Canadian Politics Redux

PJ_Soul said:

Terrorist plot stopped, would-be terrorist from Winnipeg killed by police during some kind of confrontation in Ontario. Police had been investigating him for a long time - he was already under a court order not to have any communications with ISIS. The Toronto Transit Commission had been warned, so presumably the attack was planned for mass transit. I would say that it's probably not great that this guy was killed. Keeping him alive for questioning probably would have been better, just in case he knows of others who currently pose a real threat to the public. Of course, I doubt the cops had much choice in the matter. Anyway, I am not sure if the cops were still letting this guy walk around planning a terrorist attack because that is the most informative way to investigate and stop such a plot, or if it suggests a problem with how the courts handle terrorist threats. Until they release more info, I'll assume the former.
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/08/11/terror-suspect-aaron-driver-killed-in-southwestern-ontario-police-standoff.html

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

Terrorist plot stopped, would-be terrorist from Winnipeg killed by police during some kind of confrontation in Ontario. Police had been investigating him for a long time - he was already under a court order not to have any communications with ISIS. The Toronto Transit Commission had been warned, so presumably the attack was planned for mass transit. I would say that it's probably not great that this guy was killed. Keeping him alive for questioning probably would have been better, just in case he knows of others who currently pose a real threat to the public. Of course, I doubt the cops had much choice in the matter. Anyway, I am not sure if the cops were still letting this guy walk around planning a terrorist attack because that is the most informative way to investigate and stop such a plot, or if it suggests a problem with how the courts handle terrorist threats. Until they release more info, I'll assume the former.
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/08/11/terror-suspect-aaron-driver-killed-in-southwestern-ontario-police-standoff.html

As far as I'm concerned... if some maniac is contacting ISIS and the authorities discover such... he should be arrested- possibly sent overseas so he can be closer to his friends.

I don't think we need to concern ourselves with people's rights and freedoms when they are collaborating with our enemies and plotting to bring harm to Canadians doing Canadian things in Canada. We don't need to wait until something happens before we arrest him and we don't need to place 24 hour surveillance on him so that he can't (all at the taxpayer's expense).

Telling him to stop contacting ISIS? Knowing he persisted? Come on, man.

I definitely don't think they should be sent overseas where no one can keep an eye on them. They should be put in prison for life and mined for information if they have any. Sometimes they even serve as good informants. As for the rest, I think there are logical lines here that the law, as usual, refuses to navigate the way it should. It's not fucking hard to differentiate laws so that they apply to terrorist plotters but still not infringe on or threaten the rights of law abiding citizens. The law is oftern WAY too black and white IMO. However, while the law is like that, I think cops need to do what they're doing, because if they hadn't they very likely would end up getting the case tossed out in court. This guy was already unleashed back on the public by the courts. I figure the cops did this the way they did it and carried out an ongoing investigation because they know as well as we do that the system is fucked up. So in the end I 100% agree with the way the RCMP handled this.... except for the shooting part. I don't know if they were really taken off guard or what, but if they were watching him for so long, you'd think they would have figured out a way to get him into custody without a gun fight. But who knows - no details on that part yet. Maybe it was somehow unavoidable.

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ_Soul said:

Terrorist plot stopped, would-be terrorist from Winnipeg killed by police during some kind of confrontation in Ontario. Police had been investigating him for a long time - he was already under a court order not to have any communications with ISIS. The Toronto Transit Commission had been warned, so presumably the attack was planned for mass transit. I would say that it's probably not great that this guy was killed. Keeping him alive for questioning probably would have been better, just in case he knows of others who currently pose a real threat to the public. Of course, I doubt the cops had much choice in the matter. Anyway, I am not sure if the cops were still letting this guy walk around planning a terrorist attack because that is the most informative way to investigate and stop such a plot, or if it suggests a problem with how the courts handle terrorist threats. Until they release more info, I'll assume the former.
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/08/11/terror-suspect-aaron-driver-killed-in-southwestern-ontario-police-standoff.html

As far as I'm concerned... if some maniac is contacting ISIS and the authorities discover such... he should be arrested- possibly sent overseas so he can be closer to his friends.

