What the hell happened in Wisconsin?

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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    dignin said:

    brianlux said:

    Wow this thread... when the bullying posturing starts up it's time to shut this fucker down.

    Good grief and GOOD NIGHT!

    No shit. I'm out. There is no room for reasoned debate here.


    Bullying? Did I miss something?

    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    backseatLover12 said:


    HughFreakingDillon said:

    brianlux said:

    Serious issues sometimes call for serious emotions. I don't see what's wrong with that.


    But sweeping ridiculous false statements like bsl keeps spewing get annoying after a while. "Apathy for life", "regarding cops as saints". To be blunt, it's fucking stupid and childish to make statements like this to try to just get a reaction from others, especially when the evidence points to the direct opposite. We can discuss without half the thread being many of us refuting these ridiculous claims.
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    backseatLover12 said:

    The drama of the denial you people live in is really unbelievable. (Not specifically you, just all of you).

    And yet you don't understand how this can be viewed as coming off as self-righteous? Really?

    Explain how it is reality to believe that there is no police brutality especially with minority groups in the U.S.
    I dont believe there is no police brutality and issues with minority groups. I stated that very clearly a while back.

    Keep shouting.

    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    dignin said:

    brianlux said:

    Wow this thread... when the bullying posturing starts up it's time to shut this fucker down.

    Good grief and GOOD NIGHT!

    No shit. I'm out. There is no room for reasoned debate here.


    Correct, you left reasoned debate page 3.
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    backseatLover12 said:

    The police of yesteryear were cool, decent people who were in it for the right reasons (meaning, not for the power trip). We never heard of police brutality, and in dealing with cops busting up our parties, or being pulled over for speeding, or anything else for that matter, it was never a problem. They treated us with respect as fellow human beings, we got along, and ultimately we tried to stay away from them. We didn't question them because, due to our mutual respect, they sometimes gave us a break for speeding once in a while, or getting into some other kind of trouble, having beer parties, etc.

    The reason cops have a bad name now is because they overall stopped being those same decent people who gave us a break once in a while. Suddenly, some cops have a bone to pick with everyone, they have huge egos and they like carrying around a gun legally, and they like to show everyone who's boss. They stopped showing us respect, especially the white cops with minorities. They became more belligerent. They stopped letting us go with having a headlight out. Suddenly, now the police are using their gun to kill rather than to disarm and capture.

    Does anyone see the trend here. One day we have Ponch and Jon of Chips patrolling our highway - the nice guys keeping our area safe, the next - we have a cop, first one, then another, and another... killing because "he can". He has "the authority to". So it seems to me that the supporters are supporters of a police state. Because that's pretty much what we've become.

    Good 'ol USA society.

    I was reading back in this thread to try to figure out when it all went sour, and I came across this. I truly believe that you have some wild misconception of some perceived difference in cops of today vs decades ago. All cops were decent back then? Seriously. I could probably pull any random black or hispanic person off the street who is 60 years old or more and virtually guarantee they'll have a much different perspective than the Barney Fife you presented here. This honestly is so pie in the sky, reading it again gave me a laugh.

    If anything, cops now are less corrupt, less racist, less agressive than the cop of yesteryear. This notion that all cops were heroes back in the day is nothing more than a fantasy created by hollywood. It just is not based in any reality.
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • backseatLover12
    backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    edited March 2015
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    backseatLover12 said:

    The police of yesteryear were cool, decent people who were in it for the right reasons (meaning, not for the power trip). We never heard of police brutality, and in dealing with cops busting up our parties, or being pulled over for speeding, or anything else for that matter, it was never a problem. They treated us with respect as fellow human beings, we got along, and ultimately we tried to stay away from them. We didn't question them because, due to our mutual respect, they sometimes gave us a break for speeding once in a while, or getting into some other kind of trouble, having beer parties, etc.

    The reason cops have a bad name now is because they overall stopped being those same decent people who gave us a break once in a while. Suddenly, some cops have a bone to pick with everyone, they have huge egos and they like carrying around a gun legally, and they like to show everyone who's boss. They stopped showing us respect, especially the white cops with minorities. They became more belligerent. They stopped letting us go with having a headlight out. Suddenly, now the police are using their gun to kill rather than to disarm and capture.

    Does anyone see the trend here. One day we have Ponch and Jon of Chips patrolling our highway - the nice guys keeping our area safe, the next - we have a cop, first one, then another, and another... killing because "he can". He has "the authority to". So it seems to me that the supporters are supporters of a police state. Because that's pretty much what we've become.

