Fraternities and Sororities-Time To Go?

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  • Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    gimmesometruth27 said:

    show previous quotes
    i was a sig pi too.

    back then i enjoyed it. when i joined i had just given up D1 college baseball due to injury. the only people i knew were the people on my team. i went through rush to meet people. and got in to one of the largest organizations on campus. there were a lot of guys from all different backgrounds and walks of life that i never would have met otherwise. some of the greatest experiences of my college years were a direct result of being in that organization. spring breaks, homecomings, charity events, being involved in student government, the occasional random, stupid and irresponsible road trip, etc. i have made lifelong friends that i still talk to all of the time. those people live all over the country. we helped each other with our classes, we helped each other land jobs, because you have a huge network when you get out of school.

    all of that said, there were a few bad things that happened. the main component was the lack of control of the underage drinking. we ended up on probation for a year because some sorority woman was at our house, walked across the street to her house, and passed out in the front yard. other houses got in trouble for hazing, one got busted by the dea for selling cocaine and steroids to undercover agents.... we had a little bit of hazing, but it was not drink hazing and it wasn't very physical. it was more mind games than anything, like being put in a no win situation where you were going to piss off one active or another. you just had to pick who could fuck you over less. one new years eve, a kid who was in a pledge class where i was a pledge trainer, was killed by a drunk driver on new years eve. that kind of ruined the whole experience for me. things got very real after that. not a new years eve goes by where i do not think of matt armin.

    in the end, every house on campus lost their charter at some point. we lost ours in 2006 i think. we got re-colonized in 2013. the greek system there now is all dry houses, meaning no alcohol on the property. it is a good thing in my opinion. we had our fun with it, but looking back things could have been much, much worse.

    i don't have any answers for how to stop the sexual assaults. it is shameful. i never heard of anything like that happening in my house, but i am sure that they would have been kicked out and probably reported to the police, because disrespect of women was the one thing that did not fly in the house i was in.

    i will say that you can ban the greek system, but what is to stop a group of students from forming their own group who is unsanctioned by a national body? at least being sanctioned provides some sort of oversight to make sure that some of these things do not happen.
    I talk more to the people I met during my 3 years active at sigma pi than the people I spent the first 18 years of my life with. It's hard to explain the brotherhood that exists but it's definitely a special bond. It wasn't just the parties, it was the late night study sessions, the fund raisers, the house improvement projects, and countless other events that held us together. I consider some of those guys as family.
  • Under your skin Posts: 13,527
    gimmesometruth27 said:

    show previous quotes
    i was a sig pi too.

    back then i enjoyed it. when i joined i had just given up D1 college baseball due to injury. the only people i knew were the people on my team. i went through rush to meet people. and got in to one of the largest organizations on campus. there were a lot of guys from all different backgrounds and walks of life that i never would have met otherwise. some of the greatest experiences of my college years were a direct result of being in that organization. spring breaks, homecomings, charity events, being involved in student government, the occasional random, stupid and irresponsible road trip, etc. i have made lifelong friends that i still talk to all of the time. those people live all over the country. we helped each other with our classes, we helped each other land jobs, because you have a huge network when you get out of school.

    all of that said, there were a few bad things that happened. the main component was the lack of control of the underage drinking. we ended up on probation for a year because some sorority woman was at our house, walked across the street to her house, and passed out in the front yard. other houses got in trouble for hazing, one got busted by the dea for selling cocaine and steroids to undercover agents.... we had a little bit of hazing, but it was not drink hazing and it wasn't very physical. it was more mind games than anything, like being put in a no win situation where you were going to piss off one active or another. you just had to pick who could fuck you over less. one new years eve, a kid who was in a pledge class where i was a pledge trainer, was killed by a drunk driver on new years eve. that kind of ruined the whole experience for me. things got very real after that. not a new years eve goes by where i do not think of matt armin.

    in the end, every house on campus lost their charter at some point. we lost ours in 2006 i think. we got re-colonized in 2013. the greek system there now is all dry houses, meaning no alcohol on the property. it is a good thing in my opinion. we had our fun with it, but looking back things could have been much, much worse.

    i don't have any answers for how to stop the sexual assaults. it is shameful. i never heard of anything like that happening in my house, but i am sure that they would have been kicked out and probably reported to the police, because disrespect of women was the one thing that did not fly in the house i was in.

