Kaepernick

Options
12627293132123

Comments

  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,535
    pjhawks said:

    eddiec said:

    pjhawks said:

    It's not denying an white person's hard work, it's saying they had it easier. You seem to want to emphasize the individual experience over the group, which is reasonable. If you take an individual black person's experience, you'll see discrimination and prejudice in different forms. If you look at a white's experience, you'll see white privilege. Now some whites will deny the privilege, and say it's a result of their hard work exclusively. Personally, I can go through a whole list of white privilege that I've benefitted from. This benefit has come at the expense of others.

    do your grandparents and parents know you shit on their accomplishments because i can only assume someone in your family came to this country with little or nothing yet you want to dismiss their hard work. they must be so proud of your dismissiveness
    Reread the first line.
    i'd love for him to tell me how my grandparents who came here in 1900 from Ireland with nothing and who were discriminated against in many ways benefited from white privilege. my parents grew up during the depression and my father fought in World War II at age fucking 18 to protect this country - tell me how they benefited from white privilege? fuck if i will sit back and let some blowhard tell me my grandparents and parents got what they ended up with because of white privilege and not their sweat, tears and hard work. i am not going to idly sit by and let someone disrespect those who came before me in that manner.

    edit: and if Kaepernick was raised by white parents didn't he benefit from this white privilege?
    People get easily offended in these discussions because they think it's insulting their ancestors. Your parents got what what they got both from their hard work and their white privilege. The Irish were discriminated against, but being white, to a lesser degree over all when compared to racial minorities.
  • Empty Glass
    Empty Glass In Rob's shed Posts: 12,329

    PP193448 said:

    So now we know Cliffy fits the stereotypical white privileged person. Not all white people grew up with Cliffy. But aren't there black privileged celebrity kids out there. Do Will Smiths kids have so many hurdles to jump over? Some of these stereotypes do not take any account of personal hardships and work ethic. It is complete falsehood to look at an individual at present socioeconomic status and try to define privilege without knowing the individuals past history... Someone may be well off at present time, but may have worked very hard during life to get there.

    Agreed. My wife comes from a blue collar neighborhood in Philly, her father died when she was 12 and her mother raised 3 kids on a shitty City Hall administrative salary. She clearly did not have the opportunities I had and we ended up in the same place. Both white. You're talking about celebrity kids talking about privilege? Sure, there are about 2 dozen of them...

    That said, there are is a significantly more white folks who grew up with my circumstances than minorities, which is largely the point.
    There are significantly more whites in this country.

    Listen, I'm not saying there aren't hurdles or whatever but we make it seem like the white baby born on the street to two crackheads is going to become CEO of a Fortune 500 company in 3 easy steps.
    I've met Rob

    DEGENERATE FUK

    This place is dead

    "THERE ARE NO CLIQUES, ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T JOIN THE FUN" - Empty circa 2015

    "Kfsbho&$thncds" - F Me In the Brain - circa 2015
  • Cliffy6745
    Cliffy6745 Posts: 34,022

    PP193448 said:

    So now we know Cliffy fits the stereotypical white privileged person. Not all white people grew up with Cliffy. But aren't there black privileged celebrity kids out there. Do Will Smiths kids have so many hurdles to jump over? Some of these stereotypes do not take any account of personal hardships and work ethic. It is complete falsehood to look at an individual at present socioeconomic status and try to define privilege without knowing the individuals past history... Someone may be well off at present time, but may have worked very hard during life to get there.

    Agreed. My wife comes from a blue collar neighborhood in Philly, her father died when she was 12 and her mother raised 3 kids on a shitty City Hall administrative salary. She clearly did not have the opportunities I had and we ended up in the same place. Both white. You're talking about celebrity kids talking about privilege? Sure, there are about 2 dozen of them...

    That said, there are is a significantly more white folks who grew up with my circumstances than minorities, which is largely the point.
    There are significantly more whites in this country.

    Listen, I'm not saying there aren't hurdles or whatever but we make it seem like the white baby born on the street to two crackheads is going to become CEO of a Fortune 500 company in 3 easy steps.
    Then we can talk percentages, the point remains the same.

