Why does the power of wealth always trump doing what makes sense?
Comments
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Peace of mind isn't materialistic Riotgrl.Sometimes that is the by product.riotgrl said:Why is the only option capitalism or socialism? What about localism? What about working together as a community to achieve common goals? The heart of capitalism is profit and that is achieved through competition. I think it is to entirely untrue to say that 'if you work hard, you'll get ahead.' Aren't there advantages we are given or born with that contribute to our (material) success? And, really, isn't material success what we really mean when we talk about the benefits of capitalism?
Globalization is a huge part of the problem IMO. The only way to be a (materially) successful person/country/corporation is to participate in the global economy and that is fully rooted in capitalism.0 -
True but peace of mind is might be better achieved at the local level. I'd love to see the local eating movement extend to other areas of our lives!rr165892 said:
Peace of mind isn't materialistic Riotgrl.Sometimes that is the by product.riotgrl said:Why is the only option capitalism or socialism? What about localism? What about working together as a community to achieve common goals? The heart of capitalism is profit and that is achieved through competition. I think it is to entirely untrue to say that 'if you work hard, you'll get ahead.' Aren't there advantages we are given or born with that contribute to our (material) success? And, really, isn't material success what we really mean when we talk about the benefits of capitalism?
Globalization is a huge part of the problem IMO. The only way to be a (materially) successful person/country/corporation is to participate in the global economy and that is fully rooted in capitalism.Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE0 -
Very true - and riotgrl, that's what I spoke to earlier; there's a middle common-sense ground to be found...that I wish would be found.rr165892 said:
Peace of mind isn't materialistic Riotgrl.Sometimes that is the by product.riotgrl said:Why is the only option capitalism or socialism? What about localism? What about working together as a community to achieve common goals? The heart of capitalism is profit and that is achieved through competition. I think it is to entirely untrue to say that 'if you work hard, you'll get ahead.' Aren't there advantages we are given or born with that contribute to our (material) success? And, really, isn't material success what we really mean when we talk about the benefits of capitalism?
Globalization is a huge part of the problem IMO. The only way to be a (materially) successful person/country/corporation is to participate in the global economy and that is fully rooted in capitalism.
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I want to believe that's true and maybe amongst the people here that could be true. Color me cynical but I think the very foundations of capitalism are founded on greed. Good people in the system, yes, but the system as a whole is broken and bound to collapse at some point. I believe that there are good people doing good things but my cynicism is specifically directed towards capitalism.hedonist said:
Very true - and riotgrl, that's what I spoke to earlier; there's a middle common-sense ground to be found...that I wish would be found.rr165892 said:
Peace of mind isn't materialistic Riotgrl.Sometimes that is the by product.riotgrl said:Why is the only option capitalism or socialism? What about localism? What about working together as a community to achieve common goals? The heart of capitalism is profit and that is achieved through competition. I think it is to entirely untrue to say that 'if you work hard, you'll get ahead.' Aren't there advantages we are given or born with that contribute to our (material) success? And, really, isn't material success what we really mean when we talk about the benefits of capitalism?
Globalization is a huge part of the problem IMO. The only way to be a (materially) successful person/country/corporation is to participate in the global economy and that is fully rooted in capitalism.Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE0 -
Hmm… Why does the power of wealth always trump doing what makes sense?
Way to derail… however, I do feel the foundation of this question lies in greed and capitalism. So we're not too far off base, but I've been following and it's constantly derailing…
Why is money more important than maintaining the health of our planet? Or making it more sustainable on a global scale? Why is money more important that 3rd world civilians? Why is it more important than taking care of each other? Why is it more important that the rich must be able to get richer while there are many living in poverty?
When will we all agree that it is in our best interest as a civilization to take care of everyone and not our damn investments, ROIs and getting richer?Post edited by backseatLover12 on0 -
Yikes! I apologize and expect some of the other posters in this thread to do so as well.backseatLover12 said:Hmm… Why does the power of wealth always trump doing what makes sense?
Way to derail… however, I do feel the foundation of this question lies in greed and capitalism. So we're not too far off base, but I've been following and it's constantly derailing…
Why is money more important than maintaining the health of our planet? Or making it more sustainable on a global scale? Why is money more important that 3rd world civilians? Why is it more important than taking care of each other? Why is it more important that the rich must be able to get richer while there are many living in poverty?
When will we all agree that it is in our best interest as a civilization to take care of everyone and not our damn investments, ROIs and getting richer?
I thought this had come to a very interesting (not to mention civil and worthwhile) discussion vs one of being incessantly off-topic. Some great points made all around, especially the acknowledgement that shades of gray can and do exist.
It's your thread though, so your call, and again I'm sorry.