    i will say that you can ban the greek system, but what is to stop a group of students from forming their own group who is unsanctioned by a national body? at least being sanctioned provides some sort of oversight to make sure that some of these things do not happen.
    This so far is the best answer I've read on this, but I cannot contribute for I have NO experience in any of this field. I had better things to do than job knob with million dollar socialites, which was how it was at my University. ( basically I KNEW I wasn't cool enough, so never even tried). However, having gotten older and wiser, I do remember there being a PhiBetaKappa in one of my Equine History classes, and she looked like a snob, but was the sweetest girl ever, and she knew her stuff with animals! So I have recently had to admit, not alllllll sorority peeps are assholes etc.. Personally, I think it is part if our culture, adopted from Greek history, and as for hierarchy.. What WORLD do you live in?? Of course it's relevant! This entire system
    Of rank and follow weave through in life is built on it. Psychology says that's why siblings fight, it's ingrained in us, all living things. There must be leaders and there must be followers.. So there IS a system of hierarchy that applies even on the deepest of levels. And on that note, I am out of this convo, cause I have nothing concrete or based to contribute. Very interesting subject though!
  • Posts: 44,418
    rgambs said:

    From those who would keep the fraternity system in place, I am interested in what you think we should do to stop 20% of women in college from getting sexually assaulted?

    Also not exclusive to greek system. Food for thought.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    edited November 2014
    mickeyrat said:

    show previous quotes
    Also not exclusive to greek system. Food for thought.
    You are making it sound like fraternities are responsible for all sexual assault on college campuses. Of that 20% how much is inflicted by frat boys? My GUESS is less than 5%, which is still to much.
  • Posts: 13,576
    Last-12-Exit said:

    show previous quotes
    You are making it sound like fraternities are responsible for all sexual assault on college campuses. Of that 20% how much is inflicted by frat boys? My GUESS is less than 5%, which is still to much.
    Yeah I didn't realize I had portrayed it that way, of course it isn't the entire 20% but I'll bet it is a little over 5%... On top of that there is no way to quantify the effect of the "party school" mentality that fraternities perpetuate.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Posts: 13,576
    edited November 2014
    A quick search turned up these numbers...keeping in mind that the numbers can be disputed somewhat based on the method of survey, it is clear that fraternities and sororities are deeply enmeshed in campus sexual assault culture.

    http://www.safercampus.org/blog/2009/11/facts-about-college-sexual-assault/

    "34% percent of rapes and 45% of attempted rapes of college women take place on campus. Almost 60% of the rapes that take place on campus occur in the victim’s residence, 31% occur in another residence, and 10% occur in a fraternity."

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=UqJzVIzoPPfdsAS79oK4DA&url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campus_rape&ved=0CCkQFjAE&usg=AFQjCNEBoUE1BUJxqhy6dB7LHXznqvGCpA

    "Fifty-five to seventy percent of gang rape perpetrators belong to fraternities. Eighty-six percent of off-campus attempted rape or sexual assaults are at fraternity houses.[29] College gang rape tends to be perpetrated by middle- to upper-class men.[30]"

    http://www.fris.org/CampusSexualViolence/CampusSexViolence.html

    "Sexual assaults occur both on and off campus, in the victims' living quarters and other living quarters and at fraternities, bars, nightclubs and work settings (Fisher, Cullen & Turner, 2000). Research suggests that students who live in sorority houses or belong to sororities have an increased risk for sexual victimization (Copenhaver & Grauerholz, 1991; Franklin, 2010; Kalof, 1993; Mohler-Kuo et al., 2004; Tyler, Holt & Whitbeck, 1998)."

