Global warming

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  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,757
    edited April 2016
    rgambs said:

    tempo_n_groove said:

    brianlux said:

    polaris_x said:

    https://www.teslamotors.com/model3

    I caught a glimpse of what I believe was a Tesla the other day. The license plate read "NOE OIL".
    You'll still need oil to make that vehicle...But still a step in the right direction.
    That's the most compelling reason supporting the sustainable energy movement.
    The greatest folly of history will be that we burned all our oil for energy and didn't save any for the thousands of uses that are vital to modern medicine, science, and comfortable living. Fossil fuels are magical chemistry materials that won't easily be replicated.
    We can't make MRI machines out of sunlight, we can't turn wind into lifesaving dialysis machines, and we won't be able convert tidal, geothermal, or wave energy into polymers and alloys.
    True dat. Although I can't imagine that scientists won't eventually find some way to replace oil in manufacturing too.... it's mostly used for plastics and certain other chemical materials (there are tons of them, including asphalt, which is important), and lubricating machinery, no? I read that about 1/2 of a barrel of oil (in the average sense of course) goes to gasoline, another 1/3 of it goes to jet fuel and diesel, and the rest of it (so not all that much, actually) goes to everything else. If we can stop using gasoline, we've already solved half the problem. That is significant! And if we can get a stop further by replacing diesel too, even better. Not sure we should be in a huge hurry to replace jet fuel just for safety reasons/the pace of air travel technology, but eventually....
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    PJ_Soul said:

    rgambs said:

    tempo_n_groove said:

    brianlux said:

    polaris_x said:

    https://www.teslamotors.com/model3

    I caught a glimpse of what I believe was a Tesla the other day. The license plate read "NOE OIL".
    You'll still need oil to make that vehicle...But still a step in the right direction.
    That's the most compelling reason supporting the sustainable energy movement.
    The greatest folly of history will be that we burned all our oil for energy and didn't save any for the thousands of uses that are vital to modern medicine, science, and comfortable living. Fossil fuels are magical chemistry materials that won't easily be replicated.
    We can't make MRI machines out of sunlight, we can't turn wind into lifesaving dialysis machines, and we won't be able convert tidal, geothermal, or wave energy into polymers and alloys.
    True dat. Although I can't imagine that scientists won't eventually find some way to replace oil in manufacturing too.... it's mostly used for plastics and certain other chemical materials (there are tons of them, including asphalt, which is important), and lubricating machinery, no? I read that about 1/2 of a barrel of oil (in the average sense of course) goes to gasoline, another 1/3 of it goes to jet fuel and diesel, and the rest of it (so not all that much, actually) goes to everything else. If we can stop using gasoline, we've already solved half the problem. That is significant! And if we can get a stop further by replacing diesel too, even better. Not sure we should be in a huge hurry to replace jet fuel just for safety reasons/the pace of air travel technology, but eventually....
    Yes, it is both imperative to move from oil and difficult. For example, my understanding is that we still have not solved what is called "the solar power paradox" which basically informs that much oil and toxic materials are used to produce solar panels. I think technology will help solve many of the energy problems we face but it also seems that we need to conserve more than we are to buy us time to come up with these solutions. I hope the trajectories of oil depletion, climate change and energy alternatives align themselves in time and it makes sense that conserving would certainly go a long way toward that end.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • InHiding80
    InHiding80 Upland,CA Posts: 7,623
    More "Palin going full attention whore" news!

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/15/politics/sarah-palin-bill-nye-scientist/
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    For any of you who are among the 30% of Americans (30%!!... only in America) who do not believe in global warming (can we stop wussing out by calling it "climate change?"):

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/apr/15/march-temperature-smashes-100-year-global-record
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    brianlux said:

    For any of you who are among the 30% of Americans (30%!!... only in America) who do not believe in global warming (can we stop wussing out by calling it "climate change?"):

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/apr/15/march-temperature-smashes-100-year-global-record

    I call it climate change simply because we are still coming out of the last ice age so naturally the earth is warming... what else would it be doing. HOWEVER I do believe humans are contributing greatly to it and don't seem to give a toss cause hey!! more sunny days equals more beach days, YEAH!!! right? ;)
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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    catefrances said:

    brianlux said:

