Canadian Politics Redux

PJ_Soul · October 2016

lukin2006 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Just in case anyone is interested... teen killer, Kelly Ellard, is pregnant while serving a life sentence. The situation is calling for a policy review regarding inmates and visitations.

The 'life sentence', as demonstrated in this case, isn't actually a sentence for life in Canada (that's just tough talk). Many think she will be released in 2017 when she comes up for parole again. Reena Virk's family isn't going to fight the parole applications anymore.

The father? Another convict currently incarcerated.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/bc-killer-kelly-ellards-prison-pregnancy-spurs-calls-for-policy-review/ar-AAjm4ok?li=AAggFp5&ocid=edgsp
Yeah, I read that...shakes head

Yeah, really disgusting. I had no idea that she was allowed enough freedom for this to happen, with a fellow criminal no less. And wtf is going to happen to the baby??? Is the system going to actually let this sociopath raise it but releasing her at her next parole hearing?? Some are talking about how they hope her having a baby will make her rethink her ways... Uh, yeah right! She'll simply fuck up another life - her kid's. I will be horrified if she is allowed out of prison to raise this poor baby.

lukin2006 · October 2016

PJ_Soul said:

lukin2006 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Just in case anyone is interested... teen killer, Kelly Ellard, is pregnant while serving a life sentence. The situation is calling for a policy review regarding inmates and visitations.

The 'life sentence', as demonstrated in this case, isn't actually a sentence for life in Canada (that's just tough talk). Many think she will be released in 2017 when she comes up for parole again. Reena Virk's family isn't going to fight the parole applications anymore.

The father? Another convict currently incarcerated.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/bc-killer-kelly-ellards-prison-pregnancy-spurs-calls-for-policy-review/ar-AAjm4ok?li=AAggFp5&ocid=edgsp
Yeah, I read that...shakes head
Yeah, really disgusting. I had no idea that she was allowed enough freedom for this to happen, with a fellow criminal no less. And wtf is going to happen to the baby??? Is the system going to actually let this sociopath raise it but releasing her at her next parole hearing?? Some are talking about how they hope her having a baby will make her rethink her ways... Uh, yeah right! She'll simply fuck up another life - her kid's. I will be horrified if she is allowed out of prison to raise this poor baby.

I'm not overly up on the prison system ... it seems to me I thought some female prisons were equipped for the possibility of a pregnancy and particular wards for these types of cases, but I believe it was only allowed until the baby was beyond the breastfeeding stage...but this privilege could be reserved for minimum security institutions...

PJ_Soul · October 2016

lukin2006 said:

PJ_Soul said:

lukin2006 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Just in case anyone is interested... teen killer, Kelly Ellard, is pregnant while serving a life sentence. The situation is calling for a policy review regarding inmates and visitations.

The 'life sentence', as demonstrated in this case, isn't actually a sentence for life in Canada (that's just tough talk). Many think she will be released in 2017 when she comes up for parole again. Reena Virk's family isn't going to fight the parole applications anymore.

The father? Another convict currently incarcerated.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/bc-killer-kelly-ellards-prison-pregnancy-spurs-calls-for-policy-review/ar-AAjm4ok?li=AAggFp5&ocid=edgsp
Yeah, I read that...shakes head
Yeah, really disgusting. I had no idea that she was allowed enough freedom for this to happen, with a fellow criminal no less. And wtf is going to happen to the baby??? Is the system going to actually let this sociopath raise it but releasing her at her next parole hearing?? Some are talking about how they hope her having a baby will make her rethink her ways... Uh, yeah right! She'll simply fuck up another life - her kid's. I will be horrified if she is allowed out of prison to raise this poor baby.
I'm not overly up on the prison system ... it seems to me I thought some female prisons were equipped for the possibility of a pregnancy and particular wards for these types of cases, but I believe it was only allowed until the baby was beyond the breastfeeding stage...but this privilege could be reserved for minimum security institutions...

Yes, there are at least some women's prisons set up for this to that the babies can breastfeed and bond with their mothers when they are very young, but as you say, babies can't be raised in prison long term. So my worry is that the parole board will release her so that she can be a mother.... And I don't think that it is at all safe to let her out of prison. The chick gets pregnant from a convicted gang member when she is in prison, just imagine who her friends will be on the outside. I can't see her becoming Suzie homemaker or a productive member of society at all. I think she is sociopath through and through. Hell, she might have actually done this on purpose specifically because she knows that pregnant women and young mothers are often given lenience.

lukin2006 · October 2016

PJ_Soul said:

lukin2006 said:

PJ_Soul said:

lukin2006 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Just in case anyone is interested... teen killer, Kelly Ellard, is pregnant while serving a life sentence. The situation is calling for a policy review regarding inmates and visitations.

