Police abuse
Comments
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unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487I guess I'm just sick of seeing them put on a pedestal.
I don't buy the whole pay them more so they do a better job argument. Does that mean they'll stop harassing people? Will they stop dragging people out of their homes at gunpoint like they did in Boston? Will they not illegally confiscate firearms like did during Katrina? Will they stop shooting dogs? Will they stop murdering people by using chokeholds?
Oh wait they are just doing their jobs, just following orders and procedures.
Now they just make more doing it.0 -
its not about putting them on a pedestal at all. what we are saying is that when you pay people more you are going to get people who might want to be cops join and when you can get more people for a job you can expect more from them.unsung said:I guess I'm just sick of seeing them put on a pedestal.
I don't buy the whole pay them more so they do a better job argument. Does that mean they'll stop harassing people? Will they stop dragging people out of their homes at gunpoint like they did in Boston? Will they not illegally confiscate firearms like did during Katrina? Will they stop shooting dogs? Will they stop murdering people by using chokeholds?
Oh wait they are just doing their jobs, just following orders and procedures.
Now they just make more doing it.
when demand for police officers are high but enrollment is low, you are going to get cops that might not be good. you might gets those cops that went into the twin towers to get people out and risking their lives.
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unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487I don't know if I go for that.
My stepfather became a cop back in the early 80's iirc. People did it back them because it was a decent job and they actually wanted to help people.
Now it's a different mentality, and I know because I dated a female officer. Most of them have these holier than thou attitudes where they really believe that they are special. Instead of doing good for the community they sign on because of the thrill, plus many are out of the military so it's a natural fit.
Someone else hit it on the nose, a lot are the jocks that bullied people, or the people that never got invited to parties so it's a head trip for them.0 -
I don't know if its fair to label all police officer as holier than thou cause you dated 1 female cop who was like that. .unsung said:I don't know if I go for that.
My stepfather became a cop back in the early 80's iirc. People did it back them because it was a decent job and they actually wanted to help people.
Now it's a different mentality, and I know because I dated a female officer. Most of them have these holier than thou attitudes where they really believe that they are special. Instead of doing good for the community they sign on because of the thrill, plus many are out of the military so it's a natural fit.
Someone else hit it on the nose, a lot are the jocks that bullied people, or the people that never got invited to parties so it's a head trip for them.
do you really believe that it is not better for any industry to have more people wanting a job than job themselves?
again no one here has said that all police are great or even good. what we are saying is that most are pretty good.0 -
i believe that higher pay would indirectly lead to more accountability... As a city, if you are paying out the ass you are more likely to be involved in the implementation, plain and simple. I believe we need higher intelligence and training standards, and governing bodies made of civillians and industry peeps working together..
The problem i dont have an answer to is the issue of cops protecting cops. Until this is circumvented there isnt much that will actually take hold and make a difference.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
its is the last 2 sentences that i think is the hard part. i have talked to cops about that and I think the main issue is that they are like brother. they protect themselves cause it is the brother will protect them in the field.rgambs said:i believe that higher pay would indirectly lead to more accountability... As a city, if you are paying out the ass you are more likely to be involved in the implementation, plain and simple. I believe we need higher intelligence and training standards, and governing bodies made of civillians and industry peeps working together..
The problem i dont have an answer to is the issue of cops protecting cops. Until this is circumvented there isnt much that will actually take hold and make a difference.
I might not agree to that but I have also heard soldiers saying the same thing. I am one to believe that sometimes you have to hit a brother upside the head sometimes.0 -
haha yes brothers tell it like it is or they arent worth anything. The para-military aspect has always been a thorn in my side. When men get together and form "brotherhoods" trouble ensues. Look at the way soldiers behave on the battlefield, whatever army they serve, when you put a weapon in their hands they turn into monsters. We have to do a better job in training them, teach them to be more like social workers and less like soldiers!! Also, weed out those with the "jarhead" attitude because it has no place patrolling the streets.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0
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we have this thing in Toronto which is call the crisis mobile team. its usually 2 cops and a social worker and 1 mental health nurse. basically their jobs is to assist people in mental health crisis in getting to a hospital. the police get training around mental health and addictions and non violent interventions. i have been calling on the city to actually make that training mandatory for all police. all the cops i know love it.rgambs said:haha yes brothers tell it like it is or they arent worth anything. The para-military aspect has always been a thorn in my side. When men get together and form "brotherhoods" trouble ensues. Look at the way soldiers behave on the battlefield, whatever army they serve, when you put a weapon in their hands they turn into monsters. We have to do a better job in training them, teach them to be more like social workers and less like soldiers!! Also, weed out those with the "jarhead" attitude because it has no place patrolling the streets.