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easy answer for me.
it makes the most sense to those with the most power and money to hold on to that power and money.
people with power look out for their own interests in most cases."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
I'm not one with power (the type of which I think most are referring to here), but I still put the interests of myself and my husband - our life, well-being - first and foremost.gimmesometruth27 said:easy answer for me.
it makes the most sense to those with the most power and money to hold on to that power and money.
people with power look out for their own interests in most cases.
Is that wrong?0 -
are you a koch brother?hedonist said:
I'm not one with power (the type of which I think most are referring to here), but I still put the interests of myself and my husband - our life, well-being - first and foremost.gimmesometruth27 said:easy answer for me.
it makes the most sense to those with the most power and money to hold on to that power and money.
people with power look out for their own interests in most cases.
Is that wrong?
are you a lobbiest for aipac?
are you a member of the oil or gun lobby?
if you answer yes, you are wrong.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
Trying to point out that the circle of defining wealth and power has many ripples.gimmesometruth27 said:
are you a koch brother?hedonist said:
I'm not one with power (the type of which I think most are referring to here), but I still put the interests of myself and my husband - our life, well-being - first and foremost.gimmesometruth27 said:easy answer for me.
it makes the most sense to those with the most power and money to hold on to that power and money.
people with power look out for their own interests in most cases.
Is that wrong?
are you a lobbiest for aipac?
are you a member of the oil or gun lobby?
if you answer yes, you are wrong.
A is OK; B, not so much. C, pending a decision.
What of other areas in which those of wealth choose to put their attention and funds? I don't ever want to become so cynical to become blind to the difference many, some, a few, or even one can make.
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it is a pretty simple issue to me.hedonist said:
Trying to point out that the circle of defining wealth and power has many ripples.gimmesometruth27 said:
are you a koch brother?hedonist said:
I'm not one with power (the type of which I think most are referring to here), but I still put the interests of myself and my husband - our life, well-being - first and foremost.gimmesometruth27 said:easy answer for me.
it makes the most sense to those with the most power and money to hold on to that power and money.
people with power look out for their own interests in most cases.
Is that wrong?
are you a lobbiest for aipac?
are you a member of the oil or gun lobby?
if you answer yes, you are wrong.
A is OK; B, not so much. C, pending a decision.
What of other areas in which those of wealth choose to put their attention and funds? I don't ever want to become so cynical to become blind to the difference many, some, a few, or even one can make.
if you are giving money to people to do things like harm our environment you are wrong.
if you are buying politicians who are in favor of corporations, in favor of big banks, in favor of wall street at the expense of the common person, and in denial of the dangers of carbon emissions that put billions of lives at risk, you are wrong.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
Yes - but "wrong" isn't as sliced-and-diced as made out to be. Sure those are great parameters but what about others that you may not agree with?
Actions have an effect and to put the consequences solely and always on power and bank accounts is somewhat misguided though I honestly appreciate the intent in raising the topic.
I just caught a story on the news of a 65-year-old woman with thirteen children now carrying quadruplets after many attempts at IVF. Because her youngest said she'd love to have another baby in the family. Really...the fuck?
This kind of shit has an effect too; all I ask is to not lose sight of individual actions, for better or worse, and money aside.0 -
actually, it was an interesting, respectful, and on-topic discussion without pretension or any condescension.backseatLover12 said:Hmm… Why does the power of wealth always trump doing what makes sense?
Way to derail… however, I do feel the foundation of this question lies in greed and capitalism. So we're not too far off base, but I've been following and it's constantly derailing…
Why is money more important than maintaining the health of our planet? Or making it more sustainable on a global scale? Why is money more important that 3rd world civilians? Why is it more important than taking care of each other? Why is it more important that the rich must be able to get richer while there are many living in poverty?
When will we all agree that it is in our best interest as a civilization to take care of everyone and not our damn investments, ROIs and getting richer?
Until now.
By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
I'm not sure how on-topic this has all been. What I'm mostly seeing here, after being gone all day what I'm mostly seeing here is posts about expensive sporting event tickets and an argument about weather or not capitalism is the problem.
The problem, as I see it and as is implied by the premise of this thread, is that people with the greatest amount of wealth and power are more caught up in their accumulation of power and wealth than they are in doing what makes sense which (at least the way I see it) would be to start getting down to the work of reducing the negative human impact on the environment and find some way to create better social harmony. And why this isn't happening is puzzling to me.
I saw a friend today who is fascinated by conspiracy theories and I asked her what she thought of all this. She believes that the planet is going to be made uninhabitable, that the powers that be are planning to exterminate most of us and then go underground and live in these big underground places that are going to be connect from coast to coast in the U.S. as well as throughout Russia by underground railways systems. She also believes there are giant's held captive in remote corners of the Grand Canyon. She also happens to be one of my best friends so go easy here.
