Canadian Politics Redux

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  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    edited August 2016
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    Often...

    What I would say in response to your post is that the majority of Canadians don't feel as if our justice system does represent us as a people. This is evident in virtually all polls asking for opinion on the subject.

    And to dismiss these sentiments as 'uninformed' or 'uneducated' is arrogant at best.

    There are individual cases where the legal system has failed individuals, but the growing collection of cases where our criminals have been treated tenderly has become a mountain... and people are very tired of this.

    Questions of guilt aside... we want our rapists in prison- not released after serving a portion of their pathetically weak sentences to go out and rape again.

    What I just described is not a rare instance. It happens. Way too often.

    Which post are you referring to, Thirty? I haven't posted here in a few days. I've been too busy with work.
    Post edited by oftenreading on
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    ^^^

    Sorry. It was Polaris I was speaking to- I had thought it was your post (you guys are too hard to tell apart lol!)
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    ^^^

    Sorry. It was Polaris I was speaking to- I had thought it was your post (you guys are too hard to tell apart lol!)

    Ha!

    I do intend to jump back in but I am doing the work of four people right now. Summer holidays are a bitch if you're not the one who's away.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,715
    edited August 2016
    Wow, so that would-be ISIS terrorist actually detonated his backpack bomb in the cab he'd just gotten into when he was confronted by police who had come to arrest him. The cab driver was hurt but not killed. Not clear if the terrorist was killed by his own bomb or if he was shot by police (not even clear if shots were fired yet, not sure why not). I guess the bomb wasn't a very good one, since it didn't even kill the guy who always in the car with it. I saw a photo of the backseat of the cab and it's not even that damaged. So either he fucked up the bomb, or it was a rinky-dink token bomb more intended to scare people than to kill them.... u less he was going to put it somewhere that would cause much more damage, like on a train so it went off the tracks or who knows what. Anyway, he was responding to a call from ISIS, and ISIS has officially claimed responsibility. This guy was in touch with others of his kind, including the nut jobs who shot up that convention or meeting or whatever it was where people were displaying depictions of Muhammed down in Texas (am I remembering that right?).
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    Apparently this POS had 2 bombs and 1 went off and he was shot by police, he instructed the cab company that he was headed to a mall in downtown London. he was out on a peace bond that was set to expire at the end of August. So who knows if the second bomb could have been more dangerous. at least the police saved us taxpayers a pointless trial...
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    I cried’: Mother of Calgary man who died in Syria fighting with ISIL says government failed Aaron Driver

    http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/i-cried-mother-of-calgary-man-who-died-in-syria-fighting-with-isil-says-government-failed-aaron-driver

    If anyone failed your kid LADY it was you as the parent...dumbass.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    lukin2006 said:

    I cried’: Mother of Calgary man who died in Syria fighting with ISIL says government failed Aaron Driver

    http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/i-cried-mother-of-calgary-man-who-died-in-syria-fighting-with-isil-says-government-failed-aaron-driver

    If anyone failed your kid LADY it was you as the parent...dumbass.

    Well, who knows if the woman in the article failed her own child; there's not enough information there to comment on that, since she isn't even talking about her own child. She's talking about her hope that more could be done to intervene in youth becoming radicalized, in reference to the Driver case which seems to have no relation to her. I personally don't know what realistically the government could do to prevent this in the first place, as opposed to dealing with it when it arises, but she's certainly not making the claim you seem to think she is.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    I don't think I made a claim other than calling her a dumbass for blaming the government. I did say "IF anyone failed your kid it was her", certainly not the government. What now are going to have to pour billions of dollars into youth programs, the education to prevent radicalization...
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    I guess I'm just misreading you, lukin. I don't see that the article says she blames the government for what happened with her kid at all
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    OK...I see where this is going ... no where fast, have a good night...
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,715
    edited August 2016
    oftenreading said:

    I guess I'm just misreading you, lukin. I don't see that the article says she blames the government for what happened with her kid at all

