Jewish Settler Attacks = Terrorism
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Here's the definition of ethnic cleansing:JohnnieBeBlue said:1) I support Israel. I don't believe what is happening is ethnic cleansing. That is a gross oversimplification of a complex situation for the purposes of shock and propaganda.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing
'Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of creating a territory inhabited by people of a homogeneous or pure ethnicity, religion, culture, and history. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
Ethnic cleansing is usually accompanied with the efforts to remove physical and cultural evidence of the targeted group in the territory through the destruction of homes, social centers, farms, and infrastructure, and by the desecration of monuments, cemeteries, and places of worship.'
Israeli leaders, along with prominent Israeli historians, themselves have described what's happening in the region as ethnic cleansing. But you don't believe it is.
Nice way of avoiding addressing any of my points. And your pathetic article is hardly worth responding to. Some people on 'Trip Advisor' have described Gaza as paradise? Really? And that's enough evidence to satisfy you is it?JohnnieBeBlue said:2) What did Israel give up? They were pressured to "remove settlements" just as you and your ilk are always demanding. Did it give more security in Gaza for Israel? I'd say just the opposite. To people like you, everything Israel does is a public relations ploy. Is Gaza a nice place to live? Hardly. Is it a prison as you would like to suggest? Hardly. http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/steve-feldman/gaza-prison-or-paradise/
By the way, David Horowitz is a neo-Conservative racist and bigot. Is he a hero of yours?
http://www.counterpunch.org/2005/04/11/david-horowitz-s-corrosive-projects/
'FrontPage (FP) is primarily a platform for extreme Zionists to smear leftists, to attack academics who may be critical of Israel or the current US imperial proclivities, and to hurl ritual abuse against "jihadists" in reality, a thinly-veiled racist attack on Muslims or Arab people. Denigrating and insulting labels are flung around in FP, and its writers often brand anyone near the left with such labels as "racist", "jihadist", "anti-semite", etc. The American progressive broadcaster Al Franken’s photo appears with a "racist" label juxtaposed; Rachel Corrie, the 23-year-old ISM volunteer who was killed by the Israeli army, is portrayed as "matron martyr saint for the pro-terrorism Left, the Joan of Arc of Palestinian terrorism". FrontPage also loves to denigrate: Prof. Juan Cole, Prof. Ward Churchill, Prof. Noam Chomsky Simply put, civility and integrity are in short supply at FP.'0 -
That's cute. I simply happen to be on the same side as Amnesty International, the U.N, Human Rights Watch, B'Tselem, Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, Gideon Levy, e.t.c. Though I realize that for Israel apologists like you, and fans of racist bigots like David Horowitz, Amnesty, and the U.N, e.t.c. are extremist, radical organizations, that 'fan the flames of hatred'.JohnnieBeBlue said:You see Byrnzie, unlike you, I believe in intellectual honesty. You can view this as a propaganda war and take one side, or you can admit that there are valid claims on both sides and this is an enormously complex and fragile situation. There is a failure of leadership on both sides. The situation is a mess. It is precisely because of people like you, who exist on both sides of this conflict, why there where never be peace. Just go on continuing to fan the flames of hatred and see where it gets us.
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Next you'll be quoting posts from Facebook.JohnnieBeBlue said:The best and simplest history of the region I've read was recently up on Reddit. It's not perfect, but it's a nice and simple summary for people to appreciate how we got to where we are today. You'll find it's a lot more involved than Byrnzie would like to admit and doesn't just read, "Jews stole land from Arabs and are ethnically cleansing them like Nazis."
Link here : LINK
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Is that why every single human rights organization has accused Israel of war crimes? Is that why Israeli soldiers themselves have testified to deliberately targeting civilians? Is that why on average, Israel has murdered one Palestinian child every three days for the past 13 years?JohnnieBeBlue said:Israel does more to try to prevent civilian deaths than any army in the history of the world. This is well documented.
