Michael Moore proving once again...
Comments
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I just re-read a bit fuller MM's back-up, and this made me think:
but now it's sad seeing him talking to an empty chair on a stage or making an Iraq movie that Rolling Stone this week called, "too dumb to bother criticizing."
The chair thing, silly as it was, was from awhile ago, and not sure when RS became the cornerstone of intelligence. I also tried to find something about the claims about Fahrenheit 9/11.
(and for the record, "far" anything is fucked up, whether one looks right or possibly sees the far left as well)
Is Moore considered heroic for his tweets and facebook posts? Are his actions considered more noble than those of the vets he supports, and for which I give him credit? And again, are snipers and vets equally supported?
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paulonious wrote: »Vindication doesn't equate to monetary award, at least from here. He could've sued for a buck.
Sorry, I just see this as money-grubbing under the guise of so-called vindication.
Wrestler vs. sniper, sounds like a dick-measuring contest to me.
He was a navy seal. And a respected governor. I would argue this was far more about reputation than a dick measuring contest. Of course he could have sued for a dollar. He could also have sued for 25 million. To me that doesn't mean he wasn't justified in his suit.
Agreed....Kyle made a lot of money selling that BS. Ventura gets cudos in my book for calling him out as a liar.
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We're on the same wavelength Brian. No one is 100% spot on, but I commend anyone speaking out and risking the backlash surely to come about as a result. And it only helps Moore's credibility that he works with veterans.backseatLover12 wrote: »It's amazing to me that certain factions still make claims or even insinuate that those who are anti-war, who criticize wars or particular acts of war or war related incidents are against the troops. Being anti-war does not make a person anti-troops.
The way Fox News and basically status quo mainstream America does it is that "you're either for us or against us". That came from Bush. If you're not 100% on "our side" then you're 100% "against" our side. That all started with him and now the culture of living here has that stigma. Don't speak out unless you're prepared to get ripped apart… like Moore.
Right! And the thing is, the status quo and especially the far right are desperate to keep a failing system in place and desperate to somehow prop up a belief that something like the war in Iraq was useful, good and valid. We don't have much in the way of strong leaders who are brave enough to stand up to that kind of nonsense and when someone outside the political realm like Moore does stand up to it he gets slammed by that same status quo. I'm not saying Moore is perfect- no one is 100% spot on- but at least he is willing to work against the tide by doing work that always favors people over greed, war, corruption, etc. It's what he does and I'm glad for it.0 -
I just re-read a bit fuller MM's back-up, and this made me think:
but now it's sad seeing him talking to an empty chair on a stage or making an Iraq movie that Rolling Stone this week called, "too dumb to bother criticizing."
The chair thing, silly as it was, was from awhile ago, and not sure when RS became the cornerstone of intelligence. I also tried to find something about the claims about Fahrenheit 9/11.
(and for the record, "far" anything is fucked up, whether one looks right or possibly sees the far left as well)
Is Moore considered heroic for his tweets and facebook posts? Are his actions considered more noble than those of the vets he supports, and for which I give him credit? And again, are snipers and vets equally supported?
Isn't Moore considered mostly irrelevant at this point?www.myspace.com0 -
I had never heard about this guy until last week......but he sounds like an asshole.
http://www.salon.com/2015/01/23/7_enormous_lies_american_sniper_is_telling_america_partner/
The film American Sniper, based on the story of the late Navy Seal Chris Kyle, is a box office hit, setting records for an R-rated film released in January. Yet the film, the autobiography of the same name, and the reputation of Chris Kyle are all built on a set of half-truths, myths and outright lies that Hollywood didn’t see fit to clear up.
Here are seven lies about Chris Kyle and the story that director Clint Eastwood is telling:
1. The Film Suggests the Iraq War Was In Response To 9/11: One way to get audiences to unambiguously support Kyle’s actions in the film is to believe he’s there to avenge the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The movie cuts from Kyle watching footage of the attacks to him serving in Iraq, implying there is some link between the two.
2. The Film Invents a Terrorist Sniper Who Works For Multiple Opposing Factions: Kyle’s primary antagonist in the film is a sniper named Mustafa. Mustafa is mentioned in a single paragraph in Kyle’s book, but the movie blows him up into an ever-present figure and Syrian Olympic medal winner who fights for both Sunni insurgents in Fallujah and the Shia Madhi army.