    Good 'ol USA society.

    I was reading back in this thread to try to figure out when it all went sour, and I came across this. I truly believe that you have some wild misconception of some perceived difference in cops of today vs decades ago. All cops were decent back then? Seriously. I could probably pull any random black or hispanic person off the street who is 60 years old or more and virtually guarantee they'll have a much different perspective than the Barney Fife you presented here. This honestly is so pie in the sky, reading it again gave me a laugh.

    If anything, cops now are less corrupt, less racist, less agressive than the cop of yesteryear. This notion that all cops were heroes back in the day is nothing more than a fantasy created by hollywood. It just is not based in any reality.
    Wow, just wow. clearly in denial. That bolded statement just blows my mind how ignorant you really are to the situation. Before I let you continue to live under that rock, I'll just mention that not ONCE in this thread did ANY of you pro-police people post a backup article to justify your position. Therefore it's just your personal denial crap. Whereas I have posted plenty to back up my position, lots of stats, lots of info. And here's some more. Just for the record, I only post viable sources, as I know there are lots of incredible sources on the web.

    http://www.mintpressnews.com/racism-unchecked-police-violence-american-epidemic/197618/
    Racism And Unchecked Police Violence: An American Epidemic

    http://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/criminal-justice/police-reasonable-force-brutality-race-research-review-statistics#
    Excessive or reasonable force by police? Research on law enforcement and racial conflict in the wake of Ferguson

    http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/8-horrible-truths-about-police-brutality-and-racism-america-laid-bare-ferguson
    8 Horrible Truths About Police Brutality and Racism in America Laid Bare by Ferguson
    Post edited by backseatLover12 on
  • backseatLover12
    backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    and 30, if I were to think of how it is for an individual officer, just trying to get by in life? It's a no brainer, I'd quit my job and find one that didn't require shooting to kill, when faced with an emergency. I actually have a conscience. Good night.
  • backseatLover12
    backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/22/ferguson-black-america_n_5694364.html

    21 Numbers That Will Help You Understand Why Ferguson Is About More Than Michael Brown
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    backseatLover12 said:

    and 30, if I were to think of how it is for an individual officer, just trying to get by in life? It's a no brainer, I'd quit my job and find one that didn't require shooting to kill, when faced with an emergency. I actually have a conscience. Good night.

    By Karumba.

    Good night to you to ma'am. And sleep tight knowing people without a conscience are working to keep the streets nice and safe for you.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    I forgot you had to have opinion articles backing up our opinions.
  • Bentleyspop
    Bentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 11,420
    Anyone have info on the police in the Slovak Republic?
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    edited March 2015
    Fail.

    Post edited by brianlux on
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    brianlux said:

    OK, just to clarify. The "shut this fucker" down thing was a double entendre: shut down my computer/ shut down this thread. What did gimme say about beating these dead horse threads? But what the hey, carry on.

    hedonist said:

    Why should this be shut down? And why now? I've been singled out here and there in a weird way but would never consider it bullying nor worthy of stifling the conversation.

    I realize that. We've all been targets. It's become a shooting match. I don't really care if this thread goes on... but I kinda doubt it will if it stays too personal.

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    brianlux said:

    Wow this thread... when the bullying posturing starts up it's time to shut this fucker down.

    Good grief and GOOD NIGHT!

    Brian... you've written as many inflammatory things as anyone in this thread.
    I will duly and sincerely apologize for anything thing I have said specifically to any individual here that can be characterized as a personal attack. Please, show me where.

    Other than than, I'll move on.

    Come on, man.

    Comments made to a specific person... perhaps not. Comments directed towards a specific mindset... definitely. The people with that mindset understood what you succinctly implied.

    You took a few shots. They weren't lost on anyone. It doesn't matter. This topic has been exhausted from my perspective. I think we all know where we all stand and fair enough... we don't have to agree. You are exceptional (even though you slip in fast food restaurants with your hippy sandals).

    I would say, for the record, that whenever I find myself in opposition to Hugh... I really examine what it is I'm saying and if I should be saying it. He's had me reverse course at least once and in my estimation, he's probably the most balanced individual on this forum. I don't always agree with him or think he's correct, but I respect where he's at and how he's come to where he's at more often than not. So... something to think about at the least.