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Funny, but I can give examples of all of those things on the Palestinian side. First off, there are many many Arabs living in Israel. However, a future Palestinian state would by have to be Judenrein per Abbas. LINKByrnzie said:
Here's the definition of ethnic cleansing:JohnnieBeBlue said:1) I support Israel. I don't believe what is happening is ethnic cleansing. That is a gross oversimplification of a complex situation for the purposes of shock and propaganda.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing
'Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic or religious groups from a given territory with the intent of creating a territory inhabited by people of a homogeneous or pure ethnicity, religion, culture, and history. The forces applied may be various forms of forced migration (deportation, population transfer), as well as mass murder, and intimidation.
Ethnic cleansing is usually accompanied with the efforts to remove physical and cultural evidence of the targeted group in the territory through the destruction of homes, social centers, farms, and infrastructure, and by the desecration of monuments, cemeteries, and places of worship.'
“In a final resolution, we would not see the presence of a single Israeli – civilian or soldier – on our lands,” Abbas told the Egyptian press.
How about removing physical and cultural evidence of the targeted group? Yeah, the Palestinians are doing that too. LINK 1 LINK 2
Do you even read or think about the nonsense you are writing?0 -
By the way, do you think that any warnings for people in the vicinity to leave would not reach the ears of any Hamas fighters in the area? If so, then what purpose does destroying a house, or an apartment block, serve other than as a form of collective punishment, which is a war crime under international law?
And are you going to repeat the same lie that Hamas fighters use civilians as human shields, even though on countless occasions, and after numerous investigations, no evidence has arisen to support this claim?
Why don't you simply admit that you don't give a fuck about Palestinians, and that you regard their lives as worthless?0 -
Yeah, I wouldn't be too proud of counting those people as your friends either. Although I realize for Palestinian apologists like you, everyone who opposes your view is a racist bigot.Byrnzie said:
That's cute. I simply happen to be on the same side as Amnesty International, the U.N, Human Rights Watch, B'Tselem, Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, Gideon Levy, e.t.c. Though I realize that for Israel apologists like you, and fans of racist bigots like David Horowitz, Amnesty, and the U.N, e.t.c. are extremist, radical organizations, that 'fan the flames of hatred'.JohnnieBeBlue said:You see Byrnzie, unlike you, I believe in intellectual honesty. You can view this as a propaganda war and take one side, or you can admit that there are valid claims on both sides and this is an enormously complex and fragile situation. There is a failure of leadership on both sides. The situation is a mess. It is precisely because of people like you, who exist on both sides of this conflict, why there where never be peace. Just go on continuing to fan the flames of hatred and see where it gets us.
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That's not evidence. That's something that somebody may, or may not have, said.JohnnieBeBlue said:Funny, but I can give examples of all of those things on the Palestinian side. First off, there are many many Arabs living in Israel. However, a future Palestinian state would by have to be Judenrein per Abbas. LINK
“In a final resolution, we would not see the presence of a single Israeli – civilian or soldier – on our lands,” Abbas told the Egyptian press.
Either way, I've also read Abbas stating that Israeli's will be free to live within the borders of a future Palestinian state.
Show me some evidence of Israeli's being ethnically cleansed. You can't, because they haven't.
Meanwhile...
U.N. rights investigator accuses Israel of 'ethnic cleansing'
By Stephanie Nebehay
Fri Mar 21, 2014
(Reuters) - A U.N. human rights investigator accused Israel on Friday of "ethnic cleansing" in pushing Palestinians out of East Jerusalem and cast doubt that the Israeli government could accept a Palestinian state in the current climate.
He spoke against a backdrop of deadlocked peace talks and accelerating Israeli settlement expansion in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem which Palestinians say is dimming their hope of establishing a viable state on contiguous territory.
Israel says Palestinian refusal to recognise it as a Jewish state is the main obstacle. U.S. President Barack Obama this week pressed Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to help break the impasse, saying both sides must take political risks before the April 29 deadline for a framework deal.
Richard Falk, United Nations special rapporteur on human rights in the Palestinian territories, told a news conference that Israeli policies bore "unacceptable characteristics of colonialism, apartheid and ethnic cleansing".