concerning the jarhead mentality, i could not agree with you more. I wonder if that attitude happens more in small towns or in large cities. i have grown up in a large city all my life but i have friends in the usa who comes from small towns and they tell me stories about like highschool football players being gods in their cities.0 -
yes i am small town in ohio. Picture corn feilds and oil wells lolfife said:
we have this thing in Toronto which is call the crisis mobile team. its usually 2 cops and a social worker and 1 mental health nurse. basically their jobs is to assist people in mental health crisis in getting to a hospital. the police get training around mental health and addictions and non violent interventions. i have been calling on the city to actually make that training mandatory for all police. all the cops i know love it.rgambs said:haha yes brothers tell it like it is or they arent worth anything. The para-military aspect has always been a thorn in my side. When men get together and form "brotherhoods" trouble ensues. Look at the way soldiers behave on the battlefield, whatever army they serve, when you put a weapon in their hands they turn into monsters. We have to do a better job in training them, teach them to be more like social workers and less like soldiers!! Also, weed out those with the "jarhead" attitude because it has no place patrolling the streets.
concerning the jarhead mentality, i could not agree with you more. I wonder if that attitude happens more in small towns or in large cities. i have grown up in a large city all my life but i have friends in the usa who comes from small towns and they tell me stories about like highschool football players being gods in their cities.
i can say that the "jarhead mentality" i am talking about is probably more prevalent in small towns. Like you said and unsung also, the big shots languish after highschool glory and many turn to police work. Small communities have a wonderful investment in the youth and this "highschool celebrity" that ensues is an ugly side effect. The funny thing is, that paramilitary attitude would be much more appropriate in a large city than a small town. Not saying it is effective, but at least your "brothers" need you looking out for them.
I love the sound of the program you are talking about in Toronto. I would bet that every year there are close to millions of arrests, citations, and confrontations that would never have happened if the officer involved had simply talked to the civillians like human beings who deserve respect AND compassion.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
*to clarify i meant, in these arrests, citations, and incidents, violence could be avoided.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0
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Toronto Police have recently been damaged with alot of bad cases where they have shot people with mental health issues. its a damm shame, . I had a client who was killed by a cop about 1 year ago. when you talk to cops, they don't get alot of training around mental health. i once called the crisis mobile team as i had a client who had a gun to his head in front of me and they were amazing with this client. they were able to calm him down and got him directly into a mental health program which sadly are hard to get into. after talking to these cops, they also realize that people with mental health issues and addictions issue don't belong in jails but in hospitals and detoxs.rgambs said:
yes i am small town in ohio. Picture corn feilds and oil wells lolfife said:
we have this thing in Toronto which is call the crisis mobile team. its usually 2 cops and a social worker and 1 mental health nurse. basically their jobs is to assist people in mental health crisis in getting to a hospital. the police get training around mental health and addictions and non violent interventions. i have been calling on the city to actually make that training mandatory for all police. all the cops i know love it.rgambs said:haha yes brothers tell it like it is or they arent worth anything. The para-military aspect has always been a thorn in my side. When men get together and form "brotherhoods" trouble ensues. Look at the way soldiers behave on the battlefield, whatever army they serve, when you put a weapon in their hands they turn into monsters. We have to do a better job in training them, teach them to be more like social workers and less like soldiers!! Also, weed out those with the "jarhead" attitude because it has no place patrolling the streets.
concerning the jarhead mentality, i could not agree with you more. I wonder if that attitude happens more in small towns or in large cities. i have grown up in a large city all my life but i have friends in the usa who comes from small towns and they tell me stories about like highschool football players being gods in their cities.
i can say that the "jarhead mentality" i am talking about is probably more prevalent in small towns. Like you said and unsung also, the big shots languish after highschool glory and many turn to police work. Small communities have a wonderful investment in the youth and this "highschool celebrity" that ensues is an ugly side effect. The funny thing is, that paramilitary attitude would be much more appropriate in a large city than a small town. Not saying it is effective, but at least your "brothers" need you looking out for them.
