Iran Deal, the reset..... and halt

Aafke said:

First of all I am no American but European, and therefor I do not operate from the principle of American Exceptionalism. Second of all I think these principle of American Exceptionalism, is one of the main problems, Western societies think so highly of themselves, the right way to see the world is our way... But so does a part of the Muslim culture, which rage against the western world, so there´s one example of a common ground for you. To be more specific, this isn´t an exclusive American problem, it´s a western problem or maybe even an universal problem.... But by raging against one another the only gain will be war and grief. If we don´t want it to happen we have to start a movement based on common grounds and companionship, instead of hatred and dividing.

Halifax2TheMax said:

Jason P said:

And the theory of exceptionalism doesn't apply to Iran? A country that despises Western culture and influence and see themselves as superior?

Iran, according to wiki, Last Week with Jon Oliver, and other esteemed news sources chants "Death to America" after weekly Friday prayers (T.G.I.F!) and other public events. They have been doing this on a regular basis for all of my life.

So while we have a pity party over how we Americans are oppressive fucks, do any of us really think Iran would sign and agree to any deal outside of us bowing for forgiveness while lifting all sanctions and promising to send them a bunch of Doritos and dip as repercussions? Do you really think we will be smoking peace pipes and chanting kumbaya if an agreement is signed?

Iran's hard liners make the neocons look like a bunch of Girl Scouts.

No, it doesn't. They don't despise western culture. Some conservatives in their clerical leadership might despise western culture just as some conservatives here would like to, "take their country back." Iran has one of the youngest demographics in the developing world. A younger generation hungry for western pop cultural and increased ties and relations with the west. The aging clerics realize they need the economy back and they need to appeal to and satisfy their up and coming generation. Otherwise, they're going to have major domestic unrest. Have you ever met anyone from Iran? Had a conversation with them? Been to Iran or spoken with someone who has traveled there? Iranians don't hate the US. The average Iranian would like for nothing more than to have peace between our countries and decent relations. These are the folks Obama is trying to appeal to and having a 10 year framework to appeal further and build mutual trust is what he's trying to accomplish. As BB pointed out, after we fucked them from 1954-1979, is it any wonder government directed elements parade around chanting death to America? I don't know where Iran is heavily influencing culture or trying to strong arm nations into a similar governing systems nor do I see them acting superior. Superior where and to who? Very unlike this country. News alert, not everyone wants to live under a western democratic capitalist system.

Nixon went to China, Reagan met with Gorbachev, Clinton opened relations with Vietnam and sent former Senator Mitchell to Ireland. All of these were much more preferable than "bombing", "going to war" or being isolationist. Difficult work ahead? Sure. Impossible? No. Going to war is easy and a sign of weakness and should be considered only as a last resort. You have to start somewhere and as john Lennon once said, "give peace a chance." Something I'm willing to try before embarking on another war of choice.

And how do you describe John Bolton who wrote an op-ed published in the NYT calling for the bombing of Iran because, "it's the only thing they understand?" Or McCain singing bomb, bomb, bomb Iran? Or, well the Bush administration that invaded Iraq, killing 4000+ Americans and upwards of a million Iraqis? Girl Scouts? Hardly.

And my guess on BS, he's heavily invested in oil and defense industry stocks. Turn off the war drums and wait to see what happens around June 30th when the details of the framework agreement are supposed to be codified into a substantive agreement that both sides take back to their governments for approval.

hedonist said:

My mother is Persian, and given that all but less than a handful of my German father's relatives lived through the Holocaust, my mom's side - huge family between here in LA, in NY and in London - and that Iranian culture - have been a constant.

Definitely for better and worse. But whatever - part of me.

We spent a summer in Tehran before the revolution and while it was so beautifully welcoming and sensual, warm and colorful (bless the food but fuck the traffic!), there was also a sense of oppression, of that have-to-look-around and check yourself feeling. Not in the usual (common) sense, but in a you-might-be-seriously-fucked-with sense.

Have mentioned before about having grown men at a construction site throwing stones at my physically-developed but eleven-year-old self. I will never forget it, their anger - such anger; how within whatever tenet can you reconcile your actions and conscience? - toward a girl wearing a tube top because it was hot.

Fuck that, and fuck them. You don't do that. You don't act like that.

And within my own family, I see prejudice that breaks my heart. Not necessarily an anti-US stance - the first generation came here in the late 40s with pretty much nothing and built businesses, families, communities, lives. But there is much close-mindedness in many veins. Traditions and lifestyles to be upheld, and attempts - from the older generation - to shame those who value choice and forging their / our own paths.

All that said, I wouldn't be myself without all of that, good, bad or within the spectrum.

Didn't intend to so ramble on! Just wanted to give my perspective.