The 'life sentence', as demonstrated in this case, isn't actually a sentence for life in Canada (that's just tough talk). Many think she will be released in 2017 when she comes up for parole again. Reena Virk's family isn't going to fight the parole applications anymore.

The father? Another convict currently incarcerated.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/bc-killer-kelly-ellards-prison-pregnancy-spurs-calls-for-policy-review/ar-AAjm4ok?li=AAggFp5&ocid=edgsp
Yeah, I read that...shakes head
Yeah, really disgusting. I had no idea that she was allowed enough freedom for this to happen, with a fellow criminal no less. And wtf is going to happen to the baby??? Is the system going to actually let this sociopath raise it but releasing her at her next parole hearing?? Some are talking about how they hope her having a baby will make her rethink her ways... Uh, yeah right! She'll simply fuck up another life - her kid's. I will be horrified if she is allowed out of prison to raise this poor baby.
I'm not overly up on the prison system ... it seems to me I thought some female prisons were equipped for the possibility of a pregnancy and particular wards for these types of cases, but I believe it was only allowed until the baby was beyond the breastfeeding stage...but this privilege could be reserved for minimum security institutions...
Yes, there are at least some women's prisons set up for this to that the babies can breastfeed and bond with their mothers when they are very young, but as you say, babies can't be raised in prison long term. So my worry is that the parole board will release her so that she can be a mother.... And I don't think that it is at all safe to let her out of prison. The chick gets pregnant from a convicted gang member when she is in prison, just imagine who her friends will be on the outside. I can't see her becoming Suzie homemaker or a productive member of society at all. I think she is sociopath through and through. Hell, she might have actually done this on purpose specifically because she knows that pregnant women and young mothers are often given lenience.

She should serve her full term, did not realize she was coming up for parole so soon ... mother with baby, what are the odds the parole board keep her locked up?

PJ_Soul · October 2016

lukin2006 said:

PJ_Soul said:

lukin2006 said:

PJ_Soul said:

lukin2006 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Just in case anyone is interested... teen killer, Kelly Ellard, is pregnant while serving a life sentence. The situation is calling for a policy review regarding inmates and visitations.

The 'life sentence', as demonstrated in this case, isn't actually a sentence for life in Canada (that's just tough talk). Many think she will be released in 2017 when she comes up for parole again. Reena Virk's family isn't going to fight the parole applications anymore.

The father? Another convict currently incarcerated.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/bc-killer-kelly-ellards-prison-pregnancy-spurs-calls-for-policy-review/ar-AAjm4ok?li=AAggFp5&ocid=edgsp
Yeah, I read that...shakes head
Yeah, really disgusting. I had no idea that she was allowed enough freedom for this to happen, with a fellow criminal no less. And wtf is going to happen to the baby??? Is the system going to actually let this sociopath raise it but releasing her at her next parole hearing?? Some are talking about how they hope her having a baby will make her rethink her ways... Uh, yeah right! She'll simply fuck up another life - her kid's. I will be horrified if she is allowed out of prison to raise this poor baby.
I'm not overly up on the prison system ... it seems to me I thought some female prisons were equipped for the possibility of a pregnancy and particular wards for these types of cases, but I believe it was only allowed until the baby was beyond the breastfeeding stage...but this privilege could be reserved for minimum security institutions...
Yes, there are at least some women's prisons set up for this to that the babies can breastfeed and bond with their mothers when they are very young, but as you say, babies can't be raised in prison long term. So my worry is that the parole board will release her so that she can be a mother.... And I don't think that it is at all safe to let her out of prison. The chick gets pregnant from a convicted gang member when she is in prison, just imagine who her friends will be on the outside. I can't see her becoming Suzie homemaker or a productive member of society at all. I think she is sociopath through and through. Hell, she might have actually done this on purpose specifically because she knows that pregnant women and young mothers are often given lenience.
She should serve her full term, did not realize she was coming up for parole so soon ... mother with baby, what are the odds the parole board keep her locked up?

I think she's been up for parole for a long time. She just hasn't been granted it yet. Yup, this is something new for her to present to the board... pretty clever I suppose. God I hate that psycho. She's just the worst.

HughFreakingDillon · October 2016

she should be kept locked up and her daughter put in foster care, or with family if suitable/available. you don't let out a convicted killer (or any convict, really) early because they managed to get knocked up.