I love the sound of the program you are talking about in Toronto. I would bet that every year there are close to millions of arrests, citations, and confrontations that would never have happened if the officer involved had simply talked to the civillians like human beings who deserve respect AND compassion.
i believe that police forces need to do alot of work in their communities to fix the preconception that people like unsung have.
here is a funny story, i remember my first day on my job and I had to go to the biggest men shelter in i believe Canada at 7:30 am. on one side of the street, there were people smoking crack in broad daylight and on the other side you had like 4 cop cars. both sides didn't do anything. I talked to my client and he said the police leave them alone. I talked to a cop afterward and he told me that he was there to make sure that nothing got out of control as you get alot of violent people at the shelter when people get their welfare and they are there to make sure that people don't get hurt.
this builds trust and cops have to get better at doing that.
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unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
I certainly know more than just her, I grew up around it. I saw the changes first hand.fife said:
I don't know if its fair to label all police officer as holier than thou cause you dated 1 female cop who was like that. .unsung said:I don't know if I go for that.
My stepfather became a cop back in the early 80's iirc. People did it back them because it was a decent job and they actually wanted to help people.
Now it's a different mentality, and I know because I dated a female officer. Most of them have these holier than thou attitudes where they really believe that they are special. Instead of doing good for the community they sign on because of the thrill, plus many are out of the military so it's a natural fit.
Someone else hit it on the nose, a lot are the jocks that bullied people, or the people that never got invited to parties so it's a head trip for them.
do you really believe that it is not better for any industry to have more people wanting a job than job themselves?
again no one here has said that all police are great or even good. what we are saying is that most are pretty good.0 -
unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487rgambs said:
*to clarify i meant, in these arrests, citations, and incidents, violence could be avoided.
I completely understand your point but you are missing the reason why this is so.
Tickets and arrests equal revenue.
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unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
It's not a preconception when one has lived it. I'm not an outsider.fife said:
Toronto Police have recently been damaged with alot of bad cases where they have shot people with mental health issues. its a damm shame, . I had a client who was killed by a cop about 1 year ago. when you talk to cops, they don't get alot of training around mental health. i once called the crisis mobile team as i had a client who had a gun to his head in front of me and they were amazing with this client. they were able to calm him down and got him directly into a mental health program which sadly are hard to get into. after talking to these cops, they also realize that people with mental health issues and addictions issue don't belong in jails but in hospitals and detoxs.rgambs said:
yes i am small town in ohio. Picture corn feilds and oil wells lolfife said:
we have this thing in Toronto which is call the crisis mobile team. its usually 2 cops and a social worker and 1 mental health nurse. basically their jobs is to assist people in mental health crisis in getting to a hospital. the police get training around mental health and addictions and non violent interventions. i have been calling on the city to actually make that training mandatory for all police. all the cops i know love it.rgambs said:haha yes brothers tell it like it is or they arent worth anything. The para-military aspect has always been a thorn in my side. When men get together and form "brotherhoods" trouble ensues. Look at the way soldiers behave on the battlefield, whatever army they serve, when you put a weapon in their hands they turn into monsters. We have to do a better job in training them, teach them to be more like social workers and less like soldiers!! Also, weed out those with the "jarhead" attitude because it has no place patrolling the streets.
concerning the jarhead mentality, i could not agree with you more. I wonder if that attitude happens more in small towns or in large cities. i have grown up in a large city all my life but i have friends in the usa who comes from small towns and they tell me stories about like highschool football players being gods in their cities.
i can say that the "jarhead mentality" i am talking about is probably more prevalent in small towns. Like you said and unsung also, the big shots languish after highschool glory and many turn to police work. Small communities have a wonderful investment in the youth and this "highschool celebrity" that ensues is an ugly side effect. The funny thing is, that paramilitary attitude would be much more appropriate in a large city than a small town. Not saying it is effective, but at least your "brothers" need you looking out for them.
