Dream the dreams of other men

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  • Always felt that if you steer your dreams too close to someone else than you will never elevate yourself to someone that others would see as a rival. You would simply become a follower not a leader.
    The second part, Dream the Dream that others have, you'll be no ones rival further hammers down the fact that you should live to no one else's ideals but your own.
    -Frank
  • myramyra Posts: 1,257
    DangDang wrote:
    Dream the dreams of other men, to me, is like the same as "walk a mile in my shoes"

    As in, "Walk in my shoes, dream my dreams, and THEN you will understand me and we will then not be rivals."

    You don't have to give up your own dreams, you can dream the dreams of other men also. Just like after you walk that mile, and give back the moccasins, or bowling shoes--whatever, you put your own two shoes back on.


    Agreed.
    If you can understand what another dreams of and even dream that dream for a while, then you can understand them for real. Then you can't be their rival, because you realize that down the line, we're all the same, and we share the same hopes, aspirations and feelings.
  • I can't quite separate the line from the whole song, so bear with me as I regurgitate what I took from the song...

    I get this feeling at the beginning of observing yourself and noticing that you're aware of the negative things you think to yourself. I don't know if that made sense :?... Anyhow he goes on and talks about all these good things, like finding evidence that your worth keeping, but then he mentions being swallowed whole in negatives. I kinda relate this to how sometimes we have this positive attitude and somehow all these negative thoughts just barge and kill this good spirit we got. and throughout the song I just keep getting that feeling like he's referring to that. Our not being confident in ourselves, our doubts and things that keep us from seeing the beauty of the world and all the things to do and all that's out there waiting for us...

    And then when I get to that dreams line, I picture a huge race, with everyone dreaming of being first place. And the first time he says you'll be no one's rival, I think about how I'd look at all the racers and think, "I can't even come close to compete with these people..." But then, the second time, It's like, "I can do this, I can be great and no one will be my rival". As in, I'll be able to get that first place.

    Overall I just get that motivation vibe. Like, yeah the world is beautiful and there's so much to live and all, and yeah you have those negative thoughts that can blind you and hold you back, but you gotta give it a try and work past them to reach that fulfillment in life.

    Well yeah, just my thoughts on the song anyway. It rocks!!!
  • myramyra Posts: 1,257
    Great first post !
  • eknuckles wrote:
    I can't quite separate the line from the whole song, so bear with me as I regurgitate what I took from the song...

    I get this feeling at the beginning of observing yourself and noticing that you're aware of the negative things you think to yourself. I don't know if that made sense :?... Anyhow he goes on and talks about all these good things, like finding evidence that your worth keeping, but then he mentions being swallowed whole in negatives. I kinda relate this to how sometimes we have this positive attitude and somehow all these negative thoughts just barge and kill this good spirit we got. and throughout the song I just keep getting that feeling like he's referring to that. Our not being confident in ourselves, our doubts and things that keep us from seeing the beauty of the world and all the things to do and all that's out there waiting for us...

    And then when I get to that dreams line, I picture a huge race, with everyone dreaming of being first place. And the first time he says you'll be no one's rival, I think about how I'd look at all the racers and think, "I can't even come close to compete with these people..." But then, the second time, It's like, "I can do this, I can be great and no one will be my rival". As in, I'll be able to get that first place.

    Overall I just get that motivation vibe. Like, yeah the world is beautiful and there's so much to live and all, and yeah you have those negative thoughts that can blind you and hold you back, but you gotta give it a try and work past them to reach that fulfillment in life.

    Well yeah, just my thoughts on the song anyway. It rocks!!!

    :wave: welcome !
    cool first post, love your interpretation of the song, especially the part about negativeness and how it swallows us up sometimes even if we try and keep a positive attitude

    love the song
  • BhagavadGitaBhagavadGita Posts: 1,748
    It feels like it is saying to put yourself in another's shoes, simply being compassionate maybe.
  • Big Drop wrote:
    Dream the dreams of other men, you'll be no one's RIVAL!

    STAND AGAINST THE MASSES! DO NOT BE A LEMMING! DO NOT BE A MINDLESS SHEEP FOLLOWING HIS SHEPARD TO THE SLAUGHTERHOUSE! DREAM YOUR OWN DREAMS! PLAY THE VILLAIN IN THE MINDS OF THE IGNORANT! THIS IS YOUR LIFE.

    The thoughts of geniuses have always been criticized by those with minds too narrow to comprehend. Would you dream the dreams of Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, etc., just to fit in?

    I know those are extreme examples but understand that this song is not about complacency, it's about standing up and calling bullshit when you see it. The weak are always intimidated by the strong. Don't buy into the weak masses! Be the strong individual!

    Dream your dreams! Live your life! Fuck every son of a bitch who says "you can't." Prove them wrong. Be the rival.

    Totally agree with you here.