    No one is saying anything of the sort...
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,907

    pjhawks said:

    eddiec said:

    pjhawks said:

    It's not denying an white person's hard work, it's saying they had it easier. You seem to want to emphasize the individual experience over the group, which is reasonable. If you take an individual black person's experience, you'll see discrimination and prejudice in different forms. If you look at a white's experience, you'll see white privilege. Now some whites will deny the privilege, and say it's a result of their hard work exclusively. Personally, I can go through a whole list of white privilege that I've benefitted from. This benefit has come at the expense of others.

    do your grandparents and parents know you shit on their accomplishments because i can only assume someone in your family came to this country with little or nothing yet you want to dismiss their hard work. they must be so proud of your dismissiveness
    Reread the first line.
    i'd love for him to tell me how my grandparents who came here in 1900 from Ireland with nothing and who were discriminated against in many ways benefited from white privilege. my parents grew up during the depression and my father fought in World War II at age fucking 18 to protect this country - tell me how they benefited from white privilege? fuck if i will sit back and let some blowhard tell me my grandparents and parents got what they ended up with because of white privilege and not their sweat, tears and hard work. i am not going to idly sit by and let someone disrespect those who came before me in that manner.

    edit: and if Kaepernick was raised by white parents didn't he benefit from this white privilege?
    People get easily offended in these discussions because they think it's insulting their ancestors. Your parents got what what they got both from their hard work and their white privilege. The Irish were discriminated against, but being white, to a lesser degree over all when compared to racial minorities.
    oh so now it's degrees of discrimination? so some of it is/was ok? can you quantify what amount of it is ok so if i meet my grandparents somewhere in the after life i can tell them the discrimination they faced was ok because of your scale?
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,535
    pjhawks said:

    pjhawks said:

    eddiec said:

    pjhawks said:

    It's not denying an white person's hard work, it's saying they had it easier. You seem to want to emphasize the individual experience over the group, which is reasonable. If you take an individual black person's experience, you'll see discrimination and prejudice in different forms. If you look at a white's experience, you'll see white privilege. Now some whites will deny the privilege, and say it's a result of their hard work exclusively. Personally, I can go through a whole list of white privilege that I've benefitted from. This benefit has come at the expense of others.

    do your grandparents and parents know you shit on their accomplishments because i can only assume someone in your family came to this country with little or nothing yet you want to dismiss their hard work. they must be so proud of your dismissiveness
    Reread the first line.
    i'd love for him to tell me how my grandparents who came here in 1900 from Ireland with nothing and who were discriminated against in many ways benefited from white privilege. my parents grew up during the depression and my father fought in World War II at age fucking 18 to protect this country - tell me how they benefited from white privilege? fuck if i will sit back and let some blowhard tell me my grandparents and parents got what they ended up with because of white privilege and not their sweat, tears and hard work. i am not going to idly sit by and let someone disrespect those who came before me in that manner.

    edit: and if Kaepernick was raised by white parents didn't he benefit from this white privilege?
    People get easily offended in these discussions because they think it's insulting their ancestors. Your parents got what what they got both from their hard work and their white privilege. The Irish were discriminated against, but being white, to a lesser degree over all when compared to racial minorities.
    oh so now it's degrees of discrimination? so some of it is/was ok? can you quantify what amount of it is ok so if i meet my grandparents somewhere in the after life i can tell them the discrimination they faced was ok because of your scale?
    Of course there's going to be degrees of discrimination. Nowhere am I saying any of it's okay, I'm suggesting people not be in denial of white privilege. You're not insulting your family if you acknowledge it.
  • PP193448
    PP193448 Here Posts: 4,282

    PP193448 said:

    So now we know Cliffy fits the stereotypical white privileged person. Not all white people grew up with Cliffy. But aren't there black privileged celebrity kids out there. Do Will Smiths kids have so many hurdles to jump over? Some of these stereotypes do not take any account of personal hardships and work ethic. It is complete falsehood to look at an individual at present socioeconomic status and try to define privilege without knowing the individuals past history... Someone may be well off at present time, but may have worked very hard during life to get there.