I love the sound of the program you are talking about in Toronto. I would bet that every year there are close to millions of arrests, citations, and confrontations that would never have happened if the officer involved had simply talked to the civillians like human beings who deserve respect AND compassion.
i believe that police forces need to do alot of work in their communities to fix the preconception that people like unsung have.
here is a funny story, i remember my first day on my job and I had to go to the biggest men shelter in i believe Canada at 7:30 am. on one side of the street, there were people smoking crack in broad daylight and on the other side you had like 4 cop cars. both sides didn't do anything. I talked to my client and he said the police leave them alone. I talked to a cop afterward and he told me that he was there to make sure that nothing got out of control as you get alot of violent people at the shelter when people get their welfare and they are there to make sure that people don't get hurt.
this builds trust and cops have to get better at doing that.
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sorry I am sorry about that. the preconception that i believe you have is when you say things like they all have this holier than thou view of themselves or when you say that they were loser in high school who never went to parties or they were jocks in school who bullied people. this is a preconception.unsung said:
It's not a preconception when one has lived it. I'm not an outsider.fife said:
Toronto Police have recently been damaged with alot of bad cases where they have shot people with mental health issues. its a damm shame, . I had a client who was killed by a cop about 1 year ago. when you talk to cops, they don't get alot of training around mental health. i once called the crisis mobile team as i had a client who had a gun to his head in front of me and they were amazing with this client. they were able to calm him down and got him directly into a mental health program which sadly are hard to get into. after talking to these cops, they also realize that people with mental health issues and addictions issue don't belong in jails but in hospitals and detoxs.rgambs said:
yes i am small town in ohio. Picture corn feilds and oil wells lolfife said:
we have this thing in Toronto which is call the crisis mobile team. its usually 2 cops and a social worker and 1 mental health nurse. basically their jobs is to assist people in mental health crisis in getting to a hospital. the police get training around mental health and addictions and non violent interventions. i have been calling on the city to actually make that training mandatory for all police. all the cops i know love it.rgambs said:haha yes brothers tell it like it is or they arent worth anything. The para-military aspect has always been a thorn in my side. When men get together and form "brotherhoods" trouble ensues. Look at the way soldiers behave on the battlefield, whatever army they serve, when you put a weapon in their hands they turn into monsters. We have to do a better job in training them, teach them to be more like social workers and less like soldiers!! Also, weed out those with the "jarhead" attitude because it has no place patrolling the streets.
concerning the jarhead mentality, i could not agree with you more. I wonder if that attitude happens more in small towns or in large cities. i have grown up in a large city all my life but i have friends in the usa who comes from small towns and they tell me stories about like highschool football players being gods in their cities.
i can say that the "jarhead mentality" i am talking about is probably more prevalent in small towns. Like you said and unsung also, the big shots languish after highschool glory and many turn to police work. Small communities have a wonderful investment in the youth and this "highschool celebrity" that ensues is an ugly side effect. The funny thing is, that paramilitary attitude would be much more appropriate in a large city than a small town. Not saying it is effective, but at least your "brothers" need you looking out for them.
I love the sound of the program you are talking about in Toronto. I would bet that every year there are close to millions of arrests, citations, and confrontations that would never have happened if the officer involved had simply talked to the civillians like human beings who deserve respect AND compassion.
i believe that police forces need to do alot of work in their communities to fix the preconception that people like unsung have.
here is a funny story, i remember my first day on my job and I had to go to the biggest men shelter in i believe Canada at 7:30 am. on one side of the street, there were people smoking crack in broad daylight and on the other side you had like 4 cop cars. both sides didn't do anything. I talked to my client and he said the police leave them alone. I talked to a cop afterward and he told me that he was there to make sure that nothing got out of control as you get alot of violent people at the shelter when people get their welfare and they are there to make sure that people don't get hurt.
this builds trust and cops have to get better at doing that.
its like when people say that people who have guns have some balls. its not true.0 -
also, btw unsung, i don;t blame you for having these idea. I understand them. alot of my client hate social worker cause they have had bad experiences with social workers. thats easy to understand0
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unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487Yes, not all of them are bad people. But I will go to my grave knowing the things that I do and I will say that some of the slimiest people I have ever met are cops.
