to demonstrate their support for such justice as well as pay respect to the deceased. It's closure. Pure and simple.

    It's tough for some to see it that way- especially if they concern themselves too much for a cannibal kid killer. They should try looking at it from a slightly more pragmatic approach vs a philosophical ideal.
    Hahaha only Thirty would try to spin tailgating an execution into a pragmatic paying of respect to the deceased!
    Hahaha like you spin looting and rioting part of an honourable display against a nation wide inherently corrupt and racist police force?

    What I said isn't far fetched at all. Some of those intimately affected by horrific crimes need that type of closure, RG. You do know the majority of people want the DP right?
    "a nationwide inherently corrupt and racist police force"? are you fucking kidding me?
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Go Beavers said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    tbergs said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I couldn't see authorities not taking all precautions to ensure Mushroom Head's safety in prison.

    Prison officials likely don't want the aftermath of a high profile loser such as this dying in their custody.

    Not that anyone would probably care. Dahmer didn't create much of a stir.

    Either way, he needs to rot in solitary. Gen pop allows protection from gangs and other comforts they smuggle in.
    Most cheered when Dahmer met his end.

    Think of his situation: he's placed in a cell with a cell mate. The guy who killed him (his cell mate) likely thought he had no choice. Are you sleeping soundly at night with that freak in the same locked cell?
    How do you figure most cheered? I also always think it's a sad display of the darker side of people when they stand outside a prison when someone is executed. I know it's not how Dahmer went, but it just made me think of that.
    I agree. It's gruesome.
    Some people are just happy that justice is served and show up to demonstrate their support for such justice as well as pay respect to the deceased. It's closure. Pure and simple.

    It's tough for some to see it that way- especially if they concern themselves too much for a cannibal kid killer. They should try looking at it from a slightly more pragmatic approach vs a philosophical ideal.
    some people just have a sick idea of what support for the justice system constitutes.

    whether that meant you or not is up for you to decide.
    Not a great try.

    Public displays of support aren't only there for your schema, Hugh. They are there for all facets of life. The majority of people support the DP. If one can show up to a vigil... they can just as easily show up to an execution signifying the final chapter to an obscene story.

    Way better than showing up to a parole hearing to protest the release of a heinous mutant every two years dontcha think?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    I googled "death penalty in canada", hoping to come up with stats to back up 30's claim. I came across this. I read the entire thing. Does anything stand out to anyone else in the differences between those writing pro-DP and those writing against it?
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    edited January 2017
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    I googled "death penalty in canada", hoping to come up with stats to back up 30's claim. I came across this. I read the entire thing. Does anything stand out to anyone else in the differences between those writing pro-DP and those writing against it?

    What did you come across?

    Was it this?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/07/09/death-penalty-canada_n_10908940.html
    Post edited by Thirty Bills Unpaid on
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    shit. thought I posted the link. here it is:

    http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/should-canada-bring-back-the-death-penalty
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    I googled "death penalty in canada", hoping to come up with stats to back up 30's claim. I came across this. I read the entire thing. Does anything stand out to anyone else in the differences between those writing pro-DP and those writing against it?

    What did you come across?

    Was it this?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/07/09/death-penalty-canada_n_10908940.html
    yeah, I recalled that the amount of folks polled was higher than 50%, but couldn't recall the exact number. and that's fine. I can't argue with numbers (although the polling prior to the US election gives me pause). However, just because 15 people in a crowd are beating on a suspected criminal, and 1 other person is crying for them to stop, does that automatically make the 15 correct?
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    I read it. What are you getting at, Hugh?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I read it. What are you getting at, Hugh?

    I perceived a very tangible difference in the style of writing.
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    I personally am interested in the unsealing of Roof's competency hearing. I'm curious to hear more of his reasoning process than the snippets we've heard so far.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I read it. What are you getting at, Hugh?

    I perceived a very tangible difference in the style of writing.
    Oh. Got it. Stupid people want the DP and smart people don't. Is that what you wanted to suggest? Let's look at a few:

    From the proponent side:

    — As a physician, it goes against all I believe in to endorse taking a human life. As a mother, however, I would have no trouble pulling the lever on the hangman’s trap door if anyone did to my sons what happened to Tori Stafford or Kirsten French or the victims of Russell Williams. The people who do these types of crime are not fixable — they need to be humanely “put down” for the good of society.

    * Yup. Funny how people change their tune once directly impacted (such as Petit or in this current SC case- the reverend).