    For any of you who are among the 30% of Americans (30%!!... only in America) who do not believe in global warming (can we stop wussing out by calling it "climate change?"):

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/apr/15/march-temperature-smashes-100-year-global-record

    I call it climate change simply because we are still coming out of the last ice age so naturally the earth is warming... what else would it be doing. HOWEVER I do believe humans are contributing greatly to it and don't seem to give a toss cause hey!! more sunny days equals more beach days, YEAH!!! right? ;)
    Haha! Or as Neil Young, on an unusually warm day a few years ago said, "Hope you're enjoying the nice weather out there folks"... and then I'm pretty sure he did a :wink:
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    edited April 2016
    catefrances said:



    I call it climate change simply because we are still coming out of the last ice age so naturally the earth is warming... what else would it be doing. HOWEVER I do believe humans are contributing greatly to it and don't seem to give a toss cause hey!! more sunny days equals more beach days, YEAH!!! right? ;)

    it should be called global warming because that is the crux of the problem ... climate change is but one symptom, albeit the biggest one, of global warming ... but rising sea levels, changes in oceanic chemistry, etc ... are also symptoms ...

    it should also be called global warming because the solution to the problem is to stop the warming ...
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    polaris_x said:

    catefrances said:



    I call it climate change simply because we are still coming out of the last ice age so naturally the earth is warming... what else would it be doing. HOWEVER I do believe humans are contributing greatly to it and don't seem to give a toss cause hey!! more sunny days equals more beach days, YEAH!!! right? ;)

    it should be called global warming because that is the crux of the problem ... climate change is but one symptom, albeit the biggest one, of global warming ... but rising sea levels, changes in oceanic chemistry, etc ... are also symptoms ...

    it should also be called global warming because the solution to the problem is to stop the warming ...
    I agree and I don't want to suggest that rhetoric is the crux of the matter but I sometimes wonder if the change in language was not intentional. "Climate Change" has a softer sound to it than "Global Warming". Language is powerful and used by very clever people to sway opinion. Republican political strategist/ global warming denier Frank Luntz advocated for the term "climate change" because it sounds less frightening than "global warming".
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    brianlux said:

    polaris_x said:

    catefrances said:



    I call it climate change simply because we are still coming out of the last ice age so naturally the earth is warming... what else would it be doing. HOWEVER I do believe humans are contributing greatly to it and don't seem to give a toss cause hey!! more sunny days equals more beach days, YEAH!!! right? ;)

    it should be called global warming because that is the crux of the problem ... climate change is but one symptom, albeit the biggest one, of global warming ... but rising sea levels, changes in oceanic chemistry, etc ... are also symptoms ...

    it should also be called global warming because the solution to the problem is to stop the warming ...
    I agree and I don't want to suggest that rhetoric is the crux of the matter but I sometimes wonder if the change in language was not intentional. "Climate Change" has a softer sound to it than "Global Warming". Language is powerful and used by very clever people to sway opinion. Republican political strategist/ global warming denier Frank Luntz advocated for the term "climate change" because it sounds less frightening than "global warming".
    the problem with catering to the lowest common denominator is that you end up with legislation like in Mississippi and North Carolina ... you let the wrong people dictate everything ...
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    its also help if people knew the difference between climate and weather. ;)
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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    catefrances said:

    its also help if people knew the difference between climate and weather. ;)

    Yes! Great point, Cate!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    I was reading an article yesterday on sustainable architecture. one of the things it mentioned was that the electricity used to power ALL the air conditioning in the USA is greater than that used to power the entire continent of Africa. I found that quite disturbing.
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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    catefrances said:

    I was reading an article yesterday on sustainable architecture. one of the things it mentioned was that the electricity used to power ALL the air conditioning in the USA is greater than that used to power the entire continent of Africa. I found that quite disturbing.

    Holy shi.....
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    catefrances said:

    I was reading an article yesterday on sustainable architecture. one of the things it mentioned was that the electricity used to power ALL the air conditioning in the USA is greater than that used to power the entire continent of Africa. I found that quite disturbing.