    Hugh... don't puff your plume out too proudly. You have your moments too.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    backseatLover12 said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    brianlux said:

    Serious issues sometimes call for serious emotions. I don't see what's wrong with that.


    But sweeping ridiculous false statements like bsl keeps spewing get annoying after a while. "Apathy for life", "regarding cops as saints". To be blunt, it's fucking stupid and childish to make statements like this to try to just get a reaction from others, especially when the evidence points to the direct opposite. We can discuss without half the thread being many of us refuting these ridiculous claims.
    So what exactly do you call justification for ending one's life when one is on the ground and there are 4 cops on you? Justify the killing a 12 year old with a toy gun. That is APATHY for life. Many here have said that criminal scumbags deserve death, tell me how that isn't apathy of life. Tell me, on what terms should a victim of police be allowed to live? Where does this fine line fall? And why don't the police actively exercise letting someone live? Oh, that's right, because it is law that if an officer said that they aimed to injure, that they'd be subject to a civil suit. Shooting to kill saves them from all of that, so they train to shoot for the chest… but don't be a fool, they call it "shoot to harm".

    Some of you talk like you view the police can do no wrong and does the term "pledge allegiance" sound familiar? (yeah, saintly) It's only been mentioned by me and Gambs several times in this thread regarding the common thread with many of the 'unquestioning the police' people. But bedamned us people who dare question our authority… Again, why we're leaning towards a police state.

    Reaction from others, you really think I am REPEATING MYSELF CONSTANTLY because I want reaction? How many times does the same point have to be made before one actually hears it? And the "evidence points to the direct opposite". Laughable. Show me the evidence.

    This is reality. Police brutality combined with racism = major US problem. Justifying death in for a 12 year old's death? Apathy.
    And who is saying the police are above the law or beyond reproach? Nobody. This is an assumption and another silly accusation of yours.

    Keep shouting.

    Regardless of whether anyone here says so or not, there is a widespread corruption among the system that holds police accountable professionally and criminally. We can all agree on cases where brutality is an issue, but even in those egregious cases the perps walk, hell skate, out of trouble.
    If criticism of police brutality is met as ferociously as it is here, imagine how it is in truly pro-cop and truly conservative environments. This amounts to enabling the culture of police not being held accountable in my opinion.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • backseatLover12
    backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    edited March 2015
    Last-12-Exit said:

    I forgot you had to have opinion articles backing up our opinions.

    Absolutely you do, but not opinion articles, hard facts and statistics. This is about a huge issue, or what many on your side says, the lack of an issue. So prove it then! I've done my work, you do yours. Otherwise your opinion doesn't have a leg to stand on.
  • muskydan
    muskydan Posts: 1,013
    backseatLover12 said:

    and 30, if I were to think of how it is for an individual officer, just trying to get by in life? It's a no brainer, I'd quit my job and find one that didn't require shooting to kill, when faced with an emergency. I actually have a conscience. Good night.

    You sure are special.
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    brianlux said:

    OK, just to clarify. The "shut this fucker" down thing was a double entendre: shut down my computer/ shut down this thread. What did gimme say about beating these dead horse threads? But what the hey, carry on.

    hedonist said:

    Why should this be shut down? And why now? I've been singled out here and there in a weird way but would never consider it bullying nor worthy of stifling the conversation.

    I realize that. We've all been targets. It's become a shooting match. I don't really care if this thread goes on... but I kinda doubt it will if it stays too personal.

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    brianlux said:

    Wow this thread... when the bullying posturing starts up it's time to shut this fucker down.

    Good grief and GOOD NIGHT!

    Brian... you've written as many inflammatory things as anyone in this thread.
    I will duly and sincerely apologize for anything thing I have said specifically to any individual here that can be characterized as a personal attack. Please, show me where.

    Other than than, I'll move on.

    Come on, man.

    Comments made to a specific person... perhaps not. Comments directed towards a specific mindset... definitely. The people with that mindset understood what you succinctly implied.

    You took a few shots. They weren't lost on anyone. It doesn't matter. This topic has been exhausted from my perspective. I think we all know where we all stand and fair enough... we don't have to agree. You are exceptional (even though you slip in fast food restaurants with your hippy sandals).

    I would say, for the record, that whenever I find myself in opposition to Hugh... I really examine what it is I'm saying and if I should be saying it. He's had me reverse course at least once and in my estimation, he's probably the most balanced individual on this forum. I don't always agree with him or think he's correct, but I respect where he's at and how he's come to where he's at more often than not. So... something to think about at the least.