    — In 1975, Alan Craig MacDonald murdered a Nova Scotia police officer and the taxi driver who witnessed the murder. MacDonald was convicted of both crimes, however after serving only 12 years of what was supposed to be a life sentence, he was released on parole. Six months later, he brutally murdered 21 year-old university student Lynda Shaw. If Macdonald was executed for his original crimes, Shaw would still be alive today.

    * Well shucks. Deterrent argument is proven right again.

    From the opponent side:

    — Once someone dies, their soul is freed to be born again. Therefore, giving the death penalty to even the most-depraved of murderers is still the wrong thing to do. These defective examples of humanity should be locked up securely for as long as possible.

    * lol

    — The death penalty is society’s revenge to try to remove the guilt of failure — the failure to value the gift of life, the failure to respect the value of others, the failure of fellow humans to be a human. Keep in mind the Japanese proverb: Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves. Where do we dig and when do we stop?

    * Deep, man. Deep.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I read it. What are you getting at, Hugh?

    I perceived a very tangible difference in the style of writing.
    Oh. Got it. Stupid people want the DP and smart people don't. Is that what you wanted to suggest? Let's look at a few:

    From the proponent side:

    — As a physician, it goes against all I believe in to endorse taking a human life. As a mother, however, I would have no trouble pulling the lever on the hangman’s trap door if anyone did to my sons what happened to Tori Stafford or Kirsten French or the victims of Russell Williams. The people who do these types of crime are not fixable — they need to be humanely “put down” for the good of society.

    * Yup. Funny how people change their tune once directly impacted (such as Petit or in this current SC case- the reverend).

    — In 1975, Alan Craig MacDonald murdered a Nova Scotia police officer and the taxi driver who witnessed the murder. MacDonald was convicted of both crimes, however after serving only 12 years of what was supposed to be a life sentence, he was released on parole. Six months later, he brutally murdered 21 year-old university student Lynda Shaw. If Macdonald was executed for his original crimes, Shaw would still be alive today.

    * Well shucks. Deterrent argument is proven right again.

    From the opponent side:

    — Once someone dies, their soul is freed to be born again. Therefore, giving the death penalty to even the most-depraved of murderers is still the wrong thing to do. These defective examples of humanity should be locked up securely for as long as possible.

    * lol

    — The death penalty is society’s revenge to try to remove the guilt of failure — the failure to value the gift of life, the failure to respect the value of others, the failure of fellow humans to be a human. Keep in mind the Japanese proverb: Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves. Where do we dig and when do we stop?

    * Deep, man. Deep.
    of course there were examples like that on both sides, as well as some intelligent examples on both sides, it just seemed to me, that an overwhelming majority of the comments on the pro-DP side, yes, sounded, well, not as well-read, let's say, as the anti-DP side. That could have been the way the comments were chosen as a bias from the editors, for sure, it was just an observation I made.

    you can cherry pick comments to suppor your narrative all you want. I was speaking to the comments as a whole.
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I read it. What are you getting at, Hugh?

    I perceived a very tangible difference in the style of writing.
    Oh. Got it. Stupid people want the DP and smart people don't. Is that what you wanted to suggest? Let's look at a few:

    From the proponent side:

    — As a physician, it goes against all I believe in to endorse taking a human life. As a mother, however, I would have no trouble pulling the lever on the hangman’s trap door if anyone did to my sons what happened to Tori Stafford or Kirsten French or the victims of Russell Williams. The people who do these types of crime are not fixable — they need to be humanely “put down” for the good of society.

    * Yup. Funny how people change their tune once directly impacted (such as Petit or in this current SC case- the reverend).

    — In 1975, Alan Craig MacDonald murdered a Nova Scotia police officer and the taxi driver who witnessed the murder. MacDonald was convicted of both crimes, however after serving only 12 years of what was supposed to be a life sentence, he was released on parole. Six months later, he brutally murdered 21 year-old university student Lynda Shaw. If Macdonald was executed for his original crimes, Shaw would still be alive today.

    * Well shucks. Deterrent argument is proven right again.

    From the opponent side:

    — Once someone dies, their soul is freed to be born again. Therefore, giving the death penalty to even the most-depraved of murderers is still the wrong thing to do. These defective examples of humanity should be locked up securely for as long as possible.

    * lol

    — The death penalty is society’s revenge to try to remove the guilt of failure — the failure to value the gift of life, the failure to respect the value of others, the failure of fellow humans to be a human. Keep in mind the Japanese proverb: Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves. Where do we dig and when do we stop?