3. The Film Portrays Chris Kyle as Tormented By His Actions: Multiple scenes in the movie portray Kyle as haunted by his service. One of the film’s earliest reviews praised it for showing the “emotional torment of so many military men and women.” But that torment is completely absent from the book the film is based on. In the book, Kyle refers to everyone he fought as “savage, despicable” evil. He writes, “I only wish I had killed more.” He also writes, “I loved what I did. I still do. If circumstances were different – if my family didn’t need me – I’d be back in a heartbeat. I’m not lying or exaggerating to say it was fun. I had the time of my life being a SEAL.” On an appearance on Conan O’Brien’s show he laughs about accidentally shooting an Iraqi insurgent. He once told a military investigator that he doesn’t “shoot people with Korans. I’d like to, but I don’t.”
4. The Real Chris Kyle Made Up A Story About Killing Dozens of People In Post-Katrina New Orleans: Kyle claimed that he killed 30 people in the chaos of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, a story Louisiana writer Jarvis DeBerry calls “preposterous.” It shows the sort of mentality post-war Kyle had, but the claim doesn’t appear in the film.
5. The Real Chris Kyle Fabricated A Story About Killing Two Men Who Tried To Carjack Him In Texas: Kyle told numerous people a story about killing two alleged carjackers in Texas. Reporters tried repeatedly to verify this claim, but no evidence of it exists.
6. Chris Kyle Was Successfully Sued For Lying About the Former Governor of Minnesota: Kyle alleged that former Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura defamed Navy SEALs and got into a fight with him at a local bar. Ventura successfully sued Kyle for the passage in his book, and a jury awarded him $1.845 million.
7. Chris Kyle’s Family Claimed He Donated His Book Proceeds To Veterans’ Charity, But He Kept Most Of The Profits: The National Review debunks the claim that all proceeds of his book went to veterans’ charities. Around 2 percent – $52,000 – went to the charities while the Kyles pocketed $3 million.
Although the movie is an initial box office hit, there is a growing backlash against its simplistic portrayal of the war and misleading take on Kyle’s character. This backlash has reportedly spread among members of the Academy of Motion Picture of Arts and Sciences, which could threaten the film’s shot at racking up Oscars.0 -
The Juggler wrote: »I just re-read a bit fuller MM's back-up, and this made me think:
but now it's sad seeing him talking to an empty chair on a stage or making an Iraq movie that Rolling Stone this week called, "too dumb to bother criticizing."
The chair thing, silly as it was, was from awhile ago, and not sure when RS became the cornerstone of intelligence. I also tried to find something about the claims about Fahrenheit 9/11.
(and for the record, "far" anything is fucked up, whether one looks right or possibly sees the far left as well)
Is Moore considered heroic for his tweets and facebook posts? Are his actions considered more noble than those of the vets he supports, and for which I give him credit? And again, are snipers and vets equally supported?
Isn't Moore considered mostly irrelevant at this point?
Or considered an asshole.
Oh wait - that's Kyle.
And yes, Juggler...while irrelevance itself may be subjective, I'm cool with not giving any more credence to Moore.
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Relevance has nothing to do with it.Post edited by backseatLover12 on0
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The Juggler wrote: »I just re-read a bit fuller MM's back-up, and this made me think:
but now it's sad seeing him talking to an empty chair on a stage or making an Iraq movie that Rolling Stone this week called, "too dumb to bother criticizing."
The chair thing, silly as it was, was from awhile ago, and not sure when RS became the cornerstone of intelligence. I also tried to find something about the claims about Fahrenheit 9/11.
(and for the record, "far" anything is fucked up, whether one looks right or possibly sees the far left as well)
Is Moore considered heroic for his tweets and facebook posts? Are his actions considered more noble than those of the vets he supports, and for which I give him credit? And again, are snipers and vets equally supported?
Isn't Moore considered mostly irrelevant at this point?
Or considered an asshole.
Oh wait - that's Kyle.
And yes, Juggler...while irrelevance itself may be subjective, I'm cool with not giving any more credence to Moore.
It sounds like people were expecting a documentary on the guy. The movie is really, really good.www.myspace.com0 -
Looking forward to seeing it (c'mon already, on demand!).The Juggler wrote: »The Juggler wrote: »I just re-read a bit fuller MM's back-up, and this made me think:
but now it's sad seeing him talking to an empty chair on a stage or making an Iraq movie that Rolling Stone this week called, "too dumb to bother criticizing."
The chair thing, silly as it was, was from awhile ago, and not sure when RS became the cornerstone of intelligence. I also tried to find something about the claims about Fahrenheit 9/11.
(and for the record, "far" anything is fucked up, whether one looks right or possibly sees the far left as well)
Is Moore considered heroic for his tweets and facebook posts? Are his actions considered more noble than those of the vets he supports, and for which I give him credit? And again, are snipers and vets equally supported?
Isn't Moore considered mostly irrelevant at this point?
Or considered an asshole.