    Agreed. My wife comes from a blue collar neighborhood in Philly, her father died when she was 12 and her mother raised 3 kids on a shitty City Hall administrative salary. She clearly did not have the opportunities I had and we ended up in the same place. Both white. You're talking about celebrity kids talking about privilege? Sure, there are about 2 dozen of them...

    That said, there are is a significantly more white folks who grew up with my circumstances than minorities, which is largely the point.
    Appreciate the response Cliffy. Wasn't really trying to pick on you directly. Guess I would have to agree with you to a degree +/-. :peace:
    2006 Clev,Pitt; 2008 NY MSGx2; 2010 Columbus; 2012 Missoula; 2013 Phoenix,Vancouver,Seattle; 2014 Cincy; 2016 Lex, Wrigley 1&2; 2018 Wrigley 1&2; 2022 Louisville
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,907

    pjhawks said:

    pjhawks said:

    eddiec said:

    pjhawks said:

    It's not denying an white person's hard work, it's saying they had it easier. You seem to want to emphasize the individual experience over the group, which is reasonable. If you take an individual black person's experience, you'll see discrimination and prejudice in different forms. If you look at a white's experience, you'll see white privilege. Now some whites will deny the privilege, and say it's a result of their hard work exclusively. Personally, I can go through a whole list of white privilege that I've benefitted from. This benefit has come at the expense of others.

    do your grandparents and parents know you shit on their accomplishments because i can only assume someone in your family came to this country with little or nothing yet you want to dismiss their hard work. they must be so proud of your dismissiveness
    Reread the first line.
    i'd love for him to tell me how my grandparents who came here in 1900 from Ireland with nothing and who were discriminated against in many ways benefited from white privilege. my parents grew up during the depression and my father fought in World War II at age fucking 18 to protect this country - tell me how they benefited from white privilege? fuck if i will sit back and let some blowhard tell me my grandparents and parents got what they ended up with because of white privilege and not their sweat, tears and hard work. i am not going to idly sit by and let someone disrespect those who came before me in that manner.

    edit: and if Kaepernick was raised by white parents didn't he benefit from this white privilege?
    People get easily offended in these discussions because they think it's insulting their ancestors. Your parents got what what they got both from their hard work and their white privilege. The Irish were discriminated against, but being white, to a lesser degree over all when compared to racial minorities.
    oh so now it's degrees of discrimination? so some of it is/was ok? can you quantify what amount of it is ok so if i meet my grandparents somewhere in the after life i can tell them the discrimination they faced was ok because of your scale?
    Of course there's going to be degrees of discrimination. Nowhere am I saying any of it's okay, I'm suggesting people not be in denial of white privilege. You're not insulting your family if you acknowledge it.
    so my grandparents were discriminated against but still benefited from white privilege? that is what you are saying. nah that's not insulting to them :smirk:
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,535
    pjhawks said:

    pjhawks said:

    pjhawks said:

    eddiec said:

    pjhawks said:

    It's not denying an white person's hard work, it's saying they had it easier. You seem to want to emphasize the individual experience over the group, which is reasonable. If you take an individual black person's experience, you'll see discrimination and prejudice in different forms. If you look at a white's experience, you'll see white privilege. Now some whites will deny the privilege, and say it's a result of their hard work exclusively. Personally, I can go through a whole list of white privilege that I've benefitted from. This benefit has come at the expense of others.

    do your grandparents and parents know you shit on their accomplishments because i can only assume someone in your family came to this country with little or nothing yet you want to dismiss their hard work. they must be so proud of your dismissiveness
    Reread the first line.
    i'd love for him to tell me how my grandparents who came here in 1900 from Ireland with nothing and who were discriminated against in many ways benefited from white privilege. my parents grew up during the depression and my father fought in World War II at age fucking 18 to protect this country - tell me how they benefited from white privilege? fuck if i will sit back and let some blowhard tell me my grandparents and parents got what they ended up with because of white privilege and not their sweat, tears and hard work. i am not going to idly sit by and let someone disrespect those who came before me in that manner.