    "As indicated above, there is some evidence that being a member of a sorority increases the risk of sexual victimization. Fraternity members and student athletes are more likely than any other men on campus to commit a sexual assault (Murnen & Kohlman, 2007). Fisher, Cullen and Turner (2000) found that of the rapes reported by students surveyed in their study, 10.3 percent occurred in a fraternity house."
    Post edited by rgambs on
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,086
    Last-12-Exit said:

    show previous quotes
    You are making it sound like fraternities are responsible for all sexual assault on college campuses. Of that 20% how much is inflicted by frat boys? My GUESS is less than 5%, which is still to much.
    being an athletic trainer, and working with division 1 athletes, i can guarantee a higher percentage of offenders are among those athletes than greeks.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Posts: 13,576
    gimmesometruth27 said:

    show previous quotes
    being an athletic trainer, and working with division 1 athletes, i can guarantee a higher percentage of offenders are among those athletes than greeks.
    There is an overlap in there but yeah I can imagine you are right. The gang rape statistic is very troubling. Not at all trying to belittle or downplay ANY rape victim, but gang rape is particularly disgusting and I would imagine traumatic.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,086
    rgambs said:

    show previous quotes
    There is an overlap in there but yeah I can imagine you are right. The gang rape statistic is very troubling. Not at all trying to belittle or downplay ANY rape victim, but gang rape is particularly disgusting and I would imagine traumatic.
    i could not imagine anything worse than being gang raped. so terrible.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Posts: 19,305
    Goddammit, Rolling Stone ....

    Rolling Stone apologizes for 'discrepancies' in UVA rape story

    Facing increased scrutiny over an article about an alleged gang rape on the campus of the University of Virginia, Rolling Stone has issued a formal apology for its reporting .....

    news.yahoo.com/rolling-stone-uva-rape-story-retraction-180722194.html
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • So Cal Posts: 2,996
    Jason P said:

    Goddammit, Rolling Stone ....

    Rolling Stone apologizes for 'discrepancies' in UVA rape story

    Facing increased scrutiny over an article about an alleged gang rape on the campus of the University of Virginia, Rolling Stone has issued a formal apology for its reporting .....

    news.yahoo.com/rolling-stone-uva-rape-story-retraction-180722194.html

    Agree. When I read the article I swear something didn't feel right and I told my husband. Early in the article the reporter talked about how most of the students are blond, tanned, and toned (or something like that). I went to UVa and that wasn't true back then. I was just back there for my daughter to check out out the school and it didn't look like that either. So I was suspicious about the reporter - did she really visit UVa?

    That being said, it makes me sad if this turns out to be a Tawana Brawley type thing. Sad for all the women who really are sexually assaulted and are afraid of coming forward.

    Shame on that stupidass reporter.
  • Posts: 44,418
    edited December 2014
    Not likely to end up as a Brawley type thing. Alleged attackers weren't named , it wasn't a fase police report etc.

    What it has doen, true or partially true or not is shine a significant spotlight on a very real occurance nationwide. I hope ALL Institutions take a hard look and honest look at what goes on and does what it can to encourage victims to come forward , to investigate in good faith and not try to lay it off as some kind of academic punishment , keeping shit hush hush.


    Hopefully this has woken up young people too. To be aware of the dangers present and protect themselves accordingly. No one else will do it.

    (this in no way suggests victims of rape are to blame for what happens to them)
    Post edited by mickeyrat on
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Posts: 49,594
    Enkidu said:

    show previous quotes
    Agree. When I read the article I swear something didn't feel right and I told my husband.

    Shame on that stupidass reporter.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx8r-TiLSVg
    www.myspace.com
  • So Cal Posts: 2,996
    The UVa thing made me so pissed off I wrote about it. Really. Comment on the site if you'd like.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ann-lewis-hamilton/and-what-should-i-have-do_b_6318236.html
  • Posts: 11,854
    where I went to school, the Frats were nothing but organized gangs. From group beatdowns in and behind bars to a drug trade network.
  • Posts: 44,418
    Enkidu said:

    The UVa thing made me so pissed off I wrote about it. Really. Comment on the site if you'd like.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ann-lewis-hamilton/and-what-should-i-have-do_b_6318236.html

    Very well written. Thanks for sharing.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • So Cal Posts: 2,996
    mickeyrat said:

    show previous quotes
    Very well written. Thanks for sharing.
    Thanks for reading it. Want to know something funny? The guy is a newspaper reporter. And his last article? About the rape at UVa. Can you say "irony?" I'm tempted to send the piece to him.
  • Posts: 44,418
    Enkidu said:

    show previous quotes
    Thanks for reading it. Want to know something funny? The guy is a newspaper reporter. And his last article? About the rape at UVa. Can you say "irony?" I'm tempted to send the piece to him.
    you should.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14

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