Apologies, but the page you requested could not be found.JohnnieBeBlue said:
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Nah, just people like you, who try and excuse and justify ethnic cleansing, and the murder of Palestinian men, women and children. Say hello to David Horowitz for me.JohnnieBeBlue said:Yeah, I wouldn't be too proud of counting those people as your friends either. Although I realize for Palestinian apologists like you, everyone who opposes your view is a racist bigot.
http://www.alternet.org/story/151738/10_of_america's_most_dangerous_hatemongers?page=0,2
10 of America's Most Dangerous Hatemongers
DAVID HOROWITZ
"I spent 25 years in the American Left, whose agendas are definitely to destroy this country. The American left wanted us to lose the Cold War with the Soviets and it wants us to lose the war on terror. So I don't make any apologies for that."
— On the "Riz Khan" Show, Al Jazeera, Aug. 21, 2008
"Some polls estimate that 10 percent of Muslims support Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda. An al-Jazeera poll put the number at 50 percent. In other words, somewhere between 150 million and 750 million Muslims support a holy war against Christians, Jews, and other Muslims who don't happen to be true believers in the Quran according to bin Laden."
— In the Columbia Spectator, Oct. 15, 2007
"There are 150 Muslim Student Associations on American campuses. The Muslim Student Associations were created by Hamas and funded by Saudi Arabia. … [The associations] are Wahhabi Islamicists, and they basically support our enemies."
— On Fox News' "Neil Cavuto Show," Aug. 15, 2006
Post edited by Byrnzie on0 -
No evidence? I can give you evidence from yesterday! Funny how you have blinders on and can only see one side.Byrnzie said:
And are you going to repeat the same lie that Hamas fighters use civilians as human shields, even though on countless occasions, and after numerous investigations, no evidence has arisen to support this claim?
LINK
Hamas Vows Revenge After Use of Human Shields Goes Awry
The events leading up to the strike offer an insight into the difficulties facing IDF forces in combating Gaza-based terrorism. It also provides a revealing glimpse into the way Hamas and other terrorist groups violate international law through the use of human shields. Israeli leaders have in the past referred to such tactics as a "double war crime": firing missiles at Israeli civilians, while using Palestinian civilians as human shields.
Witnesses said an Israeli drone launched a warning flare prior to the strike, in a bid to allow innocent civilians to evacuate the area. Instead, relatives and neighbors gathered at the house to act as human shields, but shortly afterwards an F-16 fired a missile which leveled the building.
In response, Hamas said "all Israelis" would be potential targets for retaliation. "The Khan Yunis massacre... of children is a horrendous war crime, and all Israelis have now become legitimate targets for the resistance," spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said on Facebook.
Hamas has repeatedly vowed to target Israeli civilians, including in a recent propaganda video aimed at the residents of the southern Israeli city of Beersheva.
Earlier, three terrorists were killed in a separate strike on a car in the Daraj neighborhood in the center of Gaza City, Qudra said.
Hamas's Al-Aqsa TV showed gruesome images of charred body parts being loaded onto ambulance stretchers.
Family members said all of them were Hamas militants, identifying one as Mohammed Shaaban, 32, a senior commander in Hamas's armed wing, the Ezzedine Al-Qassam Brigades. He was also head of the group's naval operations, they said.0 -
The bottom line in this situation is that as long as the occupation continues, Israel has no legal nor moral right whatsoever to military self defense against Palestinians. period.Post edited by Drowned Out on0
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As for the Palestinian leadership allegedly saying that a future Palestinian state would be 'Judenrein' (free of Jews), this is bullshit. Abbas was referring to settlers, not Jews per se.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-yes-to-jews-no-to-settlers-in-our-state/
Hanan Ashrawi, a member of the PLO Executive Committee, told The Times of Israel that Jews and members of all religions would have the right to apply for Palestinian citizenship. But “Palestine” could not accept “ex-territorial Jewish enclaves” where residents maintained their Israeli citizenship status, she said.
...The source in the Israeli Prime Minister’s office said that “just as Israel has an Arab minority, the prime minister doesn’t see why Palestine can’t have a Jewish minority. The Jews living on their side should have a choice whether they want to stay or not.”
...Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has previously stated that no settlers would be allowed to remain in the Palestinian state, and his chief negotiator Saeb Erekat on Sunday repeated that not a single settler would be allowed to stay because, he said, Israeli settlements in the West Bank are illegal under international law.
