Yasmin Mogahed open letter #Gaza
badbrains
Posts: 10,255
"I used to wonder why some Palestinian people would engage in actions that could only provoke the aggressor further. Then I realized that to ask a people to live quietly, while they have no justice and no freedom, is to ask them to live "peacefully" as slaves. "Peace" without justice or freedom is slavery. It's like asking a battered woman to live "peacefully" with her abuser. We all want the bloodshed to stop. But what about the daily humiliation and institutionalized oppression?
I was reminded of a part in "The Hunger Games" when Katniss considers abandoning the resistance against the oppressor, in exchange for "safety". Gale's response was telling. He said: "Safe to do what? Starve? Work like slaves? Send their kids to the reaping?"
Consider this: If a woman is being raped, things would be a lot more "peaceful" if she didn't resist. But, asking her not to resist--just because her attacker is physically stronger--is asking her to accept her own abuse and oppression for the sake of "peace". This is what the world is asking Palestinians to do.
And sometimes what seems to the world as just ineffective tactics, like throwing a rock at a tank, is in fact an act of resistance. It is a powerful statement to the oppressor--and the world--that they refuse to be enslaved. That dignity and self-respect are even more beloved to them than their own lives.
It is a statement that you can take their lives. But not their freedom."
~ Yasmin Mogahed
I was reminded of a part in "The Hunger Games" when Katniss considers abandoning the resistance against the oppressor, in exchange for "safety". Gale's response was telling. He said: "Safe to do what? Starve? Work like slaves? Send their kids to the reaping?"
Consider this: If a woman is being raped, things would be a lot more "peaceful" if she didn't resist. But, asking her not to resist--just because her attacker is physically stronger--is asking her to accept her own abuse and oppression for the sake of "peace". This is what the world is asking Palestinians to do.
And sometimes what seems to the world as just ineffective tactics, like throwing a rock at a tank, is in fact an act of resistance. It is a powerful statement to the oppressor--and the world--that they refuse to be enslaved. That dignity and self-respect are even more beloved to them than their own lives.
It is a statement that you can take their lives. But not their freedom."
~ Yasmin Mogahed
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Comments
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I'm of two minds on this. On one hand I want the occupation to end, but on the other (and currently more urgently) I want the massacre to stop. I understand and agree with the need to resist the occupation. Resistance can take many forms.
I don't think currently resisting by firing rockets is helping Gaza. They are not successfully defending themselves and they are providing the Israelis with an excuse to keep up the onslaught. The smart move seems to be to hold fire, announce to the world they are doing so, and then dare the Israelis to do the same.
I'm not saying the Palestinians don't have a right to defend themselves. They do. But what they are doing now is not resisting or defending themselves. They need a new tactic.___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
jimmy, the palestinians have honored the cease fires. israel keeps breaking them. byrnzie posted about this in the last few pages of the locked gaza thread. all of the information is there. all of the proof is there. just go read it.
hamas is firing rockets because nobody is helping them. nobody with an army will fight on their behalf. nobody with an air force will fight on their behalf. they are fighting back with the best weapons they have, which are useless against idf, which is armed directly and indirectly by the united states. when the palestinians do nothing, their story and struggle falls out of the news cycle and everybody in the world forgets about it. when they lob rockets, it is HUGE news and brings international attention to their plight. public opinion is being swayed to the palestinians side right now. i am thinking that their rationale is "why stop now? the eyes of the world are upon us. we would rather die fighting than live as slaves.""You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
ask yourself this.
where are all of the israel supporters on amt now? where is yosi, and ogre, and raifi, and the others that staunchly defend israel's policies on here?? there is a wealth of evidence against the israeli government. so much so, that they can not deny it anymore. they can not make excuses for it anymore. they can not justify it anymore."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
It is a good question. I too have wondered where they have gone.___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
to quote byrnzie from the gaza thread:
Who violates ceasefires more, Israelis or Palestinians?:
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/infographic-who-violates-ceasefires-more-israelis-or-palestinians
The United States and other governments have harshly blamed Hamas for the ongoing slaughter in Gaza because they refused a unilateral “ceasefire” declared by Israel on 14 July through its Egyptian proxy.
But as dozens of prominent figures in Gaza civil society write, “Hamas represented the sentiment of the vast majority of residents when it rejected the unilateral ceasefire proposed by Egypt and Israel without consulting anyone in Gaza.”
“We share the broadly held public sentiment that it is unacceptable to merely return to the status quo” of devastating Israeli siege on Gaza, the civil society leaders said. “To do so would mean a return to a living death.”