    I kind of think she is. She's saying that the government could have intervened and stopped what happened but didn't, and that it hasn't done enough to prevent the radicalization of youth too. That Harper used fear tactics which made things worse, and that Trudeau's government is burying its head in the sand about it and is therefore doing nothing to prevent or stop it either...... She may have a point. I really don't know enough about the issue to say. Either way, it doesn't mean we're supposed to feel pity or anything for terrorists, and I don't feel like that was the point she was trying to make.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    lukin2006 said:

    I cried’: Mother of Calgary man who died in Syria fighting with ISIL says government failed Aaron Driver

    http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/i-cried-mother-of-calgary-man-who-died-in-syria-fighting-with-isil-says-government-failed-aaron-driver

    If anyone failed your kid LADY it was you as the parent...dumbass.

    What an utterly ridiculous perspective.

    I took a couple things from it:

    1. They're thinking better surveillance was necessary. So, in other words, once her son was identified as a homicidal brainwashed f**king idiot... the government should have done a better job monitoring his activity.

    2. They're thinking it was incumbent upon the government to counsel the family and determine what was troubling him. Hmmm. Don't we know?

    3. What a goof. I'm glad he's gone. She's bitter because he's dead. Aren't you relieved he didn't take a bunch of people before the f**K up met his end?

    4. She should be apologizing to everyone, but she's pointing fingers. She belongs in the idiot thread.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    Often...

    What I would say in response to your post is that the majority of Canadians don't feel as if our justice system does represent us as a people. This is evident in virtually all polls asking for opinion on the subject.

    And to dismiss these sentiments as 'uninformed' or 'uneducated' is arrogant at best.

    There are individual cases where the legal system has failed individuals, but the growing collection of cases where our criminals have been treated tenderly has become a mountain... and people are very tired of this.

    Questions of guilt aside... we want our rapists in prison- not released after serving a portion of their pathetically weak sentences to go out and rape again.

    What I just described is not a rare instance. It happens. Way too often.

    how is it arrogant!? ... what is arrogant is thinking 36 million Canadians thinking they know law ... i don't want you making laws as much as you don't want me ... we have experts in law do this ... people who have an understanding of our value system here in Canada ... that's why we don't execute people and abortion is legal ...

    crime is down in this country ... you can continue to pick incidents where you feel the justice system failed but are you getting email alerts when it has worked!? ... guessing no ...

    if 10 people go in jail for the same crime and serve the same sentence and 1 guy recommits ... you cite failure ... and your solution is to make it harsh for that 1 person ... meanwhile the other 9 people will have to suffer in appropriate sentences to appease people like you ...
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    edited August 2016
    Recidivism rates of 44% in the first year of release, Polaris. The 'first' year of release.

    Your 1 in 10 comment is 'just a little' misinformed.

    And crime being down has nothing to do with our penal system- it has more to do with social climate and opportunity. I'm not sure why you would think the courts and prisons have anything to do with the reduction of crime?

    And poor, poor violent offenders 'having to suffer' (your words) for, say, beating and raping a woman. Thank Gawd they have people like you in their corner making sure they don't!

    http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/rcvd-fdffndr/index-en.aspx
    Post edited by Thirty Bills Unpaid on
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    Recidivism rates of 44% in the first year of release, Polaris. The 'first' year of release.

    Your 1 in 10 comment is 'just a little' misinformed.

    And crime being down has nothing to do with our penal system- it has more to do with social climate and opportunity. I'm not sure why you would think the courts and prisons have anything to do with the reduction of crime?