    This lyric reminds me of The Giver by Louis Lowry. A novel for upper elementary and middle school students.

    Johan the main character is able to dream in color and soon see in color. For everything in this society is set. Your role is selected early in life. Things loose color, feelings, and emotion.

    It is a eutopia which he wants no part of. An incredible book and song.

    I have stated before but here again, I believe this song was influenced by the children's book Where The Wild Things Are.
  • BhagavadGitaBhagavadGita Posts: 1,748
    Dream the dreams of other men, you'll be no one's RIVAL!

    This lyrics has intrigued me more than anything else on the album. I can't stop thinking about it.

    On first thought, its goes against the common belief in society about the importance of indivdual dreams and the pursuit of your dreams. So why would you dream the dream of other men? I think he might be saying that if we are able to put ourselves in someone's or a group of people's mindset by dreaming their dreams instead of our own, maybe we can get along. How can you be someone's rival or enemy if you share or at least understand their dreams.

    What do you think about this lyric? Am I close?

    Absolutely. No doubt in my mind that is we had a machine where we could put a hat on and feel another person's perspective especially "an enemy" there would be so much empathy and regret for how you judged them. If you want for others what they dream of themselves..without knowing it you are spreading selflessness and the idea that to be a full human is to understand each other and to know we all have pain, And knowing that someone believes in you makes the other healed of pain.

    I wake up with that lyric in my head sometimes. :)
  • big mickbig mick Hull UK Posts: 773
    Always felt that if you steer your dreams too close to someone else than you will never elevate yourself to someone that others would see as a rival. You would simply become a follower not a leader.
    The second part, Dream the Dream that others have, you'll be no ones rival further hammers down the fact that you should live to no one else's ideals but your own.
    I hear the sound of a nail being banged firmly on the head! Love this!
    Reading England 2006, Manchester England 2009, London England 2010, Manchester 1 2012, EV London 1 2012
  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    DangDang wrote:
    Dream the dreams of other men, to me, is like the same as "walk a mile in my shoes"

    As in, "Walk in my shoes, dream my dreams, and THEN you will understand me and we will then not be rivals."

    This is what I think it means: an understanding among one another. I agree that's about love like Weenie mentioned, but more than anything, an understanding between others and ourselves. There are no enemies (or rivals) where there is understanding.
  • phungiphungi Posts: 639
    According to the author:
    "It's about a conversation with Catherine Keener, and a book – I think it might have even been called Unthought Known. I got back late to my hotel in New York, and I pushed it that extra hour. I pushed the limits of how much you can drink and smoke, and this song came out of it. I think the thought of the song is that there are things that you know, and they're in us, but we just haven't thought of them. But they're there, and we base decisions on them."

    The "book" was likely an edited work, which included the article titled "Embeddedness, Reflection, Mindfulness and the Unthought Known" by Michael Robbins... you can read the original article as a PDF through this link (Google account required). Alternatively, for a blogger's review, read: http://www.coolerthanthecat.com/2009/09 ... -head.html
    34 PJ Shows, 3 EV Shows, 1059 Total Songs, 23 Different Openers, 8 Different Closers, 222 Unique Songs (never enough)
  • I thought it said something else. I have two versions.

    I thought it was "between the dreams of other men" and a name in there too... whatever. :D
  • Where would we be if we all got along and shared the same vision?
    To grow we need to think outside the square, and yes we will come across opposition, but that is life. It strengthens us and teaches us to believe in ourselves.

    On the other hand, you could just follow others in order to make them happy...
    Strength in individuality
  • This is one of my favourite songs and favourite lyric. After varied personal interpretations over the years, to me the line now reflects on the importance of being true to what can be good and positive within a person - on how meaningless life is when thoughtlessly follow and strive to fit in with the masses that often do not have these things in mind. Our head filled with what others believe we should believe; what others tell us we should be, endless and saturating our beings, "oh are you sinking?" So many schemes masked as choices, and none feel right, "which road you taking?" We are subsumed by doubt, lost in a sea of voices we have trapped in our heads. These thoughts permeate your mind and soul to the point that you are no longer living here in the present, your mind lost somewhere else. But if you are lucky, you are met with one profound moment in which you feel that there is more- and all at once, you decide you will stand with what you know to be good - in you, in others, in this world - that powerful connection to something positive makes itself known. In this world this is an incredibly difficult thing to find and an even more difficult thing to live. Buried beneath so many layers of stories, scripts, private interests, deception, and pressures to conform to the ‘normal’ way of life that we have taken as our own, suppress our longing for a good, meaningful connection to other people and to the earth: here and now. At first you struggle, but soon find unbelievable beauty and freedom you thought you'd forgotten or maybe never existed. A path seemingly "cut by the moon". Other men's dreams are often rife with carelessness. Doing what you feel is right and going against the dominant preconceptions will find you with rivals. But if you don’t, “what you giving?”

