Police shooting people.....

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dignin said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

"Wow. Another black guy got shot by a cop!"
- implies cops mowing down black guys fueled by racist attitudes

"Wow. Another black guy resisting arrest got shot by a cop!"
- implies guy at point of arrest challenged cops and got shot for doing so

Which of the big profile cases were of the first variety? I can think of Tamir Rice and the recent one in Minnesota off the top of my head.

The other cases I'm remembering were of the second variety. And being of the second variety, in many circles including ones here, a very significant part of the equation is consistently left out- damning cops in the process and nurturing the 'us versus them' attitude which has recently resulted in cops targeted for death by people buying the 'us versus them' attitude.

The police have had an us vs. them attitude for a long time. It is shitty that civilians are starting to buy into that but who couldn't see that happening?

I know. That's stupid on the part of civilians. The criminals are the only ones that should think of themselves as 'them'.

I'm on the 'us' side of the equation alongside cops. I don't break the law and I value their efforts to uphold it.

What bothers me is that you hold citizens to higher standards than police.
Your expectations are jacked. A highly trained professional officer is allowed to suspend judgement and act out of fear at the mere suggestion of a weapon, but when a cop points a weapon in a citizens face, the citizen is expected to keep their cool, follow directions, and remain calm.
That's just fucked.

I give police the right to protect themselves. I ask citizens to comply with the police.

If a citizen doesn't comply, resists, and is shot as a result... what can you say? I am not going to say cops need to exercise unbelievable restraint when dealing with confrontational people at the point of arrest- especially when doing so might place their lives at risk.

Don't want to get shot? Comply. Better yet... don't break the law.

Edit: what is f**ked is your eagerness to hold the bar so low for citizens... as if it is their right to not only break it, but resist it in a last ditch effort to avoid arrest.

That sounds like a direct quote from an SS officer.

I hope you never have to be put in a situation where a cop is losing his shit and pointing weapons at you for simply asking questions, but it would be nice to see you learn a little humility. "Just comply", right like it's so easy to comply when your being tased for asking what you did wrong.

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dignin said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

"Wow. Another black guy got shot by a cop!"
- implies cops mowing down black guys fueled by racist attitudes

"Wow. Another black guy resisting arrest got shot by a cop!"
- implies guy at point of arrest challenged cops and got shot for doing so

Which of the big profile cases were of the first variety? I can think of Tamir Rice and the recent one in Minnesota off the top of my head.

The other cases I'm remembering were of the second variety. And being of the second variety, in many circles including ones here, a very significant part of the equation is consistently left out- damning cops in the process and nurturing the 'us versus them' attitude which has recently resulted in cops targeted for death by people buying the 'us versus them' attitude.

The police have had an us vs. them attitude for a long time. It is shitty that civilians are starting to buy into that but who couldn't see that happening?

I know. That's stupid on the part of civilians. The criminals are the only ones that should think of themselves as 'them'.

I'm on the 'us' side of the equation alongside cops. I don't break the law and I value their efforts to uphold it.

What bothers me is that you hold citizens to higher standards than police.
Your expectations are jacked. A highly trained professional officer is allowed to suspend judgement and act out of fear at the mere suggestion of a weapon, but when a cop points a weapon in a citizens face, the citizen is expected to keep their cool, follow directions, and remain calm.
That's just fucked.

I give police the right to protect themselves. I ask citizens to comply with the police.

If a citizen doesn't comply, resists, and is shot as a result... what can you say? I am not going to say cops need to exercise unbelievable restraint when dealing with confrontational people at the point of arrest- especially when doing so might place their lives at risk.

Don't want to get shot? Comply. Better yet... don't break the law.

Edit: what is f**ked is your eagerness to hold the bar so low for citizens... as if it is their right to not only break it, but resist it in a last ditch effort to avoid arrest.

That sounds like a direct quote from an SS officer.

I hope you never have to be put in a situation where a cop is losing his shit and pointing weapons at you for simply asking questions, but it would be nice to see you learn a little humility. "Just comply", right like it's so easy to comply when your being tased for asking what you did wrong.

Resort to dramatics in the face of a losing argument. RG... come on, man.

Is this your comeback to a very simple truth?

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Go Beavers said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dignin said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

"Wow. Another black guy got shot by a cop!"
- implies cops mowing down black guys fueled by racist attitudes

"Wow. Another black guy resisting arrest got shot by a cop!"
- implies guy at point of arrest challenged cops and got shot for doing so

Which of the big profile cases were of the first variety? I can think of Tamir Rice and the recent one in Minnesota off the top of my head.