PJ_Soul · October 2016

HughFreakingDillon said:
she should be kept locked up and her daughter put in foster care, or with family if suitable/available. you don't let out a convicted killer (or any convict, really) early because they managed to get knocked up.

No, but I find myself just assuming that is exactly what the parole board will do because I have no faith in it. On the other hand, maybe they will use their brains and look at this pregnancy as a reason why they absolutely should NOT let her out. I mean, to me, getting knocked up with a convicted gang member while you are in prison is the definition of being a really terrible and irresponsible decision-maker and a rotten human being.
Can you imagine having this woman as your mother??? Talk about humiliating.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · October 2016

I think... if past history has revealed anything... parole boards in Canada are very eager to release people convicted of horrible crimes.

In all fairness... this crime was committed by a 15 year old. Of all the cold blooded, ruthless, sadistic pieces of sh*t parole boards have rubber stamped for parole... she is actually one candidate I could see giving parole given her status as a youth offender at the time of the crime.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not feeling sorry for her in prison by any stretch of the imagination. I'm saying Canadian parole boards have given the benefit of the doubt to much worse.

PJ_Soul · October 2016

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
I think... if past history has revealed anything... parole boards in Canada are very eager to release people convicted of horrible crimes.

In all fairness... this crime was committed by a 15 year old. Of all the cold blooded, ruthless, sadistic pieces of sh*t parole boards have rubber stamped for parole... she is actually one candidate I could see giving parole given her status as a youth offender at the time of the crime.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not feeling sorry for her in prison by any stretch of the imagination. I'm saying Canadian parole boards have given the benefit of the doubt to much worse.

The problem is her behaviour while in prison. Over the years I have read about plenty of reasons why this person poses a danger to society. She is fucked up.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · October 2016

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
I think... if past history has revealed anything... parole boards in Canada are very eager to release people convicted of horrible crimes.

In all fairness... this crime was committed by a 15 year old. Of all the cold blooded, ruthless, sadistic pieces of sh*t parole boards have rubber stamped for parole... she is actually one candidate I could see giving parole given her status as a youth offender at the time of the crime.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not feeling sorry for her in prison by any stretch of the imagination. I'm saying Canadian parole boards have given the benefit of the doubt to much worse.
The problem is her behaviour while in prison. Over the years I have read about plenty of reasons why this person poses a danger to society. She is fucked up.

I hear you.

From what I've come to understand... she's never admitted to fault- unlike her male companion that was extremely remorseful.

In the end, this fact will mean very little to- repeating myself- a very eager parole board anxious to parole her.

oftenreading · October 2016

Well, we don't know what the parole board will decide in the future but we do know that they denied her request for day parole this May, so they don't seem that eager to let her out so far. She's not eligible to apply for day parole again until next May, at which point she will have had the baby and it will be five or so months old.

Since she is a federally sentenced inmate, she is potentially eligible to be transferred to a mother-child program, where a child can live with his/her mother until the age of 6. That would depend on the assessment of whether she might pose a risk to her child or not. As such, there is no particular pressure for the parole board to release her based on any argument around bonding with her child or taking on a care-taking role.

And from everything I've read, she seems to be at the least incredibly narcissistic and likely psychopathic. This is her quote to the parole board at her hearing in May 2016: "I’ve done everything and then some. Enough is enough,” she said. “It’s time for this to be done.”

Yup, that's remorse.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · October 2016

oftenreading said:
Well, we don't know what the parole board will decide in the future but we do know that they denied her request for day parole this May, so they don't seem that eager to let her out so far. She's not eligible to apply for day parole again until next May, at which point she will have had the baby and it will be five or so months old.

Since she is a federally sentenced inmate, she is potentially eligible to be transferred to a mother-child program, where a child can live with his/her mother until the age of 6. That would depend on the assessment of whether she might pose a risk to her child or not. As such, there is no particular pressure for the parole board to release her based on any argument around bonding with her child or taking on a care-taking role.

And from everything I've read, she seems to be at the least incredibly narcissistic and likely psychopathic. This is her quote to the parole board at her hearing in May 2016: "I’ve done everything and then some. Enough is enough,” she said. “It’s time for this to be done.”

Yup, that's remorse.

Or some serious sociopathic game playing and lying. One of the two.

"It's time for this to be done?" Oh. Okay. Sure. Reena has long since decomposed. We should all just put the past in the past, eh? Have a nice life, Kelly. Try not to kill anyone again okay? And sorry we made you do such hard time for your mistake. It must have been so tough not able to have sex more than you did.