To put the situation in context, Visualizing Palestine (visualizingpalestine.org) created this infographic that charts the routine violations of the last Egyptian-brokered ceasefire from 22 November 2012 until 7 July 2014.
http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/235555/gaza/p25"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
That's not really fair, gimme. Shouldn't be expected that someone's first instinct in life and in light of shit going down is to head to the PJ board and post away. Another eloquent poster - and I believe not pro-Israel - VivaPalestine (apologies if I fucked up the name) isn't here either.gimmesometruth27 said:ask yourself this.
where are all of the israel supporters on amt now? where is yosi, and ogre, and raifi, and the others that staunchly defend israel's policies on here?? there is a wealth of evidence against the israeli government. so much so, that they can not deny it anymore. they can not make excuses for it anymore. they can not justify it anymore.
Can we not assign motives to people? Here, at the least?
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Maybe they got called back to Israel by the idf?gimmesometruth27 said:ask yourself this.
where are all of the israel supporters on amt now? where is yosi, and ogre, and raifi, and the others that staunchly defend israel's policies on here?? there is a wealth of evidence against the israeli government. so much so, that they can not deny it anymore. they can not make excuses for it anymore. they can not justify it anymore.0 -
Maybe there should be a separate forum for discussions on this conflict....because with those 2 groups it's never ever ever going to end.The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.0 -
all i was saying is that if there was a definitive case being made against a position or cause that i support, at some point, i would more than likely give up trying to defend my position. perhaps that is what happened, perhaps not. what i do know is this... there is no defending or justifying what israel is doing right now. there is no legal or moral basis for what they are doing.hedonist said:
That's not really fair, gimme. Shouldn't be expected that someone's first instinct in life and in light of shit going down is to head to the PJ board and post away. Another eloquent poster - and I believe not pro-Israel - VivaPalestine (apologies if I fucked up the name) isn't here either.
Can we not assign motives to people? Here, at the least?"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
Wonderful perspective in this letter. Thanks for sharing it with us.
If I were Israeli I dont know that I would post here at this time. Skin is only so thick._____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
Oh come on kettle....how many police and gun threads do you start, with no end in site for those issues either?know1 said:Maybe there should be a separate forum for discussions on this conflict....because with those 2 groups it's never ever ever going to end.
The point in the op is well taken. One thing I've noticed with this latest aggression from Israel...they're creating a huge number of Hamas sympathizers. When this began, not many people were willing to defend Hamas actions. Now, most people I speak to say things like 'what would you do in their situation? I don't blame them one bit'...
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Don't think I've ever started one of those threads. Can you show me where I have?Drowned Out said:
Oh come on kettle....how many police and gun threads do you start, with no end in site for those issues either?
The point in the op is well taken. One thing I've noticed with this latest aggression from Israel...they're creating a huge number of Hamas sympathizers. When this began, not many people were willing to defend Hamas actions. Now, most people I speak to say things like 'what would you do in their situation? I don't blame them one bit'...The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.0 -
I think maybe he meant unsung??? Idk, I usually stay out of gun threads.know1 said:
Don't think I've ever started one of those threads. Can you show me where I have?0 -
Hm. I have to think about this one. I'm not sure that Hamas sympathizers is the right term. First of all, the news primarily tells of the innocents (civilians) when it reports on the brutality. The militant numbers are also far lower than the civilian casualties (which is curious when one country's intelligence is supposedly so far greater than the other's), and psychologically, that harm is minimal relative to civilians (since militants are expected to have opted-in, with an understanding of potentially being put in harm's way). I see this as creating a large number of Palestinian sympathizers (which is a good thing), with Hamas' actions (ie. the rockets being launched in Israel's direction) on behalf of (and via) its citizens being tolerated.Drowned Out said:
Oh come on kettle....how many police and gun threads do you start, with no end in site for those issues either?
The point in the op is well taken. One thing I've noticed with this latest aggression from Israel...they're creating a huge number of Hamas sympathizers. When this began, not many people were willing to defend Hamas actions. Now, most people I speak to say things like 'what would you do in their situation? I don't blame them one bit'...
I've said it before and I'll say it again though: a government's first obligation is to protect its citizens, and in the eventuality of a two-state solution (which I keep my fingers crossed for each day), Israel's citizens most definitely will be targeted with hatred which began out of oppression, and will likely exist after oppression. So, to send rockets into Israel, from my perspective, is counter-productive from Hamas' perspective if their goal is a two-state solution, as it legitimizes hatred ("you threw rockets at me, so I hate you" - though, of course, that's not the full story). I have the exact same feeling about Israel's horrendous aggression towards the Palestinian regions, and think that Netanyahu's insistence that there will never be a two-state solution is actually CAUSED by his own government's aggression and imposed oppression. How's that for circular logic?