The other cases I'm remembering were of the second variety. And being of the second variety, in many circles including ones here, a very significant part of the equation is consistently left out- damning cops in the process and nurturing the 'us versus them' attitude which has recently resulted in cops targeted for death by people buying the 'us versus them' attitude.

The police have had an us vs. them attitude for a long time. It is shitty that civilians are starting to buy into that but who couldn't see that happening?

I know. That's stupid on the part of civilians. The criminals are the only ones that should think of themselves as 'them'.

I'm on the 'us' side of the equation alongside cops. I don't break the law and I value their efforts to uphold it.

What bothers me is that you hold citizens to higher standards than police.
Your expectations are jacked. A highly trained professional officer is allowed to suspend judgement and act out of fear at the mere suggestion of a weapon, but when a cop points a weapon in a citizens face, the citizen is expected to keep their cool, follow directions, and remain calm.
That's just fucked.

I give police the right to protect themselves. I ask citizens to comply with the police.

If a citizen doesn't comply, resists, and is shot as a result... what can you say? I am not going to say cops need to exercise unbelievable restraint when dealing with confrontational people at the point of arrest- especially when doing so might place their lives at risk.

Don't want to get shot? Comply. Better yet... don't break the law.

Edit: what is f**ked is your eagerness to hold the bar so low for citizens... as if it is their right to not only break it, but resist it in a last ditch effort to avoid arrest.

And when you're following the law, but police treat you like you are not? Then what?

Then after navigating yourself through that encounter with as much politeness as possible, you say to yourself, "Wow. What a f**king asshole!" And carry on with your day.

So when a government entity repeatedly abuses its power, people should just "carry on with their day" like nothing happened? I guess it's fine if it's someone else who is losing their freedoms.

http://gawker.com/video-shows-unarmed-black-man-pleading-with-arms-raised-1784004594

Cliffy6745 said:

http://gawker.com/video-shows-unarmed-black-man-pleading-with-arms-raised-1784004594

Brutal. Won't try and defend this one. Just brutal.

Cliffy6745 said:

http://gawker.com/video-shows-unarmed-black-man-pleading-with-arms-raised-1784004594

Yeah, I guess that kinda voided my previous comments about resisting arrest.

Pretending that the lack of respect for police by some people hasn't played a large part in the developments and police shootings is ignorant.

Pretending that some cops haven't created a sense of distrust in the communities they work via their racist speech and, in my opinion, blatant overuse of power (illegitimate stops, etc) is also ignorant.

We don't need to blame just 1, we need to fix both. Police forces need to stop protecting bad (and sometimes criminal cops). This also highlights a major issue I have with unions in general. The police need to become more open, transparent. They need to get rid of their own trash. They need to help start the healing. Once they do, the community better follow (and it should).

The community also has to stop pretending that all the people shot by cops are innocent. The vast majority are criminals, have history of criminal activity, have been committing a crime just prior to the incident. They are not saints. Do they deserve to be shot? Not always for sure, but again, like Johnny Manzell, you put yourself in bad positions enough times and bad shit happens.

Cliffy6745 said:

http://gawker.com/video-shows-unarmed-black-man-pleading-with-arms-raised-1784004594

This may be the most ignorant thing I've ever seen. The sooner trigger happy douche bags like this get weeded out, the better. At least he was a bad enough shot that it didn't kill that poor guy.

rgambs said:

Clearly, there is no reason for black people to fear the police.
Just comply and everything will be fine.
Stop breaking the law.

This is the only example that I've seen where the was no resisting involved. If you have other examples of this happening, share them.

rgambs said:

Degeneratefk said:

rgambs said:

Clearly, there is no reason for black people to fear the police.
Just comply and everything will be fine.
Stop breaking the law.

This is the only example that I've seen where the was no resisting involved. If you have other examples of this happening, share them.

I don't, but if you choose to believe that this first definitive video represents the first instance of this happening, there is no reason to bother continuing the discussion.

These sorts of incidents are something the black community has lived with from the very beginning.
When a black man who hasn't broken the law is suspicious of police and "resists" an unjust detainment, perhaps people should remember this video when they wonder why trust is lacking.

I'm not saying cops haven't shot people in the past for little to no reason. What I'm saying goodbye is that your narrative that cops are walking around killing black people for no reason is not valid. Of all of the videos of cops killing people, there has been 1 common theme: resisting.

This particular shooting is obviously an exception to that. And there is no doubt this cop should be locked up.