Now of course I don't buy any of that but it makes about as much sense as what is happening which is that the people with the most money and power seem oblivious to the detrimental impact humans are having on environment, the idea that our species has reached the critical point as described by ecological sciences as "carrying capacity", the fact that we use up our annual allotment of resources each year by mid-August, that nuclear annihilation will only make cockroaches happy, that endless war has no purpose and that widespread social unrest will only lead to more chaos and unproductive conflict.
So who is more out of touch, my friend, me, or the majority of wealthy and powerful people who seem to be ignoring these problems? I'd say the latter, myself."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
We took a much needed day off today, even forgoing the opportunity to see my beloved Replacements in San Francisco, and took a walk along Folsom Lake to enjoy the lupines that in in full bloom this time of year. There is one little ravine leading into a small cove along the shore of the lake (a reservoir, actually) that the walk winds through that is lush and green this time of year and has a seasonal creek that runs through it down into the lake. I was thinking about this thread much of the day and as I emerged from this absolutely stunning little remnant of beautiful California foothills land, the haze of polluted sky and the view of hills already becoming parched came back into focus I felt like I was in a Twilight Zone where this one beautiful place was all that remained in a world turned to dust and ruin.
Yes, this sounds like overly emotive hyperbole and it really was a fine day but for a few seconds I truly felt like we were standing on the brink of the apocalypse. We are foolish to let this world go to ruin."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Nice personal dig there. And for what? Asking questions and reminding people that the thread has derailed a lot?HughFreakingDillon said:
actually, it was an interesting, respectful, and on-topic discussion without pretension or any condescension.backseatLover12 said:Hmm… Why does the power of wealth always trump doing what makes sense?
Way to derail… however, I do feel the foundation of this question lies in greed and capitalism. So we're not too far off base, but I've been following and it's constantly derailing…
Why is money more important than maintaining the health of our planet? Or making it more sustainable on a global scale? Why is money more important that 3rd world civilians? Why is it more important than taking care of each other? Why is it more important that the rich must be able to get richer while there are many living in poverty?
When will we all agree that it is in our best interest as a civilization to take care of everyone and not our damn investments, ROIs and getting richer?
Until now.Post edited by backseatLover12 on0 -
and it's not a level playing field no matter how much it comforts us to think so. Additionally some that think they struggled to succeed don't realize the benefits they actually receive.rgambs said:
NOTHING???rr165892 said:
NOTHING is wrong with capatitalism.You said it all above.hedonist said:What's wrong with capitalism - freedom to fail or succeed - and looking out for our fellow man as well? It's not either/or, black/white.
Dirty words are made that by the context in which they're used.
Come on now, that's a bit extreme.10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG0 -
I'd get behind that.Keep it community based.Who knows the needs of a community better then themselves.riotgrl said:
True but peace of mind is might be better achieved at the local level. I'd love to see the local eating movement extend to other areas of our lives!rr165892 said:
Peace of mind isn't materialistic Riotgrl.Sometimes that is the by product.riotgrl said:Why is the only option capitalism or socialism? What about localism? What about working together as a community to achieve common goals? The heart of capitalism is profit and that is achieved through competition. I think it is to entirely untrue to say that 'if you work hard, you'll get ahead.' Aren't there advantages we are given or born with that contribute to our (material) success? And, really, isn't material success what we really mean when we talk about the benefits of capitalism?
Globalization is a huge part of the problem IMO. The only way to be a (materially) successful person/country/corporation is to participate in the global economy and that is fully rooted in capitalism.0 -
Not at all.hedonist said:
I'm not one with power (the type of which I think most are referring to here), but I still put the interests of myself and my husband - our life, well-being - first and foremost.gimmesometruth27 said:easy answer for me.
it makes the most sense to those with the most power and money to hold on to that power and money.
people with power look out for their own interests in most cases.
Is that wrong?0 -
I think some of you need to be careful to not lump wealth with neglect of benevolence.Brian your statement above is basically calls out all the mega rich as only being concerned with earning more money.
Maybe that is the case with some ,but who are we to judge without knowing them as individuals?
This us vs them shit is kinda stupid.We all have good and bad and do what we can based on our resources.
Take Oprah for example.She has bukoo bucks,billions.Does she only worry about her empire and bottom line or does she put her money where her mouth is building schools and infrastructure in Africa and else where.Or does she not count because she backs Obama?
What about Gates?See not so cut and dry.How about Buffet or Allen? All do and give so very much.What makes us better then them?
Gimme,How much $$ did the Koch brothers and there companies or holdings give toward charities or worthy causes.I don't know the answer,but you should if your going to make those statements.I bet it's a fucking shitload.So I ask you,would you rather have the evil empire fund billions in help for those that need,while still profiting,or would we be better off without them and their charitable "blood" money?
And BSL,the flow of Ideas and opinions is what makes a convo flow.Everything discussed is a tangent to the original thought process.Again,relax a bit,let it unfold.It will be ok.Post edited by rr165892 on0
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