PS, I realized that was mildly confusing, hope I expressed myself properly there.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
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Lol...sorry man, rushed post. Thought I was quoting someone elseknow1 said:
Don't think I've ever started one of those threads. Can you show me where I have?
8-}0 -
I see what you're saying...and unfortunately I don't have time to reply to all of this tonight. I'm speaking mostly about casual, uncensored conversations with people who don't know a lot of background on the occupation...they're all angry about this. Before this started, in any conversation I had, condemnation of Hamas violence was virtually universal...now people see these images of entire city blocks levelled, and the rockets don't seem so unreasonable. It's not hard for people to imagine themselves in gaza with their loved ones, considering the way social media has allowed us to see so much pain in real time. And if you try to put yourself in the shoes of those who have lost everything, it's not hard for the most pacifist person to imagine themselves partaking in the violence. That's what I'm getting from conversations I've had, anyway.benjs said:
Hm. I have to think about this one. I'm not sure that Hamas sympathizers is the right term. First of all, the news primarily tells of the innocents (civilians) when it reports on the brutality. The militant numbers are also far lower than the civilian casualties (which is curious when one country's intelligence is supposedly so far greater than the other's), and psychologically, that harm is minimal relative to civilians (since militants are expected to have opted-in, with an understanding of potentially being put in harm's way). I see this as creating a large number of Palestinian sympathizers (which is a good thing), with Hamas' actions (ie. the rockets being launched in Israel's direction) on behalf of (and via) its citizens being tolerated.
I've said it before and I'll say it again though: a government's first obligation is to protect its citizens, and in the eventuality of a two-state solution (which I keep my fingers crossed for each day), Israel's citizens most definitely will be targeted with hatred which began out of oppression, and will likely exist after oppression. So, to send rockets into Israel, from my perspective, is counter-productive from Hamas' perspective if their goal is a two-state solution, as it legitimizes hatred ("you threw rockets at me, so I hate you" - though, of course, that's not the full story). I have the exact same feeling about Israel's horrendous aggression towards the Palestinian regions, and think that Netanyahu's insistence that there will never be a two-state solution is actually CAUSED by his own government's aggression and imposed oppression. How's that for circular logic?
PS, I realized that was mildly confusing, hope I expressed myself properly there.0 -
Was it really necessary to start another Gaza thread?0
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Yes Byrnzie. The other closed briefly because of some language that was used._____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
I see a changing tide in opinion here, with sympathy for Gaza and contempt for Israel both on the rise. That doesn't necessarily equate to sympathy for Hamas, and I have not heard anyone in my face to face conversations express such sentiment. The tide has turned for Gaza and against Israel, but not for Hamas.Drowned Out said:
I see what you're saying...and unfortunately I don't have time to reply to all of this tonight. I'm speaking mostly about casual, uncensored conversations with people who don't know a lot of background on the occupation...they're all angry about this. Before this started, in any conversation I had, condemnation of Hamas violence was virtually universal...now people see these images of entire city blocks levelled, and the rockets don't seem so unreasonable. It's not hard for people to imagine themselves in gaza with their loved ones, considering the way social media has allowed us to see so much pain in real time. And if you try to put yourself in the shoes of those who have lost everything, it's not hard for the most pacifist person to imagine themselves partaking in the violence. That's what I'm getting from conversations I've had, anyway.
___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
I agree with jimmy. When you have Hollywood speaking out knowing it could be career suicide, twitter feeds everywhere showing what's happening, and as much as I hate FB, info Is coming out in a rapid pace. Tide is changing and I can't believe it. I honestly don't think Israel knows what to do. I dont think they thought it was gonna turn out like this. Or they just don't give a fuck. Shit even Sweden didn't let Peres use there air space heading towards Norway. Shit like that would never happen in the past. And when u see their leaders speak, it's like they don't know what to say or do anymore. Their lies aren't working anymore, the media is starting to slowly cave in and people ALL OVER THE WORLD have spoken up.JimmyV said:
I see a changing tide in opinion here, with sympathy for Gaza and contempt for Israel both on the rise. That doesn't necessarily equate to sympathy for Hamas, and I have not heard anyone in my face to face conversations express such sentiment. The tide has turned for Gaza and against Israel, but not for Hamas.0
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