    * Deep, man. Deep.
    of course there were examples like that on both sides, as well as some intelligent examples on both sides, it just seemed to me, that an overwhelming majority of the comments on the pro-DP side, yes, sounded, well, not as well-read, let's say, as the anti-DP side. That could have been the way the comments were chosen as a bias from the editors, for sure, it was just an observation I made.

    you can cherry pick comments to suppor your narrative all you want. I was speaking to the comments as a whole.
    I didn't need to cherry pick- the comments were as well-written on one side as they were with the other. Your problem was with content versus delivery and your bias shrouded your judgement.

    Come on, man. Your argument hasn't boiled down to 'if you support the DP you are stupid' has it?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    edited January 2017
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I read it. What are you getting at, Hugh?

    I perceived a very tangible difference in the style of writing.
    Oh. Got it. Stupid people want the DP and smart people don't. Is that what you wanted to suggest? Let's look at a few:

    From the proponent side:

    — As a physician, it goes against all I believe in to endorse taking a human life. As a mother, however, I would have no trouble pulling the lever on the hangman’s trap door if anyone did to my sons what happened to Tori Stafford or Kirsten French or the victims of Russell Williams. The people who do these types of crime are not fixable — they need to be humanely “put down” for the good of society.

    * Yup. Funny how people change their tune once directly impacted (such as Petit or in this current SC case- the reverend).

    — In 1975, Alan Craig MacDonald murdered a Nova Scotia police officer and the taxi driver who witnessed the murder. MacDonald was convicted of both crimes, however after serving only 12 years of what was supposed to be a life sentence, he was released on parole. Six months later, he brutally murdered 21 year-old university student Lynda Shaw. If Macdonald was executed for his original crimes, Shaw would still be alive today.

    * Well shucks. Deterrent argument is proven right again.

    From the opponent side:

    — Once someone dies, their soul is freed to be born again. Therefore, giving the death penalty to even the most-depraved of murderers is still the wrong thing to do. These defective examples of humanity should be locked up securely for as long as possible.

    * lol

    — The death penalty is society’s revenge to try to remove the guilt of failure — the failure to value the gift of life, the failure to respect the value of others, the failure of fellow humans to be a human. Keep in mind the Japanese proverb: Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves. Where do we dig and when do we stop?

    * Deep, man. Deep.
    of course there were examples like that on both sides, as well as some intelligent examples on both sides, it just seemed to me, that an overwhelming majority of the comments on the pro-DP side, yes, sounded, well, not as well-read, let's say, as the anti-DP side. That could have been the way the comments were chosen as a bias from the editors, for sure, it was just an observation I made.

    you can cherry pick comments to suppor your narrative all you want. I was speaking to the comments as a whole.
    I didn't need to cherry pick- the comments were as well-written on one side as they were with the other. Your problem was with content versus delivery and your bias shrouded your judgement.

    Come on, man. Your argument hasn't boiled down to 'if you support the DP you are stupid' has it?
    nope. it was a simple observation that I already admitted was possibly a bias on the count of the editors of that website. it wasn't a bias on my part at all. I thought all the comments were pro-DP, until I got to the lower section of opponents. that's when I noticed a difference in delivery. it stood out.

    sure there's a stereotype that people who are pro-DP/pro-vengeance justice are of the less intelligent sort. no different than your stereotype of all trump supporters being slack jawed one-toothed yokels.
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,185
    I support the DP in some cases. I have changed by views a bit though given cases like the West Memphis Three, etc.

    I think the DP should only be an option when the defendant pleads guilty and/or there is direct indisputable evidence that they are guilty.

    DP should be swift after conviction. I think that would make it more of a deterrent.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Gern Blansten said:

    I support the DP in some cases. I have changed by views a bit though given cases like the West Memphis Three, etc.

    I think the DP should only be an option when the defendant pleads guilty and/or there is direct indisputable evidence that they are guilty.

    DP should be swift after conviction. I think that would make it more of a deterrent.

    but it's been proven time and again that it's not a deterrent. where the DP should be involved, as many proponents have stated, in extreme cases like serial murderers, pre meditated murders of children, etc, do you really think those types would have stopped to think about the consequences of their actions?

    now, if people are suggesting the DP for those convicted of lesser crimes (2nd degree murder, etc), then that's a whole other ball of wax.
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Gern Blansten
    Gern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 22,185
    edited January 2017
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    Gern Blansten said:

    I support the DP in some cases. I have changed by views a bit though given cases like the West Memphis Three, etc.