    edit: and if Kaepernick was raised by white parents didn't he benefit from this white privilege?
    People get easily offended in these discussions because they think it's insulting their ancestors. Your parents got what what they got both from their hard work and their white privilege. The Irish were discriminated against, but being white, to a lesser degree over all when compared to racial minorities.
    oh so now it's degrees of discrimination? so some of it is/was ok? can you quantify what amount of it is ok so if i meet my grandparents somewhere in the after life i can tell them the discrimination they faced was ok because of your scale?
    Of course there's going to be degrees of discrimination. Nowhere am I saying any of it's okay, I'm suggesting people not be in denial of white privilege. You're not insulting your family if you acknowledge it.
    so my grandparents were discriminated against but still benefited from white privilege? that is what you are saying. nah that's not insulting to them :smirk:
    What's insulting about it?
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    pjhawks said:

    pjhawks said:

    pjhawks said:

    eddiec said:

    pjhawks said:

    It's not denying an white person's hard work, it's saying they had it easier. You seem to want to emphasize the individual experience over the group, which is reasonable. If you take an individual black person's experience, you'll see discrimination and prejudice in different forms. If you look at a white's experience, you'll see white privilege. Now some whites will deny the privilege, and say it's a result of their hard work exclusively. Personally, I can go through a whole list of white privilege that I've benefitted from. This benefit has come at the expense of others.

    do your grandparents and parents know you shit on their accomplishments because i can only assume someone in your family came to this country with little or nothing yet you want to dismiss their hard work. they must be so proud of your dismissiveness
    Reread the first line.
    i'd love for him to tell me how my grandparents who came here in 1900 from Ireland with nothing and who were discriminated against in many ways benefited from white privilege. my parents grew up during the depression and my father fought in World War II at age fucking 18 to protect this country - tell me how they benefited from white privilege? fuck if i will sit back and let some blowhard tell me my grandparents and parents got what they ended up with because of white privilege and not their sweat, tears and hard work. i am not going to idly sit by and let someone disrespect those who came before me in that manner.

    edit: and if Kaepernick was raised by white parents didn't he benefit from this white privilege?
    People get easily offended in these discussions because they think it's insulting their ancestors. Your parents got what what they got both from their hard work and their white privilege. The Irish were discriminated against, but being white, to a lesser degree over all when compared to racial minorities.
    oh so now it's degrees of discrimination? so some of it is/was ok? can you quantify what amount of it is ok so if i meet my grandparents somewhere in the after life i can tell them the discrimination they faced was ok because of your scale?
    Of course there's going to be degrees of discrimination. Nowhere am I saying any of it's okay, I'm suggesting people not be in denial of white privilege. You're not insulting your family if you acknowledge it.
    so my grandparents were discriminated against but still benefited from white privilege? that is what you are saying. nah that's not insulting to them :smirk:
    I am betting that if you had been able to talk to your grandparents when they were young (obviously impossible) and asks them if they were treated differently than the black people in the community, they would have looked at you in a puzzled way and told you of course they were. That was plain to everyone, and accepted as the way it was and, in fact, the way it should be. From the big things down to the little things like drinking fountains and where you could sit in a restaurant, it was apparent that white people had more opportunity and choice.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,644
    People of various races, creeds, colors etc. are discriminated against. Each situation deserves consideration. But this is a bout African Americans and the black community. No need to compare apples and oranges here. We'll get to talking about discrimination against Orange Hitlers elsewhere.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni











  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    Who would have it harder pjhawks? A black family or an Irish family in the early 1900s? This really isn't that hard.
  • There's nothing wrong with being proud of your grandparent's accomplishments, pjhawks. I don't think people are intentionally trying to discount the hardships they had to overcome. It is truly great that you feel such respect for them.
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,907
    edited September 2016
    so all you who are saying that i can't compare my grandparents oppression to the blacks of the same time would you consider Kaepernick less oppressed because he was raised by white parents?
    Post edited by pjhawks on
  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    edited September 2016
    of course you can and we can think that it is insane.

    and

    Huh?
    Post edited by Smellyman on
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,644
    pjhawks said:

    so all you who are saying that i can't compare my grandparents oppression to the blacks of the same time would you consider Kaepernick less oppressed because he was raised by white parents?