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Oh, so when you quote articles, they are facts, but when I quote one that doesn't fit your narrative, it's "alleged." Yes, I'm sure the Jews will be welcomed in the future Palestine, just as they were in all of the other friendly Arab nations. Where are your cries of ethnic cleansing when Jews and Christians are driven out of every other middle eastern nation? Close to 1 million Jews were driven from unfriendly Arab nations over the past 50 years.Byrnzie said:
That's not evidence. That's something that somebody may, or may not have, said.
LINK
LINK 2
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Oh, so "settlers" would not be allowed to stay, but "Jews" would be welcomed with open arms. Tell me, who are these Jews that would be welcomed? New immigrants from Tel Aviv or elsewhere? Which Jews exactly would be allowed to live there, and if your answer is "none" then how is this not anything dfifferent than asking for the land to be Judenrein?Byrnzie said:As for the Palestinian leadership allegedly saying that a future Palestinian state would be 'Judenrein' (free of Jews), this is bullshit. Abbas was referring to settlers, not Jews per se.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinians-yes-to-jews-no-to-settlers-in-our-state/
Hanan Ashrawi, a member of the PLO Executive Committee, told The Times of Israel that Jews and members of all religions would have the right to apply for Palestinian citizenship. But “Palestine” could not accept “ex-territorial Jewish enclaves” where residents maintained their Israeli citizenship status, she said.
...The source in the Israeli Prime Minister’s office said that “just as Israel has an Arab minority, the prime minister doesn’t see why Palestine can’t have a Jewish minority. The Jews living on their side should have a choice whether they want to stay or not.”
...Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has previously stated that no settlers would be allowed to remain in the Palestinian state, and his chief negotiator Saeb Erekat on Sunday repeated that not a single settler would be allowed to stay because, he said, Israeli settlements in the West Bank are illegal under international law.0 -
Yes, they have no right to defend themselves. They should allow indiscriminate bombing of civilians. Moron.Drowned Out said:The bottom line in this situation is that as long as the occupation continues, Israel has no legal nor moral right whatsoever to military self defense against Palestinians. period.
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More bullshit. Seems to be a favourite tool of yours, bullshit. Anything to try and excuse and justify Israel's crimes against the Palestinians, and now a cynical attempt to equate the exodus of Arab Jews from Arab countries with the forced expulsion of Palestinians from their lands in 1948.JohnnieBeBlue said:Yes, I'm sure the Jews will be welcomed in the future Palestine, just as they were in all of the other friendly Arab nations. Where are your cries of ethnic cleansing when Jews and Christians are driven out of every other middle eastern nation? Close to 1 million Jews were driven from unfriendly Arab nations over the past 50 years.
LINK
LINK 2
Though here's what Yehuda Shenav, a professor of history at Tel Aviv University has to say on the matter:
"Any reasonable person, Zionist or non-Zionist, must acknowledge that the analogy drawn between Palestinians and Arab Jews is unfounded....Arab Jews arrived to Israel under the initiative of the State of Israel and Jewish organizations. Some arrived of their own free will; others arrived against their will. Some lived comfortably and securely in Arab lands; others suffered from fear and oppression."
The State of Israel in many cases actively precipitated Jewish emigration, sending emissaries to Arab countries in order to persuade Jews to leave. Their methods often involved violence; for example, in Egypt, where the situation of Jews deteriorated significantly in 1954 after a group of local Jews was caught carrying out acts of terrorism and sabotage at the behest of Israel. Israel publicly acknowledged responsibility for this only in 2005. Similarly, Jewish emigration from Iraq accelerated in 1951 after the bombing of a synagogue; this act was blamed at the time on Zionist agents. A claim lent credibility by the recent admission by a former member of the Iraqi Zionist underground that members of his group did employ such tactics.
As for the Arab Jews themselves, many have voiced their opposition to this new cynical campaign by the Netanyahu government:
"The property of the Jews of the Middle East is not a matter for the State of Israel," says Yehouda Shenhav, an associate professor of sociology and anthropology at Tel Aviv University, himself of Iraqi descent. "They are manipulating me for an ulterior motive."