    I think the DP should only be an option when the defendant pleads guilty and/or there is direct indisputable evidence that they are guilty.

    DP should be swift after conviction. I think that would make it more of a deterrent.

    but it's been proven time and again that it's not a deterrent. where the DP should be involved, as many proponents have stated, in extreme cases like serial murderers, pre meditated murders of children, etc, do you really think those types would have stopped to think about the consequences of their actions?

    now, if people are suggesting the DP for those convicted of lesser crimes (2nd degree murder, etc), then that's a whole other ball of wax.
    It hasn't been a deterrent the way it is currently used. But, if instead of years of appeals, etc., the convicted was executed soon after conviction I believe it would work.

    Also...in cases of serial murderers and the like the DP turns more into a victims rights argument. I would want to see that fucker die.
    Post edited by Gern Blansten on
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I read it. What are you getting at, Hugh?

    I perceived a very tangible difference in the style of writing.
    Oh. Got it. Stupid people want the DP and smart people don't. Is that what you wanted to suggest? Let's look at a few:

    From the proponent side:

    — As a physician, it goes against all I believe in to endorse taking a human life. As a mother, however, I would have no trouble pulling the lever on the hangman’s trap door if anyone did to my sons what happened to Tori Stafford or Kirsten French or the victims of Russell Williams. The people who do these types of crime are not fixable — they need to be humanely “put down” for the good of society.

    * Yup. Funny how people change their tune once directly impacted (such as Petit or in this current SC case- the reverend).

    — In 1975, Alan Craig MacDonald murdered a Nova Scotia police officer and the taxi driver who witnessed the murder. MacDonald was convicted of both crimes, however after serving only 12 years of what was supposed to be a life sentence, he was released on parole. Six months later, he brutally murdered 21 year-old university student Lynda Shaw. If Macdonald was executed for his original crimes, Shaw would still be alive today.

    * Well shucks. Deterrent argument is proven right again.

    From the opponent side:

    — Once someone dies, their soul is freed to be born again. Therefore, giving the death penalty to even the most-depraved of murderers is still the wrong thing to do. These defective examples of humanity should be locked up securely for as long as possible.

    * lol

    — The death penalty is society’s revenge to try to remove the guilt of failure — the failure to value the gift of life, the failure to respect the value of others, the failure of fellow humans to be a human. Keep in mind the Japanese proverb: Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves. Where do we dig and when do we stop?

    * Deep, man. Deep.
    of course there were examples like that on both sides, as well as some intelligent examples on both sides, it just seemed to me, that an overwhelming majority of the comments on the pro-DP side, yes, sounded, well, not as well-read, let's say, as the anti-DP side. That could have been the way the comments were chosen as a bias from the editors, for sure, it was just an observation I made.

    you can cherry pick comments to suppor your narrative all you want. I was speaking to the comments as a whole.
    I didn't need to cherry pick- the comments were as well-written on one side as they were with the other. Your problem was with content versus delivery and your bias shrouded your judgement.

    Come on, man. Your argument hasn't boiled down to 'if you support the DP you are stupid' has it?
    nope. it was a simple observation that I already admitted was possibly a bias on the count of the editors of that website. it wasn't a bias on my part at all. I thought all the comments were pro-DP, until I got to the lower section of opponents. that's when I noticed a difference in delivery. it stood out.

    sure there's a stereotype that people who are pro-DP/pro-vengeance justice are of the less intelligent sort. no different than your stereotype of all trump supporters being slack jawed one-toothed yokels.
    I thought my stereotype of Trump supporters was more or less fact lol!

    For ease of understanding... let's keep context the same when making comparisons to stereotypes, okay?

    Proponents: dummies with hatred in their hearts typically listening to Hank Williams Jr and very angry. Capitalists too.

    Opponents: unshowered, wearing Birkenstocks, driving VW vans, and singing of love in a beatnik manner with their friends that have figured life out better than anyone.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    Gern Blansten said:

    I support the DP in some cases. I have changed by views a bit though given cases like the West Memphis Three, etc.

    I think the DP should only be an option when the defendant pleads guilty and/or there is direct indisputable evidence that they are guilty.