    Hugh... don't puff your plume out too proudly. You have your moments too.
    yes, I absolutely have had my moments. I will readily admit that.

    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Last-12-Exit said:

    I forgot you had to have opinion articles backing up our opinions.

    +1

    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    backseatLover12 said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    backseatLover12 said:

    The police of yesteryear were cool, decent people who were in it for the right reasons (meaning, not for the power trip). We never heard of police brutality, and in dealing with cops busting up our parties, or being pulled over for speeding, or anything else for that matter, it was never a problem. They treated us with respect as fellow human beings, we got along, and ultimately we tried to stay away from them. We didn't question them because, due to our mutual respect, they sometimes gave us a break for speeding once in a while, or getting into some other kind of trouble, having beer parties, etc.

    The reason cops have a bad name now is because they overall stopped being those same decent people who gave us a break once in a while. Suddenly, some cops have a bone to pick with everyone, they have huge egos and they like carrying around a gun legally, and they like to show everyone who's boss. They stopped showing us respect, especially the white cops with minorities. They became more belligerent. They stopped letting us go with having a headlight out. Suddenly, now the police are using their gun to kill rather than to disarm and capture.

    Does anyone see the trend here. One day we have Ponch and Jon of Chips patrolling our highway - the nice guys keeping our area safe, the next - we have a cop, first one, then another, and another... killing because "he can". He has "the authority to". So it seems to me that the supporters are supporters of a police state. Because that's pretty much what we've become.

    Good 'ol USA society.

    I was reading back in this thread to try to figure out when it all went sour, and I came across this. I truly believe that you have some wild misconception of some perceived difference in cops of today vs decades ago. All cops were decent back then? Seriously. I could probably pull any random black or hispanic person off the street who is 60 years old or more and virtually guarantee they'll have a much different perspective than the Barney Fife you presented here. This honestly is so pie in the sky, reading it again gave me a laugh.

    If anything, cops now are less corrupt, less racist, less agressive than the cop of yesteryear. This notion that all cops were heroes back in the day is nothing more than a fantasy created by hollywood. It just is not based in any reality.
    Wow, just wow. clearly in denial. That bolded statement just blows my mind how ignorant you really are to the situation. Before I let you continue to live under that rock, I'll just mention that not ONCE in this thread did ANY of you pro-police people post a backup article to justify your position. Therefore it's just your personal denial crap. Whereas I have posted plenty to back up my position, lots of stats, lots of info. And here's some more. Just for the record, I only post viable sources, as I know there are lots of incredible sources on the web.

    http://www.mintpressnews.com/racism-unchecked-police-violence-american-epidemic/197618/
    Racism And Unchecked Police Violence: An American Epidemic

    http://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/criminal-justice/police-reasonable-force-brutality-race-research-review-statistics#
    Excessive or reasonable force by police? Research on law enforcement and racial conflict in the wake of Ferguson

    http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/8-horrible-truths-about-police-brutality-and-racism-america-laid-bare-ferguson
    8 Horrible Truths About Police Brutality and Racism in America Laid Bare by Ferguson
    I don't know how many credible studies have been done to disprove racism and police brutality. generally you don't do studies to disprove something. that's not how it works. of course it's opinion, just like your position.

    is there truth to what you say? of course there is. but to say it's the ultimate truth and that the rest of us are just in denial is just plain bollocks.

    here is something I've wondered for a long time, and tell me if it's a dumb question for reasons I'm not thinking of, but why don't police use rubber bullets? aren't they effective and non-lethal so as to incapacitate the "bad guy" long enough to subdue him and keep him alive?



    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    I know I said I'm out, but I wanted to post this one last thing. Too bad these threads get so personal and toxic.

    This is a two part series done by This American Life and is fantastic. It is so perfect for this conversation, but sadly I'm sure will largely be ignored. It shows both sides.


    http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/547/cops-see-it-differently-part-one

    http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/548/cops-see-it-differently-part-two
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    dignin said:

    I know I said I'm out, but I wanted to post this one last thing. Too bad these threads get so personal and toxic.

    This is a two part series done by This American Life and is fantastic. It is so perfect for this conversation, but sadly I'm sure will largely be ignored. It shows both sides.


    http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/547/cops-see-it-differently-part-one

    http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/548/cops-see-it-differently-part-two

    I'll be checking this out when I'm at home. Thanks for posting.

    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




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