As Jonathan Cook points out: "Many, if not most, Arab Jews left their homelands voluntarily, unlike Palestinians, to begin a new life in Israel. Even where tensions forced Jews to flee, such as in Iraq, it is hard to know who was always behind the ethnic strife. There is strong evidence that Israel’s Mossad spy agency waged false-flag operations in Arab states to fuel the fear and hostility needed to drive Arab Jews towards Israel."
Post edited by Byrnzie on0 -
Why the Self-Defense Doctrine Doesn’t Legitimize Israel’s Assault on Gaza
by JAMES MARC LEAS
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/12/27/why-the-self-defense-doctrine-doesnt-legitimize-israels-assault-on-gaza/
Supporting all aspects of the Israeli assault on Gaza in November, President Obama gave Israeli forces a green light, saying “We are fully supportive of Israel’s right to defend itself.” Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu defended Israel’s targeting of civilian areas in Gaza saying “it’s our right to defend our people.”
Obama and Netenyahu disregarded law and facts:
* In 2004, the International Court of Justice rejected Israeli Government arguments and found that as an occupying power, Israel’s right to defend itself under a UN Charter provision does not apply against those living under its rule.
* The Court found that the right, and indeed the obligation, to protect citizens does not trump Israeli obligation to conform to international law when doing so.
* Israeli military assaults on Gaza, including “Operation Pillar of Defense,” caused a vast increase in rocket fire from Gaza, so the assaults endangered rather than defended Israeli citizens.
* Israeli political and military leaders have long known how to quickly halt or substantially dial down rocket fire that involves no bombs, no killing, and no destruction: ceasefire agreements. However, Israeli forces have repeatedly ended effective ceasefire agreements with aerial extrajudicial executions of Palestinians in Gaza that dialed up rocket fire.
Israeli Government argues self-defense
In its 2004 written advisory opinion regarding the wall that Israeli forces built across Palestinian occupied territory, the International Court of Justice included the Israeli government’s self-defense arguments:
* According to Israel “the construction of the Barrier is consistent with Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, its inherent right to self-defense and Security Council resolutions 1368 (2001) and 1373 (2001).”
* More specifically, Israel’s Permanent Representative to the United Nations asserted in the General Assembly on 20 October 2003 that “the fence is a measure wholly consistent with the right of States to self-defense enshrined in Article 51 of the Charter”; the Security Council resolutions referred to, he continued, “have clearly recognized the right of States to use force in self-defense against terrorist attacks,” and therefore surely recognize the right to use nonforcible measures to that end (A/ES10/PV.21, p. 6).
The Israeli government thus argued that self-defense under Article 51 of the UN Charter applies and that the wall should be considered as legitimate under this Charter self-defense provision– especially because the wall is a passive means of self-defense rather than a forcible measure. The Israeli government further implied that the two Security Council resolutions allow Israel’s right of self-defense against terrorism to trump the provision of international humanitarian law prohibiting Israel, as occupying power, to encroach on Palestinian territory.
International Court of Justice rejects Israeli self-defense
Rejecting the Israeli government arguments, the Court first found that the Article 51 right to self-defense “has no relevance” when the attacks on Israel, the occupying power, are from people living under Israeli rule rather than coming from a foreign state. The Court found:
Article 51 of the Charter thus recognizes the existence of an inherent right of self-defense in the case of armed attack by one State against another State. However, Israel does not claim that the attacks against it are imputable to a foreign State. The Court also notes that Israel exercises control in the Occupied Palestinian Territory and that, as Israel itself states, the threat which it regards as justifying the construction of the wall originates within, and not outside, that territory.
. . Consequently, the Court concludes that Article 51 of the Charter has no relevance in this case.
The Court thus concluded that self-defense under Article 51 does not apply to an occupying power with respect to those living under occupation. Although Israel withdrew its illegal settlers from Gaza in 2005, Israel still controls all aspects of life in Gaza, including air, land and sea borders, and therefore Israel continues to be regarded as an occupying power over Gaza.