Oh wait - that's Kyle.
And yes, Juggler...while irrelevance itself may be subjective, I'm cool with not giving any more credence to Moore.
It sounds like people were expecting a documentary on the guy. The movie is really, really good.
bsL, that's the point of relevance - I have no problem tossing his opinion aside. Same token, I get and even accept that others don't have that same inclination.
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I had never heard about this guy until last week......but he sounds like an asshole.
http://www.salon.com/2015/01/23/7_enormous_lies_american_sniper_is_telling_america_partner/
The film American Sniper, based on the story of the late Navy Seal Chris Kyle, is a box office hit, setting records for an R-rated film released in January. Yet the film, the autobiography of the same name, and the reputation of Chris Kyle are all built on a set of half-truths, myths and outright lies that Hollywood didn’t see fit to clear up.
Here are seven lies about Chris Kyle and the story that director Clint Eastwood is telling:
1. The Film Suggests the Iraq War Was In Response To 9/11: One way to get audiences to unambiguously support Kyle’s actions in the film is to believe he’s there to avenge the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The movie cuts from Kyle watching footage of the attacks to him serving in Iraq, implying there is some link between the two.
2. The Film Invents a Terrorist Sniper Who Works For Multiple Opposing Factions: Kyle’s primary antagonist in the film is a sniper named Mustafa. Mustafa is mentioned in a single paragraph in Kyle’s book, but the movie blows him up into an ever-present figure and Syrian Olympic medal winner who fights for both Sunni insurgents in Fallujah and the Shia Madhi army.
3. The Film Portrays Chris Kyle as Tormented By His Actions: Multiple scenes in the movie portray Kyle as haunted by his service. One of the film’s earliest reviews praised it for showing the “emotional torment of so many military men and women.” But that torment is completely absent from the book the film is based on. In the book, Kyle refers to everyone he fought as “savage, despicable” evil. He writes, “I only wish I had killed more.” He also writes, “I loved what I did. I still do. If circumstances were different – if my family didn’t need me – I’d be back in a heartbeat. I’m not lying or exaggerating to say it was fun. I had the time of my life being a SEAL.” On an appearance on Conan O’Brien’s show he laughs about accidentally shooting an Iraqi insurgent. He once told a military investigator that he doesn’t “shoot people with Korans. I’d like to, but I don’t.”
4. The Real Chris Kyle Made Up A Story About Killing Dozens of People In Post-Katrina New Orleans: Kyle claimed that he killed 30 people in the chaos of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, a story Louisiana writer Jarvis DeBerry calls “preposterous.” It shows the sort of mentality post-war Kyle had, but the claim doesn’t appear in the film.
5. The Real Chris Kyle Fabricated A Story About Killing Two Men Who Tried To Carjack Him In Texas: Kyle told numerous people a story about killing two alleged carjackers in Texas. Reporters tried repeatedly to verify this claim, but no evidence of it exists.
6. Chris Kyle Was Successfully Sued For Lying About the Former Governor of Minnesota: Kyle alleged that former Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura defamed Navy SEALs and got into a fight with him at a local bar. Ventura successfully sued Kyle for the passage in his book, and a jury awarded him $1.845 million.
7. Chris Kyle’s Family Claimed He Donated His Book Proceeds To Veterans’ Charity, But He Kept Most Of The Profits: The National Review debunks the claim that all proceeds of his book went to veterans’ charities. Around 2 percent – $52,000 – went to the charities while the Kyles pocketed $3 million.
Although the movie is an initial box office hit, there is a growing backlash against its simplistic portrayal of the war and misleading take on Kyle’s character. This backlash has reportedly spread among members of the Academy of Motion Picture of Arts and Sciences, which could threaten the film’s shot at racking up Oscars.
It's what I've been saying through this whole thread: it's based on a true story with Hollywood's twist. It's just a movie. No movie that is based on true stories are EVER 100% accurate. But it's a good movie. Well worth Oscar considerations.0 -
Schindler's List is on at the moment - apparently Auschwitz was liberated this month, 70 years ago. No wonder so much was shown today in images and spoken memories.
So while this is on and I'm resisting the urge to grab my husband and make out with him (Seinfeld ref, before anyone bites my ass), it occurred to me that this film, its actors and director were lauded as if they themselves were liberators.
Just...strange. The vitriol and judgment and creaming selectively placed.
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Imagine if it had been made from Goethe's perspective only. Good film or not, people would have some issues with it.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0
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Yup. Maybe it's about the lens and how many can see through a similar eye?