    I'm not sure what your driving at with that comparison. You can compare your grandparents oppression to black people's oppression but why? That's just not the point of CK's actions or the topic of this thread. My Amish side of the family no doubt faced some bigotry and oppression (no where near as much as African Americans, of course) but that's a different story than this one. Besides, if you ask CK what he thinks of oppression in general a thousand bucks says he is against all oppression. But he isn't all those kinds of people.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni











  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    edited September 2016
    Nobody has done me any favors because I'm white...

    Keep regurgitating the bullshit if it makes you feel better... some of you guys act like we are all still living in early 20th century Mississippi

    Personal responsibility and hard work... just ask the fucking POTUS
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,286
    pjhawks said:

    pjhawks said:

    pjhawks said:

    eddiec said:

    pjhawks said:

    It's not denying an white person's hard work, it's saying they had it easier. You seem to want to emphasize the individual experience over the group, which is reasonable. If you take an individual black person's experience, you'll see discrimination and prejudice in different forms. If you look at a white's experience, you'll see white privilege. Now some whites will deny the privilege, and say it's a result of their hard work exclusively. Personally, I can go through a whole list of white privilege that I've benefitted from. This benefit has come at the expense of others.

    do your grandparents and parents know you shit on their accomplishments because i can only assume someone in your family came to this country with little or nothing yet you want to dismiss their hard work. they must be so proud of your dismissiveness
    Reread the first line.
    i'd love for him to tell me how my grandparents who came here in 1900 from Ireland with nothing and who were discriminated against in many ways benefited from white privilege. my parents grew up during the depression and my father fought in World War II at age fucking 18 to protect this country - tell me how they benefited from white privilege? fuck if i will sit back and let some blowhard tell me my grandparents and parents got what they ended up with because of white privilege and not their sweat, tears and hard work. i am not going to idly sit by and let someone disrespect those who came before me in that manner.

    edit: and if Kaepernick was raised by white parents didn't he benefit from this white privilege?
    People get easily offended in these discussions because they think it's insulting their ancestors. Your parents got what what they got both from their hard work and their white privilege. The Irish were discriminated against, but being white, to a lesser degree over all when compared to racial minorities.
    oh so now it's degrees of discrimination? so some of it is/was ok? can you quantify what amount of it is ok so if i meet my grandparents somewhere in the after life i can tell them the discrimination they faced was ok because of your scale?
    Of course there's going to be degrees of discrimination. Nowhere am I saying any of it's okay, I'm suggesting people not be in denial of white privilege. You're not insulting your family if you acknowledge it.
    so my grandparents were discriminated against but still benefited from white privilege? that is what you are saying. nah that's not insulting to them :smirk:
    hawks, are you now treated as your grandparents likely were?

    guess what, that black boy born yesterday will likely see the same fear and distrust toward them when he grows up as is shown today not to mention the shit that has occured since emancipation as "free" people.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    my2hands said:

    Nobody has done me any favors because I'm white...

    Keep regurgitating the bullshit if it makes you feel better... some of you guys act like we are all still living in early 20th century Mississippi

    Personal responsibility and hard work... just ask the fucking POTUS

    Your privilege is undeniable. The only bullshit around here is coming from the folks who think it doesn't exist. Because, you know, we don't have black slaves in America anymore.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,288
    dignin said:

    my2hands said:

    Nobody has done me any favors because I'm white...

    Keep regurgitating the bullshit if it makes you feel better... some of you guys act like we are all still living in early 20th century Mississippi

    Personal responsibility and hard work... just ask the fucking POTUS

    Your privilege is undeniable. The only bullshit around here is coming from the folks who think it doesn't exist. Because, you know, we don't have black slaves in America anymore.
    That's right. Now we have black presidents.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Empty Glass
    Empty Glass In Rob's shed Posts: 12,329
    my2hands said:



    Personal responsibility and hard work


    I think this would solve a large percentage of problems we all face
    I've met Rob

    DEGENERATE FUK

    This place is dead

    "THERE ARE NO CLIQUES, ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T JOIN THE FUN" - Empty circa 2015

    "Kfsbho&$thncds" - F Me In the Brain - circa 2015