Charlie Hebdo Paris shooting: 12 dead after gunmen storm newspaper's HQ
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Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote: »Fuck...
Another excellent post.
I'd respectfully disagree with you on two points:
1. We are getting smarter. It's nonsense to suggest we are not when the body of knowledge we have acquired grows every day. Our grandchildren will be smarter than us. Of course, periodically, our actions belie this fact.
2. I'm in opposition to your position on religion. I do believe in the freedom to practice one's religion. I'd also agree that intelligent quotients (you didn't quite frame it this way) are comparable between believing and non-believing factions; however, I hold the opinion that many devout religious followers are somewhat shackled through powerful imprinting. While this doesn't take anything away from their ability to work through a problem, I think it does restrict their ability to challenge the belief system they were taught.
* You also spoke to non-believers who spoke in condescending fashion to believers and while this is certainly the case... let me tell you that non-believers are subjected to strong points of view that tend to evoke an emotional response as well.
To respond to your last statement Thirty Bills Unpaid, I don't believe that atheists are non- believers, they don't believe in a God, But that's also a believe, because we can't prove there is no God... This also dictates a certain perception of the world.Post edited by Aafke on
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee0 -
Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote: »Fuck...
Another excellent post.
I'd respectfully disagree with you on two points:
1. We are getting smarter. It's nonsense to suggest we are not when the body of knowledge we have acquired grows every day. Our grandchildren will be smarter than us. Of course, periodically, our actions belie this fact.
2. I'm in opposition to your position on religion. I do believe in the freedom to practice one's religion. I'd also agree that intelligent quotients (you didn't quite frame it this way) are comparable between believing and non-believing factions; however, I hold the opinion that many devout religious followers are somewhat shackled through powerful imprinting. While this doesn't take anything away from their ability to work through a problem, I think it does restrict their ability to challenge the belief system they were taught.
* You also spoke to non-believers who spoke in condescending fashion to believers and while this is certainly the case... let me tell you that non-believers are subjected to strong points of view that tend to evoke an emotional response as well.
To respond to your last statement Thirty Bills Unpaid, I don't believe that atheists are non- believers, they don't believe in a God, But that's also a believe, because we can't prove there is no God... This also dictates a certain perception of the world.
The evidence is pretty damning."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
Fuck, that was a good post and I agree with most of it but, damn, that may have been the most indignantly arrogant post I have seen on these boards. The tone suggested you think you hold a monopoly on truth, although I am sure you don't actually feel that way.
"Fuck:Someone else on here also said that the reason they oppose Islam is because it (like Christianity and other religions, the poster alleges) takes the worldview that all nonbelievers are damned. I'm sorry, but this is simply not true. Your relationship to Christianity aside, Islam does not state this, and if you've done any real research -- hell, if you've just read the Quran, the one 600-page book which is the foundational text of the actual religion! -- you'd know this."
I present exhibits A and B to counter this falsehood you presented (knowingly IMO)
"...Enough is Hell for a burning fire. Those who reject Our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire. As often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty. For Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise" (4:55-56)."
...Those who deny (their Lord), for them will be cut out a garment of Fire. Over their heads will be poured out boiling water. With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins. In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them. Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back, and (it will be said), "Taste the Penalty of Burning!" (22:19-22)."Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Blame can't be laid solely on one side. It is the West's fault for imperialism, and western citizens for our excessive consumerism and failure to hault government/corporate corruption which fuels the imperialism. It is also the Middle East/Middle Easterner's faults for their religious extremism and failure to hault government/church corruption.
Neither side has a valid reason to kill or die.
(Of course, lumping it all down into two sides is a major oversimplification, but y'all get what I'm gettin at)Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Fuck, that was a good post and I agree with most of it but, damn, that may have been the most indignantly arrogant post I have seen on these boards. The tone suggested you think you hold a monopoly on truth, although I am sure you don't actually feel that way.