I don't know.0 -
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Based on this and the "last movie watched" thread I really want to go see this movie, only now I'll be watching it as less of a docudrama and more along the lines of Saving Private Ryan (which was only very slightly based on a true story)."The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 20220 -
Last-12-Exit wrote: »I had never heard about this guy until last week......but he sounds like an asshole.
http://www.salon.com/2015/01/23/7_enormous_lies_american_sniper_is_telling_america_partner/
The film American Sniper, based on the story of the late Navy Seal Chris Kyle, is a box office hit, setting records for an R-rated film released in January. Yet the film, the autobiography of the same name, and the reputation of Chris Kyle are all built on a set of half-truths, myths and outright lies that Hollywood didn’t see fit to clear up.
Here are seven lies about Chris Kyle and the story that director Clint Eastwood is telling:
1. The Film Suggests the Iraq War Was In Response To 9/11: One way to get audiences to unambiguously support Kyle’s actions in the film is to believe he’s there to avenge the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The movie cuts from Kyle watching footage of the attacks to him serving in Iraq, implying there is some link between the two.
2. The Film Invents a Terrorist Sniper Who Works For Multiple Opposing Factions: Kyle’s primary antagonist in the film is a sniper named Mustafa. Mustafa is mentioned in a single paragraph in Kyle’s book, but the movie blows him up into an ever-present figure and Syrian Olympic medal winner who fights for both Sunni insurgents in Fallujah and the Shia Madhi army.
3. The Film Portrays Chris Kyle as Tormented By His Actions: Multiple scenes in the movie portray Kyle as haunted by his service. One of the film’s earliest reviews praised it for showing the “emotional torment of so many military men and women.” But that torment is completely absent from the book the film is based on. In the book, Kyle refers to everyone he fought as “savage, despicable” evil. He writes, “I only wish I had killed more.” He also writes, “I loved what I did. I still do. If circumstances were different – if my family didn’t need me – I’d be back in a heartbeat. I’m not lying or exaggerating to say it was fun. I had the time of my life being a SEAL.” On an appearance on Conan O’Brien’s show he laughs about accidentally shooting an Iraqi insurgent. He once told a military investigator that he doesn’t “shoot people with Korans. I’d like to, but I don’t.”
4. The Real Chris Kyle Made Up A Story About Killing Dozens of People In Post-Katrina New Orleans: Kyle claimed that he killed 30 people in the chaos of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, a story Louisiana writer Jarvis DeBerry calls “preposterous.” It shows the sort of mentality post-war Kyle had, but the claim doesn’t appear in the film.
5. The Real Chris Kyle Fabricated A Story About Killing Two Men Who Tried To Carjack Him In Texas: Kyle told numerous people a story about killing two alleged carjackers in Texas. Reporters tried repeatedly to verify this claim, but no evidence of it exists.
6. Chris Kyle Was Successfully Sued For Lying About the Former Governor of Minnesota: Kyle alleged that former Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura defamed Navy SEALs and got into a fight with him at a local bar. Ventura successfully sued Kyle for the passage in his book, and a jury awarded him $1.845 million.
7. Chris Kyle’s Family Claimed He Donated His Book Proceeds To Veterans’ Charity, But He Kept Most Of The Profits: The National Review debunks the claim that all proceeds of his book went to veterans’ charities. Around 2 percent – $52,000 – went to the charities while the Kyles pocketed $3 million.
Although the movie is an initial box office hit, there is a growing backlash against its simplistic portrayal of the war and misleading take on Kyle’s character. This backlash has reportedly spread among members of the Academy of Motion Picture of Arts and Sciences, which could threaten the film’s shot at racking up Oscars.
It's what I've been saying through this whole thread: it's based on a true story with Hollywood's twist. It's just a movie. No movie that is based on true stories are EVER 100% accurate. But it's a good movie. Well worth Oscar considerations.
This, in my late night addled brain way, was what I was at least partly what I was trying to get at in the life as art/ art as life thing. (Not sure it deserves to be called a "thread".) We see a movie and think that is reality.
As for "relevance"- this is so 2000's to me. Someone isn't make the front page any more so they are no longer relevant. If that is the case, I nominate the follow as people who are no longer relevant:
Albert Einstein
Mother Teressa
Pablo Picasso
George Orwell
Mahatma Gandhi
Charles Darwin
Elvis Presley
Leonardo da Vinci
Thomas Edison
Malcolm X
Henry Ford
and the number one most irrelevant person in the world:
Sigmund Freud
Anyone wanna buy a bridge? ;-)
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
I have never really understood the term relevant either, unless it is used in a scientific context. I hate to think that pop culture defines to us what is or is no longer relevant.By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0
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paulonious wrote: »I have never really understood the term relevant either, unless it is used in a scientific context. I hate to think that pop culture defines to us what is or is no longer relevant.
