Iran Deal, the reset..... and halt

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  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    rgambs said:

    If people want to criticize the lifting of the sanctions because it is fully possible that they will have increased economic capacity to sponsor terrorism, that is a legitimate criticism.

    I'm late to this party, but this point or argument is a bit confusing to me. Al Qaeda and ISIS, which are the major terrorist org right now, are both Sunni. Iran is Shia. Yes, they could funnel money to terrorists and theoretically they could have more money to give to terrorists with improved economic conditions, but our greatest threat in the region are currently Sunnis.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    mrussel1 said:

    rgambs said:

    If people want to criticize the lifting of the sanctions because it is fully possible that they will have increased economic capacity to sponsor terrorism, that is a legitimate criticism.

    I'm late to this party, but this point or argument is a bit confusing to me. Al Qaeda and ISIS, which are the major terrorist org right now, are both Sunni. Iran is Shia. Yes, they could funnel money to terrorists and theoretically they could have more money to give to terrorists with improved economic conditions, but our greatest threat in the region are currently Sunnis.
    Mostly just Hezbollah right now as I understand it. You hear a ton of rhetoric in the vein of "Iran is the number one state sponsor of terror in the world" but that's really just about as bullshit as it can be.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    mrussel1 said:

    rgambs said:

    If people want to criticize the lifting of the sanctions because it is fully possible that they will have increased economic capacity to sponsor terrorism, that is a legitimate criticism.

    I'm late to this party, but this point or argument is a bit confusing to me. Al Qaeda and ISIS, which are the major terrorist org right now, are both Sunni. Iran is Shia. Yes, they could funnel money to terrorists and theoretically they could have more money to give to terrorists with improved economic conditions, but our greatest threat in the region are currently Sunnis.
    SOME Sunnis.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    callen said:

    mrussel1 said:

    rgambs said:

    If people want to criticize the lifting of the sanctions because it is fully possible that they will have increased economic capacity to sponsor terrorism, that is a legitimate criticism.

    I'm late to this party, but this point or argument is a bit confusing to me. Al Qaeda and ISIS, which are the major terrorist org right now, are both Sunni. Iran is Shia. Yes, they could funnel money to terrorists and theoretically they could have more money to give to terrorists with improved economic conditions, but our greatest threat in the region are currently Sunnis.
    SOME Sunnis.
    I'm obviously not saying all Sunnis are a threat, but the point is that Iran is not going to be funding Sunni terrorist organizations. They are mortal enemies.
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    mrussel1 said:

    callen said:

    mrussel1 said:

    rgambs said:

    If people want to criticize the lifting of the sanctions because it is fully possible that they will have increased economic capacity to sponsor terrorism, that is a legitimate criticism.

    I'm late to this party, but this point or argument is a bit confusing to me. Al Qaeda and ISIS, which are the major terrorist org right now, are both Sunni. Iran is Shia. Yes, they could funnel money to terrorists and theoretically they could have more money to give to terrorists with improved economic conditions, but our greatest threat in the region are currently Sunnis.
    SOME Sunnis.
    I'm obviously not saying all Sunnis are a threat, but the point is that Iran is not going to be funding Sunni terrorist organizations. They are mortal enemies.
    Yeah knew you didn't mean all.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    So now an ad was posted on the "Supreme leaders" Facebook or some social media page ,again wanting death to the U.S. And has a pic of Obama with a gun to his head.These are the folks we are removing sanctions on? I don't think this goes down with a congressional vote looming.
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,307
    Facebook or some social media page. it must be true.
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  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 31,541
    mickeyrat said:

    Facebook or some social media page. it must be true.

    Yeah it has to be true after all it's on the interweb ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    rr165892 said:

    So now an ad was posted on the "Supreme leaders" Facebook or some social media page ,again wanting death to the U.S. And has a pic of Obama with a gun to his head.These are the folks we are removing sanctions on? I don't think this goes down with a congressional vote looming.

    I believe it, but at the same time who would expect anything different right now? The supreme leader is a hard liner and needs to sell the deal to the hard liners in the country. These are the people that went through the revolution. But the deal was made due to pressure from the youth, IMO. The number of young people in Iran is astonishing, and they want non aggressive relationships with the West. But we should not expect rhetoric to change overnight. It will be almost impossible for Congress to kill the deal.
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,307
    The other parties can simply press forward for their end and tell us to fuck off.