I don't think we need to concern ourselves with people's rights and freedoms when they are collaborating with our enemies and plotting to bring harm to Canadians doing Canadian things in Canada. We don't need to wait until something happens before we arrest him and we don't need to place 24 hour surveillance on him so that he can't (all at the taxpayer's expense).

Telling him to stop contacting ISIS? Knowing he persisted? Come on, man.

PJ_Soul said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Not trying to throw gasoline on the fire, but we (unfortunately) shouldn't lose sight of the fact that a "life sentence" means 25 years. The only time it becomes life in a practical sense is when consecutive life sentences are applied (as opposed to concurrent sentences). If our penal system was more successful at rehabilitation I might be ok with this situation, but things being as they seem to be, I call it bullshit.

Also, to add a bit of clarification, it seems that the RCMP acted on a tip from the FBI (which included the "martyr video"), according to this afternoon's press conference (the RCMP were monitoring the subject at the time). Kudos to effective cross-border cooperation.

It's also sad this punk came from a military family, in my opinion.

A life sentence in Canada means life without the possibility of parole for 25 years, not 25 years in prison. Many people stay in prison for their entire lives because they never get paroled.
It may be sad that he came from a military family, but the exact opposite of surprising. I've noticed that a lot of recent violent acts have been committed by ex-military, so it's not a huge stretch for the kid of ex-military got there too. I wouldn't mind a discussion about what can be done about this side-issue, actually. Seems like the military might need to think up some kind of program to confront the problem/pattern of extremism apparently growing within its own ranks.

PJ_Soul said:

DarthMaeglin said:

PJ_Soul said:

DarthMaeglin said:

Not trying to throw gasoline on the fire, but we (unfortunately) shouldn't lose sight of the fact that a "life sentence" means 25 years. The only time it becomes life in a practical sense is when consecutive life sentences are applied (as opposed to concurrent sentences). If our penal system was more successful at rehabilitation I might be ok with this situation, but things being as they seem to be, I call it bullshit.

Also, to add a bit of clarification, it seems that the RCMP acted on a tip from the FBI (which included the "martyr video"), according to this afternoon's press conference (the RCMP were monitoring the subject at the time). Kudos to effective cross-border cooperation.

It's also sad this punk came from a military family, in my opinion.

A life sentence in Canada means life without the possibility of parole for 25 years, not 25 years in prison. Many people stay in prison for their entire lives because they never get paroled.
It may be sad that he came from a military family, but the exact opposite of surprising. I've noticed that a lot of recent violent acts have been committed by ex-military, so it's not a huge stretch for the kid of ex-military got there too. I wouldn't mind a discussion about what can be done about this side-issue, actually. Seems like the military might need to think up some kind of program to confront the problem/pattern of extremism apparently growing within its own ranks.

D'oh, my confusion, sorry.

I'm not sure in this case the punk's behaviour would track back entirely to his father's military service (though it likely did contribute), sounds like his anger at the world began when his mother died when he was 7. Certainly something to look into, though it seems to me Bryan Adams came from a military family, so (as with most scenarios) it can go both ways. (Off to google if what I said about Bryan Adams is correct, lol).

Oh, of course the vast majority of ex-military don't become terrorists or mass murderers, haha. It just does seem to be a pattern (more notably in the US of course), so I figure that military needs to really consider what could be done to prevent this. Especially since I believe that for every person who actually goes through with such a thing, there are several more who are on the edge. We already know that the military doesn't handle (or do enough to prevent) PTSD properly at all, which is likely one factor here. Another is likely tied to certain mainstay aspects of military culture. Perhaps some of those things are outdated and leading to psychological/social problems with some soldiers? I think something's going on there, anyway. The military basically promotes extreme violence (necessarily) and a certain level of aggression but, as far as I can tell, does relatively little to counteract that with ways to cope with that in a changing world.