    DP should be swift after conviction. I think that would make it more of a deterrent.

    but it's been proven time and again that it's not a deterrent. where the DP should be involved, as many proponents have stated, in extreme cases like serial murderers, pre meditated murders of children, etc, do you really think those types would have stopped to think about the consequences of their actions?

    now, if people are suggesting the DP for those convicted of lesser crimes (2nd degree murder, etc), then that's a whole other ball of wax.
    No.

    It's never been proven time and again it's not a deterrent. If it was employed in more than 0.0006 percent of all muder cases... we could definitively state- one way or another- whether it served as a deterrent or not.

    I'm not inclined to test the idea, but as JeffBR consistently asserts, in one regard... it does serve as a deterrent given the killer can't kill again (just like in that example pointed out to you three posts or so ago... and many other times I might add).
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    Gern Blansten said:

    I support the DP in some cases. I have changed by views a bit though given cases like the West Memphis Three, etc.

    I think the DP should only be an option when the defendant pleads guilty and/or there is direct indisputable evidence that they are guilty.

    DP should be swift after conviction. I think that would make it more of a deterrent.

    but it's been proven time and again that it's not a deterrent. where the DP should be involved, as many proponents have stated, in extreme cases like serial murderers, pre meditated murders of children, etc, do you really think those types would have stopped to think about the consequences of their actions?

    now, if people are suggesting the DP for those convicted of lesser crimes (2nd degree murder, etc), then that's a whole other ball of wax.
    No.

    It's never been proven time and again it's not a deterrent. If it was employed in more than 0.0006 percent of all muder cases... we could definitively state- one way or another- whether it served as a deterrent or not.

    I'm not inclined to test the idea, but as JeffBR consistently asserts, in one regard... it does serve as a deterrent given the killer can't kill again (just like in that example pointed out to you three posts or so ago... and many other times I might add).
    that's not a deterrent. that's prevention.

    de·ter·rent
    dəˈtərənt/
    noun
    1.
    a thing that discourages or is intended to discourage someone from doing something.
    synonyms: disincentive, discouragement, damper, curb, check, restraint; More
    adjective
    1.
    able or intended to deter.
    "the deterrent effect of heavy prison sentences"

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-about-deterrence-and-death-penalty

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/2200

    now here is a "the DP is a detterent" article that states no actual facts, just suppositions

    http://deathpenaltycurriculum.org/student/c/about/arguments/argument1a.htm

    find me any 2 studies that experts agree, with stats to back it up, that murder rates would decrease if the DP were in effect.
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    Gern Blansten said:

    I support the DP in some cases. I have changed by views a bit though given cases like the West Memphis Three, etc.

    I think the DP should only be an option when the defendant pleads guilty and/or there is direct indisputable evidence that they are guilty.

    DP should be swift after conviction. I think that would make it more of a deterrent.

    but it's been proven time and again that it's not a deterrent. where the DP should be involved, as many proponents have stated, in extreme cases like serial murderers, pre meditated murders of children, etc, do you really think those types would have stopped to think about the consequences of their actions?

    now, if people are suggesting the DP for those convicted of lesser crimes (2nd degree murder, etc), then that's a whole other ball of wax.
    No.

    It's never been proven time and again it's not a deterrent. If it was employed in more than 0.0006 percent of all muder cases... we could definitively state- one way or another- whether it served as a deterrent or not.

    I'm not inclined to test the idea, but as JeffBR consistently asserts, in one regard... it does serve as a deterrent given the killer can't kill again (just like in that example pointed out to you three posts or so ago... and many other times I might add).
    that's not a deterrent. that's prevention.

    de·ter·rent
    dəˈtərənt/
    noun
    1.
    a thing that discourages or is intended to discourage someone from doing something.
    synonyms: disincentive, discouragement, damper, curb, check, restraint; More
    adjective
    1.
    able or intended to deter.
    "the deterrent effect of heavy prison sentences"

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-about-deterrence-and-death-penalty

    http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/2200

    now here is a "the DP is a detterent" article that states no actual facts, just suppositions

    http://deathpenaltycurriculum.org/student/c/about/arguments/argument1a.htm

    find me any 2 studies that experts agree, with stats to back it up, that murder rates would decrease if the DP were in effect.
    The entire point is moot.

    We could never actually state one way or another whether the DP is a deterrent or not given its current and historical application. I only countered what you suggested stating that you cannot declare 'it is proven to not be a deterrent '. Such a statement is inaccurate.

    I wish to clarify that my position doesn't stem from a deterrent standpoint.
    "My brain's a good brain!"

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