police kill unarmed black man

muskydan said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

The ratio of blacks killed at police detainments is definitely disproportionate to whites when comparing to general population percentages, but I'm not sure this statistic most accurately tells the story.

To investigate it further, I'd be curious to know what the ratios are for race and crime. In other words, for every 100 crimes committed, what percentage of those crimes are committed by blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, etc?

I'd like to compare those percentages to the cop shooting ratios which are frequently presented. I'm curious to know if cops shoot black people as often as they shoot white people in the same proportion as each race's criminal activity.

In other words, if blacks commit the majority of crimes for which police investigate, it goes without saying that more blacks would be shot than whites in the policing process.

Sheeeeeeeet..... You can't put that stat out for the general public to see. That'd B Racist!!!

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Dignin...

I've reviewed the long list of studies you have presented. Among a few themes, they generally speak to the heightened level of suspicion many officers feel towards blacks compared to whites.

But I never saw one that answered this query (and subsequent clarification) cut and pasted from my original post:

"I'm curious to know if cops shoot black people as often as they shoot white people in the same proportion as each race's criminal activity. In other words, if blacks commit the majority of crimes for which police investigate, it goes without saying that more blacks would be shot than whites in the policing process."

Are stereotypes, attitudes, and actions on the part of police borne from inherently racist attitudes, or are they developed through experiences? Do racists become cops or do cops become racist?

It seems as if people are willing to put forth, or at least support, the proposition that blacks have been oppressed and as a result many turn to crime without anything more promising to lead a more positive life towards. I believe this is the case and I even understand why such a choice is made on the part of the individual. However, it also seems that there aren't many who care to talk of what that crime actually looks like on the streets for the police who we charge to take care of it. If crime often features black people as its perpetrators for some officers... those officers are going to grow 'suspicious' towards black people.

I am not making excuses for cops as much as I am pointing out... again... that we are all complicit in this situation. We need to offer hope to those born into conditions where there is little to none. Exactly what this assistance might look like is challenging to depict, however I can say the legalization of drugs would be a component of this picture (I've also listed the reasons why this would be positive earlier in this thread).

Go Beavers said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I'm obviously getting too old to hang around here.

I would have thought some cop hater might have tried to tackle the questions I posed a few posts back... but all I get is 'scaredy cops'. Maybe it's me? Maybe I've got no f**king clue?

Fine. Cops suck. They're all chickenshit, racist bastards targeting black people as agents of the state.

You'll probably say I'm not answering your question directly, but in one of the linked articles earlier it show there's no correlation between a city's crime rate and the rate unarmed blacks are shot by police. So it's safe to say that some departments deal with the issue of prejudice and perception when stopping blacks better than other departments.

JC29856 said:

The reports of officer involved shootings are at least getting creative, the latest in San Diego is a first, assumed a "shooting position".
Lets see what they call a shooting position once video is released, if released.

Any guesses what the shooting position was:
Quick draw McGraw
Classic Clint Eastwood 357
Famous kneeling Osama AK47
Standing Ron Jeremy
Kobe Bryant step back

ponytd said:

JC29856 said:

The reports of officer involved shootings are at least getting creative, the latest in San Diego is a first, assumed a "shooting position".
Lets see what they call a shooting position once video is released, if released.

Any guesses what the shooting position was:
Quick draw McGraw
Classic Clint Eastwood 357
Famous kneeling Osama AK47
Standing Ron Jeremy
Kobe Bryant step back

cnn.com/2016/09/28/us/california-police-shooting/index.html

From the video stills, looks like a shooting position to me. They said he did not have a gun, but he had something. this guy was probably messed up. Whether that be because of drugs, a mental condition, or whatever, he made a move at police. One fired his taser, the other fired his gun. Is it sad that this man died, yes, but what are cops supposed to do? They have a right to protect themselves just as much as anyone else.

JC29856 said:

mace1229 said:

ponytd said:

JC29856 said:

The reports of officer involved shootings are at least getting creative, the latest in San Diego is a first, assumed a "shooting position".
Lets see what they call a shooting position once video is released, if released.