The decision that an occupying power cannot invoke Article 51 self-defense is complementary to provisions of the UN Charter, UN General Assembly Resolution 2625, and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights under which self-determination is a principle of international law.
More specifically, the decision is complementary to UN General Assembly Resolution 2649, adopted November 30, 1970, that “affirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples under colonial and alien domination recognized as being entitled to the right of self-determination to restore to themselves that right by any means at their disposal.” Resolution 2649 also “considers that the acquisition and retention of territory in contravention of the right of the people of that territory to self-determination is inadmissible and a gross violation of the Charter;” and “condemns those Governments that deny the right to self-determination of peoples recognized as being entitled to it, especially of the peoples of southern Africa and Palestine.”
The rejection of Israel’s Article 51 argument leaves Israeli forces and their US sponsors at risk of prosecution for the crime of aggression, the subject of another article.
Court Rejects Israeli argument that self-defense trumps international law
The Court also concluded that construction of the wall on occupied Palestinian land was not in conformance with applicable international law because the route of the wall across Palestinian territory was illegal. “The Court considers that Israel cannot rely on a right of self-defense or on a state of necessity in order to preclude the wrongfulness of the construction of the wall.” Thus, the Court established that defending its citizens does not relieve Israeli government officials of their responsibility to observe international law.
International law for an occupying power includes the responsibility to protect civilians living under occupation and their property and to provide for the humanitarian needs of the population living under the occupation. International humanitarian law requires all combatants to protect civilians and civilian property during any armed conflict.
continued below...
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continued:
Court recognizes Israeli right to protect citizens if method conforms to international law
The Court recognized that “Israel has to face numerous indiscriminate and deadly acts of violence against its civilian population. It has the right, and indeed the duty, to respond in order to protect the life of its citizens. The measures taken are bound nonetheless to remain in conformity with applicable international law.”
Israeli argument before the court can be applied in reverse
The argument the Israeli permanent representative introduced is remarkable in that it can be applied in reverse in view of the Court’s decision: the Court rejected an occupying power’s right to use a non-forcible measure–the fence–in self-defense because the fence illegally encroached on occupied territory. Therefore, the Court would surely reject forcible measures that violate the law.
During Israel’s “Operation Cast Lead” from December 27, 2008 to January 18, 2009, Israeli military and political leaders failed to take heed of the decision of the International Court, as described in a report issued by a delegation from the National Lawyers Guild, and reports issued by Human Rights Watch, the Palestine Center for Human rights, Amnesty International, the UN Human Rights Council–“the Goldstone Report,” Defence for Children International (Palestine Section), Al Mezan Centre for Human Rights, and the League of Arab States, all available at Universal Jurisdiction. Instead, Israeli political and military leaders–and their US sponsors–wrongfully continued to rely on Israel’s supposed right to protect its own citizens as justifying measures, such as intentionally attacking civilians and civilian property, that violate international law.
Israel’s “Pillar of Defense” November 14-21 failed to heed both the decision of the Court and the law as described in those reports, as described in articles on Counterpunch, “Wrecking Gaza: Civilian Infrastructure Targeted by Israeli Military” and “Shattered Lives in Gaza: How the IDF Targeted Civilians.”
Reports by Human Rights Watch also describe Israeli violations during Operation Pillar of Defense, including “Gaza: Unlawful Israeli Attacks on Palestinian Media” and “Gaza: Israeli Airstrike on Home Unlawful.” An HRW report on November 15 warned both sides, “Gaza: Avoid Harm to Civilians.”
A December 24 report by Human Rights Watch, “Gaza: Palestinian Rockets Unlawfully Targeted Israeli Civilians” sharply criticizes Palestinian resistance groups that fired rockets at Israeli population centers:
Under international humanitarian law, or the laws of war, civilians and civilian structures may not be subject to deliberate attacks or attacks that do not discriminate between civilians and military targets. Anyone who commits serious laws-of-war violations intentionally or recklessly is responsible for war crimes. . .
The November 14 to 21 hostilities between Israel and Hamas and armed groups in Gaza involved unlawful attacks on civilians by both sides.