Well, I shouldn't have been so sarcastic but it really is a term that gets tossed around too often IMHO. It's part of our tenancy to throw off the past (thus not learning from history) and only going with what rolls our socks at the moment.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Last-12-Exit wrote: »I had never heard about this guy until last week......but he sounds like an asshole.
http://www.salon.com/2015/01/23/7_enormous_lies_american_sniper_is_telling_america_partner/
The film American Sniper, based on the story of the late Navy Seal Chris Kyle, is a box office hit, setting records for an R-rated film released in January. Yet the film, the autobiography of the same name, and the reputation of Chris Kyle are all built on a set of half-truths, myths and outright lies that Hollywood didn’t see fit to clear up.
Here are seven lies about Chris Kyle and the story that director Clint Eastwood is telling:
1. The Film Suggests the Iraq War Was In Response To 9/11: One way to get audiences to unambiguously support Kyle’s actions in the film is to believe he’s there to avenge the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The movie cuts from Kyle watching footage of the attacks to him serving in Iraq, implying there is some link between the two.
2. The Film Invents a Terrorist Sniper Who Works For Multiple Opposing Factions: Kyle’s primary antagonist in the film is a sniper named Mustafa. Mustafa is mentioned in a single paragraph in Kyle’s book, but the movie blows him up into an ever-present figure and Syrian Olympic medal winner who fights for both Sunni insurgents in Fallujah and the Shia Madhi army.
3. The Film Portrays Chris Kyle as Tormented By His Actions: Multiple scenes in the movie portray Kyle as haunted by his service. One of the film’s earliest reviews praised it for showing the “emotional torment of so many military men and women.” But that torment is completely absent from the book the film is based on. In the book, Kyle refers to everyone he fought as “savage, despicable” evil. He writes, “I only wish I had killed more.” He also writes, “I loved what I did. I still do. If circumstances were different – if my family didn’t need me – I’d be back in a heartbeat. I’m not lying or exaggerating to say it was fun. I had the time of my life being a SEAL.” On an appearance on Conan O’Brien’s show he laughs about accidentally shooting an Iraqi insurgent. He once told a military investigator that he doesn’t “shoot people with Korans. I’d like to, but I don’t.”
4. The Real Chris Kyle Made Up A Story About Killing Dozens of People In Post-Katrina New Orleans: Kyle claimed that he killed 30 people in the chaos of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, a story Louisiana writer Jarvis DeBerry calls “preposterous.” It shows the sort of mentality post-war Kyle had, but the claim doesn’t appear in the film.
5. The Real Chris Kyle Fabricated A Story About Killing Two Men Who Tried To Carjack Him In Texas: Kyle told numerous people a story about killing two alleged carjackers in Texas. Reporters tried repeatedly to verify this claim, but no evidence of it exists.
6. Chris Kyle Was Successfully Sued For Lying About the Former Governor of Minnesota: Kyle alleged that former Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura defamed Navy SEALs and got into a fight with him at a local bar. Ventura successfully sued Kyle for the passage in his book, and a jury awarded him $1.845 million.
7. Chris Kyle’s Family Claimed He Donated His Book Proceeds To Veterans’ Charity, But He Kept Most Of The Profits: The National Review debunks the claim that all proceeds of his book went to veterans’ charities. Around 2 percent – $52,000 – went to the charities while the Kyles pocketed $3 million.
Although the movie is an initial box office hit, there is a growing backlash against its simplistic portrayal of the war and misleading take on Kyle’s character. This backlash has reportedly spread among members of the Academy of Motion Picture of Arts and Sciences, which could threaten the film’s shot at racking up Oscars.
It's what I've been saying through this whole thread: it's based on a true story with Hollywood's twist. It's just a movie. No movie that is based on true stories are EVER 100% accurate. But it's a good movie. Well worth Oscar considerations.
This, in my late night addled brain way, was what I was at least partly what I was trying to get at in the life as art/ art as life thing. (Not sure it deserves to be called a "thread".) We see a movie and think that is reality.
As for "relevance"- this is so 2000's to me. Someone isn't make the front page any more so they are no longer relevant. If that is the case, I nominate the follow as people who are no longer relevant:
Albert Einstein
Mother Teressa
Pablo Picasso
George Orwell
Mahatma Gandhi
Charles Darwin
Elvis Presley
Leonardo da Vinci
Thomas Edison
Malcolm X
Henry Ford
and the number one most irrelevant person in the world:
Sigmund Freud
Anyone wanna buy a bridge? ;-)
Brian, you are on the front page of AMT all the time.
What is your pick?0
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