    And poor, poor violent offenders 'having to suffer' (your words) for, say, beating and raping a woman. Thank Gawd they have people like you in their corner making sure they don't!

    http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/rcvd-fdffndr/index-en.aspx

    from your same source ... here is the rate for sex offenders in canada ... http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/sx-ffndr-rcdvsm/index-en.aspx ...

    also - your chart is indicating reconvinction rates which is different than recidivism ... the link also showed that rate of 44% is favourable vs. other countries using the same metric ... although 44% may seem high - it's a study from 1994 and involves everyone who's in prison for whatever crime ...

    and again - even tho everyone has stated it multiple times ... but because either you choose to not accept it or feel like your moral compass is higher than others ... i will repeat ... this discussion is not about sympathizing with offenders of violent crime or crime in general ... it's about understanding that there are complexities in our legal and justice system ... that just because you may think that a particular crime deserves a harsher sentence such as death doesn't make it just or right based on our shared collective values in Canada ...

    not sure how you can say our justice system isn't associated with crime being down and then yet send a link showing reconvinction rates as a means of failure ...



  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    I offered you a link to counter your 1 in 10 offhand comment. It serves to demonstrate our penal system isn't exactly kicking ass.

    And you can state what you did as many times as you want: if the current state of our justice system suits you well... good for you. What we have needs refining in my opinion. I might be right with regards to some changes I'd like to see... but I could be wrong too. It's merely how I see things. Should I apologize for that?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I offered you a link to counter your 1 in 10 offhand comment. It serves to demonstrate our penal system isn't exactly kicking ass.

    And you can state what you did as many times as you want: if the current state of our justice system suits you well... good for you. What we have needs refining in my opinion. I might be right with regards to some changes I'd like to see... but I could be wrong too. It's merely how I see things. Should I apologize for that?

    well ... i was making up an example ... you made it about sex offenders ... of which the rate is 12% - 21% which is not egregiously off my made up number ...

    you don't have to apologize for anything ... it's just that your constant labeling of anyone discussing this with you as supporters of rapists is not only wrong - it's getting tired and old ... i could label you as a murder happy red neck in each post ... pretty sure you're not gonna like that ...
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    polaris_x said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I offered you a link to counter your 1 in 10 offhand comment. It serves to demonstrate our penal system isn't exactly kicking ass.

    And you can state what you did as many times as you want: if the current state of our justice system suits you well... good for you. What we have needs refining in my opinion. I might be right with regards to some changes I'd like to see... but I could be wrong too. It's merely how I see things. Should I apologize for that?

    well ... i was making up an example ... you made it about sex offenders ... of which the rate is 12% - 21% which is not egregiously off my made up number ...

    you don't have to apologize for anything ... it's just that your constant labeling of anyone discussing this with you as supporters of rapists is not only wrong - it's getting tired and old ... i could label you as a murder happy red neck in each post ... pretty sure you're not gonna like that ...
    Well... you kind of did. You expressed that I wanted to see them suffer. What's the implication there?

    You took a veiled shot- if not a direct one- and when I fire one back you tell me that's getting old.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    And remember... those rates were 'within the first year of release'. They are still big- especially for the next vicrims.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    polaris_x said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    I offered you a link to counter your 1 in 10 offhand comment. It serves to demonstrate our penal system isn't exactly kicking ass.

    And you can state what you did as many times as you want: if the current state of our justice system suits you well... good for you. What we have needs refining in my opinion. I might be right with regards to some changes I'd like to see... but I could be wrong too. It's merely how I see things. Should I apologize for that?

    well ... i was making up an example ... you made it about sex offenders ... of which the rate is 12% - 21% which is not egregiously off my made up number ...

    you don't have to apologize for anything ... it's just that your constant labeling of anyone discussing this with you as supporters of rapists is not only wrong - it's getting tired and old ... i could label you as a murder happy red neck in each post ... pretty sure you're not gonna like that ...
    Well... you kind of did. You expressed that I wanted to see them suffer. What's the implication there?

    You took a veiled shot- if not a direct one- and when I fire one back you tell me that's getting old.
    oh dear ... how would you have phrased it then? ... that's the consequence of what you seek ... and the foundation of my point ... making harsher sentences has consequences of which potentially making it harsh for people that otherwise would re-integrate fine ...

    in any case - you've been firing shots all throughout this thread ... i don't care ... i'm just explaining why we keep trying to tell you what you're saying isn't true ...
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