    Congress needs to understand its a multilateral deal.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Cliffy6745
    Cliffy6745 Posts: 34,022
    mrussel1 said:

    rr165892 said:

    So now an ad was posted on the "Supreme leaders" Facebook or some social media page ,again wanting death to the U.S. And has a pic of Obama with a gun to his head.These are the folks we are removing sanctions on? I don't think this goes down with a congressional vote looming.

    I believe it, but at the same time who would expect anything different right now? The supreme leader is a hard liner and needs to sell the deal to the hard liners in the country. These are the people that went through the revolution. But the deal was made due to pressure from the youth, IMO. The number of young people in Iran is astonishing, and they want non aggressive relationships with the West. But we should not expect rhetoric to change overnight. It will be almost impossible for Congress to kill the deal.
    I think this is a pretty important point. I heard an interview that there is no reason to trust the government and this deal is not about trusting them. If they try to break the deal they will be caught. What this does impact is the young people who aren't closed off to the West and want a relationship with the west. They look up to western culture and want that. This is not a country of people who entirely hate us.
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    Agreed.But how do you get the progressive minded youth to be louder then the hardline Islamic nut jobs ?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    rr165892 said:

    Agreed.But how do you get the progressive minded youth to be louder then the hardline Islamic nut jobs ?

    Empower them! Make it possible for them to beat back the religinuts with a modern, progressive economy where choice is king. As the science and tech industries grow more people of moderate or progressive mindsets will be wealthy and powerful enough to influence government. Lifting the sanctions should help that immensely, though it is not a without risk.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    rgambs said:

    rr165892 said:

    Agreed.But how do you get the progressive minded youth to be louder then the hardline Islamic nut jobs ?

    Empower them! Make it possible for them to beat back the religinuts with a modern, progressive economy where choice is king. As the science and tech industries grow more people of moderate or progressive mindsets will be wealthy and powerful enough to influence government. Lifting the sanctions should help that immensely, though it is not a without risk.
    I can see that working.I have no prob getting behind that way of thinking.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    rr165892 said:

    rgambs said:

    rr165892 said:

    Agreed.But how do you get the progressive minded youth to be louder then the hardline Islamic nut jobs ?

    Empower them! Make it possible for them to beat back the religinuts with a modern, progressive economy where choice is king. As the science and tech industries grow more people of moderate or progressive mindsets will be wealthy and powerful enough to influence government. Lifting the sanctions should help that immensely, though it is not a without risk.
    I can see that working.I have no prob getting behind that way of thinking.
    All this is true.. But the biggest advantage is time...The hard liners have to die out or relinquish power. Revolution was 35 years ago. These men are in their 60's and 70's now. Just like we needed the baby boomers to relinquish power here.
  • Cliffy6745
    Cliffy6745 Posts: 34,022
    An absolute ton of support

    http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/07/the-iran-debate-moves-on/399713/
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,307
    Cliffy6745 said:

    An absolute ton of support

    http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/07/the-iran-debate-moves-on/399713/

    Good stuff.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    Ran across this today and think it really backs up what some of you were saying about allowing the change in Iran to come from with.Quick read,good story from CNN.maybe change is coming soon?
    http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/03/opinions/fathi-time-to-retire-death-to-america/?iid=ob_article_organicsidebar_expansion&iref=obnetwork
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,307
    edited August 2015
    As with Cuba, my opinion is the isolation has only served to keep the regime in power. So having an openness with the west can only in time, erode the status quo in those countries. There will of course be the hold outs here and there seeking to preserve the status quo , but its only a matter of time before the change does in fact occur.
    Post edited by mickeyrat on
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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    rr165892 said:

    Ran across this today and think it really backs up what some of you were saying about allowing the change in Iran to come from with.Quick read,good story from CNN.maybe change is coming soon?
    http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/03/opinions/fathi-time-to-retire-death-to-america/?iid=ob_article_organicsidebar_expansion&iref=obnetwork

    It's so refreshing to see a conservative who looks at issues and searches for sense and reason instead of just jumping into the expected conservative response!
    :smiley:
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?

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