"Fuck:Someone else on here also said that the reason they oppose Islam is because it (like Christianity and other religions, the poster alleges) takes the worldview that all nonbelievers are damned. I'm sorry, but this is simply not true. Your relationship to Christianity aside, Islam does not state this, and if you've done any real research -- hell, if you've just read the Quran, the one 600-page book which is the foundational text of the actual religion! -- you'd know this."
I present exhibits A and B to counter this falsehood you presented (knowingly IMO)
"...Enough is Hell for a burning fire. Those who reject Our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire. As often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty. For Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise" (4:55-56)."
...Those who deny (their Lord), for them will be cut out a garment of Fire. Over their heads will be poured out boiling water. With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins. In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them. Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back, and (it will be said), "Taste the Penalty of Burning!" (22:19-22)."
Wait a minute... you mean they're gonna pour a bunch of boiling water on my head while I wear a fire jacket?
Change my mind: I believe."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
fuck...I am the genius poster who mentioned Al-Sisi. He nor I are Islamophobic or bigoted although it might be fair to label him tyrannical. Al-Sisi is a muslim who recognizes the evil strain within Islam. You should do the same. Stop trying to dodge the problem's of the present with grievances from the past.0
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Satire, noun:
A way of using humor to show that someone or something is weak, foolish, or bad. Humor that shows the weaknesses or bad qualities of a person, government, or society.
Anyway, again, the over complication of the blame game here is out of control.0 -
I believe this one nails it...
Post edited by Aafke on
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee0 -
If you believe so Aafke then you are in complete disagreement with the perpetrators. I'll take their words over your's.0
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I strongly belief that almost every Religion has been used as an excuse for terrorists to act terribly. Now a day the Islam is the most heard excuse for terrorism, But let's not make the mistake to blame the Religion, just blame the people who choose to become terrorists...
By doing so, you'll give the terrorists exactly what they try to accomplice. You will play along in their defied and concur strategy. By blaming the religion, you create more fear, and more hatred for people believing this religion, and therefore alienate them from society. Isolate them even further. So when you do so, don't be surprised if even more young Muslims, will join those terrorists, when they get spit out by society for acts they had nothing do do with...Post edited by Aafke on
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee0 -
Can anyone think of a terrorist organization which doesn't connect themselves to a religion?Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0
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Can anyone think of a terrorist organization which doesn't connect themselves to a religion?
No, rgambs, I can't but I can think of three that have been variously accused of being terrorist- namely, Earth First!, Greenpeace and Sea Shepherds. But those who make those accusation do not know the difference between "sabotage" and "terrorism".
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
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Blame can't be laid solely on one side. It is the West's fault for imperialism, and western citizens for our excessive consumerism and failure to hault government/corporate corruption which fuels the imperialism. It is also the Middle East/Middle Easterner's faults for their religious extremism and failure to hault government/church corruption.
Neither side has a valid reason to kill or die.
(Of course, lumping it all down into two sides is a major oversimplification, but y'all get what I'm gettin at)
Although way simplified I agree with ya here Gambs.
Fuck, that was well written.I see where your coming from,but the thing I still can't accept is this justification of violence based on a long history of injustices.I know you are not condoning the actions.But everyone,everywhere of all colors,religions,etc can claim the same.
You don't give the Israelis a pass,because of the violence inflicted on the Jews since the beginning of time.We can't start cherry picking and making excuses.
Over simplified example,If a kid in school is bullied from kindergarten until high school and then one day goes out and shoots The bully ,it's not justified although the reasons he did it may understandable.
We must adapt to those injustices of the past in order to move forward into future.0 -
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Godfather. wrote: »
Why do you think society would have remained a hunter gather type? Societies evolve or do you think the European cultures are the same ones as most of your ancestors left them? It's evolution, baby...
Post edited by Aafke on
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee0 -
I think he's alluding to time relevancy and assimilation.
I don't think he was saying the First Nation's culture had no hope of transforming."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
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Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote: »I think he's alluding to time relevancy and assimilation.
I don't think he was saying the First Nation's culture had no hope of transforming.
thank you sir !
Godfather.
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Good article by a rabbi
http://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/mourning-the-parisian-journalists-yet-noticing-the-hypocrisy/0
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