Any guesses what the shooting position was:
Quick draw McGraw
Classic Clint Eastwood 357
Famous kneeling Osama AK47
Standing Ron Jeremy
Kobe Bryant step back

cnn.com/2016/09/28/us/california-police-shooting/index.html

From the video stills, looks like a shooting position to me. They said he did not have a gun, but he had something. this guy was probably messed up. Whether that be because of drugs, a mental condition, or whatever, he made a move at police. One fired his taser, the other fired his gun. Is it sad that this man died, yes, but what are cops supposed to do? They have a right to protect themselves just as much as anyone else.

That's why I sometimes hate the media and all the publicity of these shootings. They get people all riled up over, more often then not, what turns out to be a justified shooting. But by the time that has been figured out BLM has already made up their mind on the situation.
I don't know why anyone would mock a shooting position as a defense. There is definitely a stance most people would take, and from the picture you linked this guy even appears to raise his arms as if he was pointing a gun.
But that doesn't matter to some, it will still be advertised as "unarmed black man killed by police" in the media and just confirm the false belief of open season and many will protest again over what is another justified shooting.

Lets go with every shooting in the US since guns were invented was justified, let's just focus on this san diego shooting for now.
Yes, making a judgement call from the still frame only, without any other information justifies the murder. But, that's not the only information officers had. They were called because of an epileptic seizure, once at the scene they have experience eye ears and instinct.
Google epileptic seizures and tell me what you find?

JC29856 said:

mace1229 said:

JC29856 said:

mace1229 said:

ponytd said:

JC29856 said:

The reports of officer involved shootings are at least getting creative, the latest in San Diego is a first, assumed a "shooting position".
Lets see what they call a shooting position once video is released, if released.

Any guesses what the shooting position was:
Quick draw McGraw
Classic Clint Eastwood 357
Famous kneeling Osama AK47
Standing Ron Jeremy
Kobe Bryant step back

cnn.com/2016/09/28/us/california-police-shooting/index.html

From the video stills, looks like a shooting position to me. They said he did not have a gun, but he had something. this guy was probably messed up. Whether that be because of drugs, a mental condition, or whatever, he made a move at police. One fired his taser, the other fired his gun. Is it sad that this man died, yes, but what are cops supposed to do? They have a right to protect themselves just as much as anyone else.

That's why I sometimes hate the media and all the publicity of these shootings. They get people all riled up over, more often then not, what turns out to be a justified shooting. But by the time that has been figured out BLM has already made up their mind on the situation.
I don't know why anyone would mock a shooting position as a defense. There is definitely a stance most people would take, and from the picture you linked this guy even appears to raise his arms as if he was pointing a gun.
But that doesn't matter to some, it will still be advertised as "unarmed black man killed by police" in the media and just confirm the false belief of open season and many will protest again over what is another justified shooting.

Lets go with every shooting in the US since guns were invented was justified, let's just focus on this san diego shooting for now.
Yes, making a judgement call from the still frame only, without any other information justifies the murder. But, that's not the only information officers had. They were called because of an epileptic seizure, once at the scene they have experience eye ears and instinct.
Google epileptic seizures and tell me what you find?

My comment wasn't meant that I am completely convinced this is justified. But from the article headings and your previous comment almost all but ignores that fact he at least to be taking a stance that would be consistent with shooting a gun, and mocked that defense.

I know people with epileptic seizures, but I googled it anyway. All the articles I read didn't mention seizures, but that he was acting erratically and obstructing traffic. Seems more consistent with someone on drugs, but who knows, I didn't see any further information other than somebody claiming to be his sister said he's mentally ill.
Didn't people claim the Sandy Hook shooter was mentally ill? Should we wait until he shoots up a school before we intervene? That shouldn't be a defense not to shoot if someone is posing an imminent threat.
I'm not completely convinced it was justified because there are a lot of facts not out right now. But it is definitely far from mocking the police and hanging them out as murders again. I mean, yes it is only one still photo, but that one still photo does show an image that is consistent the police story and not with his hands up in the air as I'm sure the looters are going to claim.

