San Bernardino Shootings Kill 14

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

JimmyV said:

BS44325 said:

Nothing wrong with being concerned about bigotry but maybe this thread should focus on how political correctness might have hindered prevention of the attack...

http://dailycaller.com/2015/12/11/whistleblower-feds-shut-down-terror-investigation-that-could-have-prevented-san-bernardino-attack/

Pretty classic of the AMT to always be concerned about the boogeyman on the right first.

Fair point.

Was it ever confirmed that the neighbors didn't speak up because they were scared of being accused of profiling? That too is a great concern.

That is what the neighbour said but who knows how much of that is true. Hindsight is 20:20.

Yeah, because the neighbor saw Arabs. That is it. You can't call cops just because you see Arabs. He never saw any suspicious activity.

Sometimes though "suspicious activity" can be as simple as seeing someone who looks out of place, looks like they don't belong, etc. Before that quickly gets turned around and someone accuses me of racism, understand that it isn't. A few months ago I returned home earlier than usual to find a strange teenager walking in the vicinity of a neighbor's driveway. It looked like he might have actually been in the driveway right before I caught sight of him, but I didn't actually see him there. We have a high school at the bottom of our street and there are teenagers around all the time...yet this kid INSTANTLY looked wrong. I didn't say anything to anyone, and two days later he was caught on a different neighbor's security camera, in their kitchen, robbing their house. I had seen him casing houses. Is there some hindsight there? Absolutely. But I still knew in the moment as I saw him that something wasn't right. Making the call to make a call when you see something isn't easy at all, and this kid was white. Racism never entered my mind. Had he not been white the decision to speak up would have been even more complicated. That is a concern.

PJ_Soul said:

But they weren't out of place. They were visiting the Arab family who lived on the street.

It's hard to argue with this. I would be far more concerned with the type of political correctness that might have impacted an FBI investigation as per the link above. Again...no one knows whether that investigation would have prevented anything but we cannot tie people's hands by shouting "racism". There is a middle ground.

PJ_Soul said:

But they weren't out of place. They were visiting the Arab family who lived on the street.

And the neighbor didn't say anything. That was the right decision. Other times not saying something may be the wrong decision. My point is that in this climate in which we live, in deciding whether or not to say something, we all have to weigh whether or not we will be labeled bigots, or racists, etc.

PJ_Soul said:

But they weren't out of place. They were visiting the Arab family who lived on the street.

Pakistani, actually.

I'm waiting to hear more about what the FBI is learning in terms of their motives and radicalization. I read this morning that the husband's brother was only nominally religious, dated non-Muslim girls, drank alcohol, and joined the Navy after high school. So what motivated this guy?

He and his wife may have been researching and planning a terror plot but it looks like they were putting it together on their own, without assistance from a formal group. I find their target very odd. If you want to make a big terrorist statement, you find a conspicuous target. As someone who works in public health, a group of health department employees at a holiday party is not my idea of a major target! They deservedly attracted plenty of attention, but workplace conflict aside, I think it's strange choice. If they were working with or trained by a terrorist group, I don't believe this is the target which would have been chosen.

The whole thing is so awful in so many ways that it's still hard for me to take it in. Leaving your 6 month old child an orphan? How can someone do that? She will grow up as the daughter of reviled killers, not great martyrs.

PJ_Soul said:

JimmyV said:

PJ_Soul said:

But they weren't out of place. They were visiting the Arab family who lived on the street.

And the neighbor didn't say anything. That was the right decision. Other times not saying something may be the wrong decision. My point is that in this climate in which we live, in deciding whether or not to say something, we all have to weigh whether or not we will be labeled bigots, or racists, etc.

Like in this case... some man decided it was his duty to call the cops because he saw men with turbans moving things around in the trunk of their car in a parking lot... and then security at a football stadium almost wouldn't let the into the game because of their turbans and told them not to wear them again if they came back. What. The. Fuck. So.... good for the guy who decided not to be PC?
This is the kind if thing that will happen over and over and over if people have the idea that profiling people is the best way to go rather than second guessing their paranoia and considering that maybe their fear isn't cool.

http://deadspin.com/sikh-fans-refused-entry-to-chargers-stadium-because-of-1747700888

it would help if people werent too fucking stupid to know who they are actually seeing.

PJ_Soul said:

mickeyrat said:

PJ_Soul said:

JimmyV said:

PJ_Soul said:

But they weren't out of place. They were visiting the Arab family who lived on the street.

And the neighbor didn't say anything. That was the right decision. Other times not saying something may be the wrong decision. My point is that in this climate in which we live, in deciding whether or not to say something, we all have to weigh whether or not we will be labeled bigots, or racists, etc.

Like in this case... some man decided it was his duty to call the cops because he saw men with turbans moving things around in the trunk of their car in a parking lot... and then security at a football stadium almost wouldn't let the into the game because of their turbans and told them not to wear them again if they came back. What. The. Fuck. So.... good for the guy who decided not to be PC?
This is the kind if thing that will happen over and over and over if people have the idea that profiling people is the best way to go rather than second guessing their paranoia and considering that maybe their fear isn't cool.

http://deadspin.com/sikh-fans-refused-entry-to-chargers-stadium-because-of-1747700888

it would help if people werent too fucking stupid to know who they are actually seeing.

So if this story was about 3 Muslim men wearing amamas (the Muslim turban) rather than 3 Sikh men wearing turbans it would be okay??

No. If people understood exactly what and who they were seeing instead of beinng ruled by fear and making erroneous judgements this wouldnt be an issue. Instead PEOPLE ARE TOO FUCKING STUPID TO UNDERSTAND EXCATLY WHAT THEY ARE SEEING.

More info on how government policy got in the way

http://abcnews.go.com/US/secret-us-policy-blocks-agents-social-media-visa/story?id=35749325

gimmesometruth27 said:

BS44325 said:

More info on how government policy got in the way

http://abcnews.go.com/US/secret-us-policy-blocks-agents-social-media-visa/story?id=35749325

sounds to me like you are in favor of profiling and less in favor of freedom.

I'm in favour of both. You want a K-1 Visa to come to my country? I don't care what religion you are...let me see your facebook page! Everytime I have hired an employee? I have googled them. Everytime I have rented an apartment? I have checked facebook. A country has both the freedom and the duty to know who is on their way.

I want to know who the FUCK just hands over their assault rifles.

"No need to worry about background checks or registration, just take 'em!"

(even typing that is messed up)

Hope that asshole friend/neighbor pays the price for his part in this.