    This is one of those lyrics that in my mind epitomizes the depth and soul of Eddie Vedder and Pearl Jam. I have no doubt i wil discover something new about it in the years to come.
  • karmadefectkarmadefect Posts: 806
    For me it means that if you put your energy into something someone else wants or believes and not into what you want you won't have any rivals, but you also won't get any profound satisfaction.
    To me it says follow your own corse even if it will upset some other people.
    It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me.

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  • Bushleaguer666Bushleaguer666 Long IslandPosts: 45

    Hey there! I’m only a brand newby to 10C but I’ve been keeping an ear and eye on PJ since the heady early days and I am not usually so swayed into the whole fan club thing. You are all quite a unique and wonderful bunch of people and though I just love to take a quiet seat at the back and listen I had to come down to the field this time!!! This song Unthought Known has dragged me in here not so kicking and screaming but with sheer exhilaration ‘cause I was at the Adelaide concert and this one rang out like a soul anthem that left me with tears of recognition and understanding I just had to come say something here. It struck me at first listen of Backspacer and I was so swept up hearing it live. If you’ll indulge me here’s what I think…



    “All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible.”

    TE Lawrence "Seven Pillars of Wisdom"



    This of course is “Lawrence of Arabia”…men like this with nothing to gain for themselves personally but see their purpose in fighting for the rights of others who can only but dream. Yes it’s a much bigger and grander dream than most of us can imagine but we can all dream the dreams of other men…fight for the one’s who can’t fight for themselves. This is a song to encourage those that “can” do something “should” do something because out of this comes your own reckoning and sometimes just every now and then, legends are born. Of course most of us won’t become legend on this scale but we can become legend in our own lives. We spend so much time thinking and often wallowing in our own pity of what we don’t have, or what we could have been, or what we think we deserve. Now what about “All the thoughts…you never see”!!!! We are all burdened with the capacity for greatness but few of us ever realise our worth and pursue it. The point being…what are you thinking about and are you going to be stuck just thinking, are you going under with all this thinking? Maybe our escape is when thinking turns into action.



    Dreams aren’t just for the mind to wander off in fantasy…they are for living with purpose so you don’t have to try and “white knuckle it” every day! Don’t just think…dream…and don’t just dream…dream the dreams of other men…don’t just dream the dreams of other men…dream the dreams of other men with your eyes wide open!! It’s the thoughts that trap us and hold us captive not the living. This is a call to arms folks…arm yourself with love and dreams…”you’ll be no one’s rival”…no one can hold you back or will want to hold you back, no matter how small or large the difference you make will be. It probably won’t be Lawrence of Arabia epic proportions but wherever you are and whatever you are doing, there is a purpose for you and if you can’t find it then open your eyes when you dream! You don’t know what you might start and it may just grow to proportions you could have never imagined…“a path cut by the moon for you to walk on” “feel the sky blanket you with gems and rhinestones” “the waves on distant shores awaiting your arrival”. All this has been done just for you if only you will see yourself, your beauty and your worth, and your purpose in it. You will get more from your life when you consider what the person beside you is going through. Your life will get even bigger and more terrifying but so thrilling and satisfying when you do something that doesn’t benefit you but the one who can ONLY dream. If you can make it a reality for them “what you giving?” becomes a reality for you and not just a lyric in a brilliant song!



    Whew….that’s a ramble and a half!! Sorry.... ;) ... Well that’s what I think this song is saying! How do I know this...I was set on my own path out of the "darkness" many years back and its taking time but I am getting there. It's not "Lawrence of Arabia" but its my little purpose in life and it might just might make a difference :) Here's my mantra...."don't wait for the light at the end of the tunnel...stride down there and light the bloody thing yourself".



    Anyway that is what I hear in this song and I feel like I’ve been smacked in the choppers and screamed at "wake up and keep going"! :shock: Someone out there gets it!



    What a thrill…hehe…I’ll go back to the seats now but I doubt I’ll ever sit down again. So nice to be here! :D

    Cheers

    Shelley

    Wow, this is deep. I have to analyze your thoughts more. Out of all the PJ songs/lyrics, this one moves me the most and I don't know why, my eyes even water up. I don't understand what it means but you put a new perspective on it for me. Thank you.
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  • PapPap Aspra Spitia, GreecePosts: 22,376
    I think this line is all about understanding diversity and respect for differences = equality. For me, it goes hand in hand with the But if less is more, how you keepin score? lyric from Society. Don't forget that Unthought Known came out of a conversation with Catherine Keener. :wink: So, there must be a correlation.
    Ooh, yeah! All right!
    Were [Pearl] jammin
    I wanna [Pearl] jam it wid you.
    Were [Pearl] jammin, [Pearl] jammin
    And I hope you like [Pearl] jammin too.

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