Speaking of Sandy Hook and still frame photos...have we ever seen a still of Adam Lanza entering the school or from inside the school like we seen of Harris and Klebold? I was intrigued by that horrible massacre.
Anyway back to topic... Do you think the police immediately release info that contradicts their story? I would bet they watch the video before and then frame a plausible narrative around the video.

Go Beavers said:

mace1229 said:

JC29856 said:

mace1229 said:

JC29856 said:

mace1229 said:

ponytd said:

JC29856 said:

The reports of officer involved shootings are at least getting creative, the latest in San Diego is a first, assumed a "shooting position".
Lets see what they call a shooting position once video is released, if released.

Any guesses what the shooting position was:
Quick draw McGraw
Classic Clint Eastwood 357
Famous kneeling Osama AK47
Standing Ron Jeremy
Kobe Bryant step back

cnn.com/2016/09/28/us/california-police-shooting/index.html

From the video stills, looks like a shooting position to me. They said he did not have a gun, but he had something. this guy was probably messed up. Whether that be because of drugs, a mental condition, or whatever, he made a move at police. One fired his taser, the other fired his gun. Is it sad that this man died, yes, but what are cops supposed to do? They have a right to protect themselves just as much as anyone else.

That's why I sometimes hate the media and all the publicity of these shootings. They get people all riled up over, more often then not, what turns out to be a justified shooting. But by the time that has been figured out BLM has already made up their mind on the situation.
I don't know why anyone would mock a shooting position as a defense. There is definitely a stance most people would take, and from the picture you linked this guy even appears to raise his arms as if he was pointing a gun.
But that doesn't matter to some, it will still be advertised as "unarmed black man killed by police" in the media and just confirm the false belief of open season and many will protest again over what is another justified shooting.

Lets go with every shooting in the US since guns were invented was justified, let's just focus on this san diego shooting for now.
Yes, making a judgement call from the still frame only, without any other information justifies the murder. But, that's not the only information officers had. They were called because of an epileptic seizure, once at the scene they have experience eye ears and instinct.
Google epileptic seizures and tell me what you find?

My comment wasn't meant that I am completely convinced this is justified. But from the article headings and your previous comment almost all but ignores that fact he at least to be taking a stance that would be consistent with shooting a gun, and mocked that defense.

I know people with epileptic seizures, but I googled it anyway. All the articles I read didn't mention seizures, but that he was acting erratically and obstructing traffic. Seems more consistent with someone on drugs, but who knows, I didn't see any further information other than somebody claiming to be his sister said he's mentally ill.
Didn't people claim the Sandy Hook shooter was mentally ill? Should we wait until he shoots up a school before we intervene? That shouldn't be a defense not to shoot if someone is posing an imminent threat.
I'm not completely convinced it was justified because there are a lot of facts not out right now. But it is definitely far from mocking the police and hanging them out as murders again. I mean, yes it is only one still photo, but that one still photo does show an image that is consistent the police story and not with his hands up in the air as I'm sure the looters are going to claim.

Speaking of Sandy Hook and still frame photos...have we ever seen a still of Adam Lanza entering the school or from inside the school like we seen of Harris and Klebold? I was intrigued by that horrible massacre.
Anyway back to topic... Do you think the police immediately release info that contradicts their story? I would bet they watch the video before and then frame a plausible narrative around the video.

They shouldn't release information in any scenario if there is a potential investigation that would lead to a trial.

Weren't they the ones that released the Tulsa video, and that one did look bad. I wouldn't call her a "murderer," but doesn't seem it was necessary. But it got released pretty fast.

Would you at least agree that an unarmed person can still justifiably be shot it a) the cop perceived he was going for the cop's weapon. b) the cop had reason the believe he was reaching for a gun (maybe reaching for something out of view), c) or in this case took a pose that resembles someone shooting a gun after failing to comply with police orders.

If you can agree on that, then you can understand why these headings upset me, which was my original post. The media and news reports focus on the "unarmed black" portion. Knowing it will lead to protest that often turn into riots and looting, over something that has in more cases turned out to be justified. Title it the truth, "Potentially dangerous man threatened police and was shot."

The media should report facts, and armed or unarmed is a fact. "Potentially" is subjective and not a fact, and the potential for danger is swayed by prejudice, which is why we have this thread.