Who pressures parole boards into releasing inmates such as these? The overwhelming majority of people I know don't want violent offenders released back into the public so it isn't the majority of Canadians from my perspective. Is it a problem of overcrowding and creating space? Or is it an attitude where people wish to empathize with such offenders and offer them another opportunity to live like a normal human being?

oftenreading · October 2016

I'm curious about the opinions of those on here about Warren Glowatski. He took full responsibility right from the start, participated in all programs available to him, including a restorative justice program with the Virks, was a model inmate in custody, and got full parole in 2010. I tried to do a quick search to find out what has happened with him since, and absolutely nothing came up, which suggests he hasn't been in any trouble, at least. So, do people think his release was justified, or should he have remained in custody?

oftenreading · October 2016

Thirty - I'm not sure anyone pressures the parole board to release people. Most of the time the pressure is going the other way. And I suspect none of them empathize with Ellard, anyway, given her attitude and behaviour. There are probably other inmates that they empathize with in different circumstances and different attitudes. But they do have a mandate to make parole decisions based on risk to the public and whether the individual can reintegrate into society successfully and productively.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · October 2016

oftenreading said:
Thirty - I'm not sure anyone pressures the parole board to release people. Most of the time the pressure is going the other way. And I suspect none of them empathize with Ellard, anyway, given her attitude and behaviour. There are probably other inmates that they empathize with in different circumstances and different attitudes. But they do have a mandate to make parole decisions based on risk to the public and whether the individual can reintegrate into society successfully and productively.

To which... their track record is a failing one. Recidivism rates are too high and the hopeful or optimistic event of a successful reintegration shouldn't trump public safety (rolling the dice and crossing your fingers at some innocent person's risk).

Thirty Bills Unpaid · October 2016

oftenreading said:
I'm curious about the opinions of those on here about Warren Glowatski. He took full responsibility right from the start, participated in all programs available to him, including a restorative justice program with the Virks, was a model inmate in custody, and got full parole in 2010. I tried to do a quick search to find out what has happened with him since, and absolutely nothing came up, which suggests he hasn't been in any trouble, at least. So, do people think his release was justified, or should he have remained in custody?

They were very young at the time. From all that I can recall from this case, Warren was extremely remorseful and apologetic. To me, given his age and relative level of stupidity and immaturity... he was a candidate to be released with a second chance. I know the family thought so too.

I don't think the family is 'feeling it' for Ellard.

oftenreading · October 2016

If we're using recidivism rates as a measure of success (and of course we should), then by any way you look at it the Review Board process for managing individuals found Not Criminally Responsible by Reason of Mental Disorder is a raging success. Really low recidivism rates for any crimes, and the rates for recidivism in any violent crime (including minor assaults) is tiny. Just thought I'd put that out there

Thirty Bills Unpaid · October 2016

Often...

I misread your first submission. When you said: 'she seems to be at the least incredibly narcissistic and likely psychopathic'... I thought you were suggesting 'she seemed to be the least'... which I disagreed with.

Sorry.

oftenreading · October 2016

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
Often...

I misread your first submission. When you said: 'she seems to be at the least incredibly narcissistic and likely psychopathic'... I thought you were suggesting 'she seemed to be the least'... which I disagreed with.

Sorry.

Glad you reread. I wouldn't want to be thought to hold the opinion you thought I did. From the limited amount I've read and heard, I personally see her as high risk.

PJ_Soul · October 2016

oftenreading said:
I'm curious about the opinions of those on here about Warren Glowatski. He took full responsibility right from the start, participated in all programs available to him, including a restorative justice program with the Virks, was a model inmate in custody, and got full parole in 2010. I tried to do a quick search to find out what has happened with him since, and absolutely nothing came up, which suggests he hasn't been in any trouble, at least. So, do people think his release was justified, or should he have remained in custody?

I think that rehabilitation is totally possible. People can turn their lives around, and I think there are ways to evaluate that their rehabilitation is real or not. This all depends on the crime of course. I don't think pedophiles can be rehabilitated, so I support court ordered chemical castration. I obviously don't think that psychopaths can be rehabilitated, so if they have committed violent crimes they should stay in prison forever. But yeah, rehabilitation of people without those kinds of anti-social personality disorders is possible and I support giving people a second chance if they reasonably show that they have changed and are no longer a danger to society. I just don't think for one second that Kelly Ellard is rehabilitated. I think she's a sociopath.

Canadian Politics Redux

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