As will be further described in a forthcoming article, data on the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs web site, on the allied Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center (ITIC) web site, and on the Palestine Center for Human Rights web site shows that Israeli forces have levers of control over rocket fire from Gaza. Data on the web sites shows that Israeli extra-judicial executions in Gaza dialed up rocket attacks on Israel to extremely high levels. The data also shows that Israeli government and military leaders dialed down rocket attacks to zero, or very close to zero, by using a readily available non-violent technique: a cease fire agreement.
Israeli political and military leaders who set the policy, those carrying out the attacks, and US government and corporate sponsors who provided the weapons and political backing are all liable for prosecution for war crimes because of their unlawful attacks on civilians and civilian property. The decision of the International Court of Justice on the wall indicates that liability for war crimes would not be precluded even if Israeli forces could prove they were acting to defend Israeli citizens. Similarly for the crime of aggression: particularly when Israeli forces violated effective ceasefires and initiated the military conflicts with their extra-judicial executions in Gaza. Claims that Israeli forces acted to protect their own citizens will have “no relevance” under Article 51.
Investigation and prosecution
With its upgrade in status to non-member state at the UN on November 29, Palestine can now bring its case against Israeli and US political and military leaders to the International Criminal Court (ICC) at the Hague. The International Criminal Court has jurisdiction to investigate and prosecute those responsible for genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes, and the crime of aggression. If the prosecutor of the ICC refuses the request to investigate, the Palestinian Authority can bring a proposal to the UN General Assembly to establish an International Criminal Tribunal for Israel as a ‘subsidiary organ,’ as provided under U.N. Charter Article 22 to conduct the investigation and prosecution.
The Palestinian Authority has been under intense pressure not to bring the case. Or to use the possibility of bringing a case at the ICC as a bargaining chip for other objectives, such as an agreement to halt illegal Israeli settlement building. However, pressure on Palestine not to bring a case and Palestine holding the possibility of criminal prosecution as a bargaining chip both threaten foundational principles of justice: respect for the rule of law, equal justice under law, and judicial independence. Rather pressure and bargaining are consistent with corruption and a culture of impunity for wrongdoers with powerful friends.
A worldwide campaign for justice is needed. The system of immunity and impunity enjoyed by Israeli political and military leaders and by their US government sponsors must end now. Without accountability for violations of international law, the law will become mere recommendation, the violations will be repeated, hundreds more Palestinians will be killed and wounded, more of their homes will be destroyed, rocket fire will be dialed up, and we will hear again about “Israel’s right to defend itself” while Israeli forces cynically take actions that put Israeli citizens more at risk for political goals. Only if those responsible are brought to justice can we expect that military and political leaders in Israel and the US would be inclined to think seriously before again initiating aggression while pleading self-defense. Public pressure is needed to ensure that the criminal cases are brought at the ICC–or, if the ICC refuses, to an Article 22 Tribunal–and to counter the vast US political influence to undermine an independent, impartial, and unbiased investigation and prosecution.0 -
Did you read the piece I posted? It's not difficult to understand.JohnnieBeBlue said:
Oh, so "settlers" would not be allowed to stay, but "Jews" would be welcomed with open arms. Tell me, who are these Jews that would be welcomed? New immigrants from Tel Aviv or elsewhere? Which Jews exactly would be allowed to live there, and if your answer is "none" then how is this not anything dfifferent than asking for the land to be Judenrein?
'Jews and members of all religions would have the right to apply for Palestinian citizenship. But “Palestine” could not accept “ex-territorial Jewish enclaves” where residents maintained their Israeli citizenship status'.
Basically, I imagine that extremist racist ex-settlers would be refused citizenship. Not too difficult to comprehend why.
Sorry to put a dent in your racist fantasy. You must have been frothing at the mouth with excitement when you thought that your mis-quoted piece of self-serving bullshit may have passed scrutiny.
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Gotta get back to work. Keep on spouting your hate and misinformation. Have you ever been to Israel or Gaza? Probably not. I have. Many times. it's very different than what you describe. I openly admit problems on both sides, but you all seem to think this is just a one sided issue. It's not. The only road to peace is mutual understanding and an end to violence on both sides. And that's where I'll leave it. Carry on.0
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