    Here's what looks like a reliable reference to that disturbing bit of not-trivia (third paragraph of article):

    http://e360.yale.edu/feature/cooling_a_warming_planet_a_global_air_conditioning_surge/2550/

    "The United States has long consumed more energy each year for air conditioning than the rest of the world combined. In fact, we use more electricity for cooling than the entire continent of Africa, home to a billion people, consumes for all purposes. Between 1993 and 2005, with summers growing hotter and homes larger, energy consumed by residential air conditioning in the U.S. doubled, and it leaped another 20 percent by 2010. The climate impact of air conditioning our buildings and vehicles is now that of almost half a billion metric tons of carbon dioxide per year."

    And that was almost four years ago. Good grief!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    edited April 2016
    the article I was reading also said that australia has the only pure bee population in the world and if all the bees in the world were to die we'd have just 4 years of food to live on. :/ and you know what.. we used to have a lot of bees visit the tree that grows just outside our back door but these past few years I haven't seen them... it could be a simple case of their hive being moved elsewhere or....
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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    It was hard to avoid honey bees when I was a kid. They were all over the place. I hardly ever see them anymore. There are other pollinators... and I was just wondering- will they help? So I found this:

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/other-bee-species-subbing-for-honeybees/

    "We can't rely on the honeybee forever," says Blair Sampson, an entomologist with the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA). That's a problem, given that entomologists have yet to come up with a viable alternative. But researchers report that another bee known as the blue orchard, or Osmia lignaria, holds out promise of filling in the void."

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    brianlux said:

    It was hard to avoid honey bees when I was a kid. They were all over the place. I hardly ever see them anymore. There are other pollinators... and I was just wondering- will they help? So I found this:

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/other-bee-species-subbing-for-honeybees/

    "We can't rely on the honeybee forever," says Blair Sampson, an entomologist with the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA). That's a problem, given that entomologists have yet to come up with a viable alternative. But researchers report that another bee known as the blue orchard, or Osmia lignaria, holds out promise of filling in the void."

    how is it that it falls to entomologists to find a viable alternative to something that is so natural? oh hell lets not try and do all we can to protect and save the honey bee, lets just continue destroyers their environment and find another pollinator. simple. ;) ugh. humans are so friggin' arrogant at times its blinding.

    our local suburban council allows backyard bee hives but you have to apply so that your bee hive doesn't encroach on anothers territory. if theres already one close then youre out of luck.

    hear my name
    take a good look
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  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    catefrances said:

    brianlux said:

    It was hard to avoid honey bees when I was a kid. They were all over the place. I hardly ever see them anymore. There are other pollinators... and I was just wondering- will they help? So I found this:

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/other-bee-species-subbing-for-honeybees/

    "We can't rely on the honeybee forever," says Blair Sampson, an entomologist with the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA). That's a problem, given that entomologists have yet to come up with a viable alternative. But researchers report that another bee known as the blue orchard, or Osmia lignaria, holds out promise of filling in the void."

    how is it that it falls to entomologists to find a viable alternative to something that is so natural? oh hell lets not try and do all we can to protect and save the honey bee, lets just continue destroyers their environment and find another pollinator. simple. ;) ugh. humans are so friggin' arrogant at times its blinding.

    our local suburban council allows backyard bee hives but you have to apply so that your bee hive doesn't encroach on anothers territory. if theres already one close then youre out of luck.

    couldn't agree more ... hey - we are killing the bees that we rely on for life on this planet ... let's see if anyone else wants the job! ...
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    Good point Cate. Excellent point. It really illustrates our tendency to always look for a way around an environmental concern rather than look at it honestly and realistically. We humans think we are clever enough to continue to alter nature, extract beyond what the earth has to give, expand out population beyond a reasonable number and expect to somehow have it all our way.

    On another note- today is "Earth Day". I notice we do not have an Earth Day thread. And I hve not started one because, in what my be a selfish and immature response, I do not celebrate Earth Day. That's because for me, everyday is Earth Day. Not a day goes by that I don't think about the earth and thank Mother Nature for sustenance and beauty and feel concern for the health of the planet. Sometimes I wonder if I should be less selfish and participate on this day.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    B, as someone mentioned to GF on his Prince thread, venture into other forums.

    It's there.

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