Growing up I never had this opinion. Experiencing this in my adult life, from a first hand perspective, I can honestly say my views on the police have drastically changed. I have never been around a more corrupt, arrogant, and disloyal group of people in any single profession in my life.Post edited by unsung on0 -
unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487fife said:
its like when people say that people who have guns have some balls. its not true.
Is that really a shot at gun owners in this thread?
Post edited by unsung on0 -
you should met some addictions worker where i come from. Just joking.unsung said:Yes, not all of them are bad people. But I will go to my grave knowing the things that I do and I will say that some of the slimiest people I have ever met are cops.
Growing up I never had this opinion. Experiencing this in my adult life, from a first hand perspective, I can honestly say my views on the police have drastically changed. I have never been around a more corrupt, arrogant, and disloyal group of people in any single profession in my life.
the real question that we have to answer is how do we change this? how do we change the police?
I really do believe that many are good and other are crap. how do we get the crap ones out? do we need to get the unions out? do we need higher qualifications to become a police officer? is it just a sign of the times that more people are just bigger assholes?0 -
Great post.fife said:
Toronto Police have recently been damaged with alot of bad cases where they have shot people with mental health issues. its a damm shame, . I had a client who was killed by a cop about 1 year ago. when you talk to cops, they don't get alot of training around mental health. i once called the crisis mobile team as i had a client who had a gun to his head in front of me and they were amazing with this client. they were able to calm him down and got him directly into a mental health program which sadly are hard to get into. after talking to these cops, they also realize that people with mental health issues and addictions issue don't belong in jails but in hospitals and detoxs.rgambs said:
yes i am small town in ohio. Picture corn feilds and oil wells lolfife said:
we have this thing in Toronto which is call the crisis mobile team. its usually 2 cops and a social worker and 1 mental health nurse. basically their jobs is to assist people in mental health crisis in getting to a hospital. the police get training around mental health and addictions and non violent interventions. i have been calling on the city to actually make that training mandatory for all police. all the cops i know love it.rgambs said:haha yes brothers tell it like it is or they arent worth anything. The para-military aspect has always been a thorn in my side. When men get together and form "brotherhoods" trouble ensues. Look at the way soldiers behave on the battlefield, whatever army they serve, when you put a weapon in their hands they turn into monsters. We have to do a better job in training them, teach them to be more like social workers and less like soldiers!! Also, weed out those with the "jarhead" attitude because it has no place patrolling the streets.
concerning the jarhead mentality, i could not agree with you more. I wonder if that attitude happens more in small towns or in large cities. i have grown up in a large city all my life but i have friends in the usa who comes from small towns and they tell me stories about like highschool football players being gods in their cities.
i can say that the "jarhead mentality" i am talking about is probably more prevalent in small towns. Like you said and unsung also, the big shots languish after highschool glory and many turn to police work. Small communities have a wonderful investment in the youth and this "highschool celebrity" that ensues is an ugly side effect. The funny thing is, that paramilitary attitude would be much more appropriate in a large city than a small town. Not saying it is effective, but at least your "brothers" need you looking out for them.
I love the sound of the program you are talking about in Toronto. I would bet that every year there are close to millions of arrests, citations, and confrontations that would never have happened if the officer involved had simply talked to the civillians like human beings who deserve respect AND compassion.
i believe that police forces need to do alot of work in their communities to fix the preconception that people like unsung have.
here is a funny story, i remember my first day on my job and I had to go to the biggest men shelter in i believe Canada at 7:30 am. on one side of the street, there were people smoking crack in broad daylight and on the other side you had like 4 cop cars. both sides didn't do anything. I talked to my client and he said the police leave them alone. I talked to a cop afterward and he told me that he was there to make sure that nothing got out of control as you get alot of violent people at the shelter when people get their welfare and they are there to make sure that people don't get hurt.
this builds trust and cops have to get better at doing that.
I don't know the additional training the police in my area have, but without fail, each time I've seen them interact with those who have mental issues, they've acted with compassion and gentleness.
I have to admit, though, there have been an awful lot of instances lately within LA and surrounding areas of officers going overboard, jumping the gun, etc.
The other day, I heard an officer who called into a radio show say that within the force, "different rankings get different spankings", which is kind of fucked up.
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