Malaysia Airlines loses contact with passenger jet
Comments
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So do you believe they will never find a wreckage? I believe they will never find a wreckage which will inturn only continue this extraordinary mystery. Also, from the very beginning this plane event has been extremely strange and unusual that just deepens this puzzle.DriftingByTheStorm said:
Why does everyone here seem he'll bent on completely and utterly disregarding the known facts that someone deliberately disengaged all of the comm systems and manually reconfigured the flight path of this plane to turn around at the exact moment it changed airspace. How does such a deliberate act follow to the non sequitur of "at the bottom of the ocean".JimmyV said:The likeliest solution has always been that this plane is at the bottom of the ocean. The ocean is both vast and deep, so the lack of wreckage, to me, has never seemed that strange. Not given the likely crash zone. Had this plane been flying over Long Island Sound when it went down it would be a different story.
My heart breaks for both the victims and their families. To have the search drag on this long, with no definitive answers, must be beyond tortuous. I would imagine many of them are desperate for answers and not thinking clearly. I would give them all much leeway to voice any and all of their concerns, but I would also take most of those claims with a grain of salt.
What makes that the likeliest solution? I would really like for just one person who is toting the MSM version of events to come forward and explain how the stated facts regarding these oddities jive with the purported "likeliest solution" of a simple crash.
The likeliest explanation based on the evidence seems to be that someone or some persons had a different PLAN for this plane other than going to Bejing. The only explanation for a PLANNED deviation that puts it at the bottom of the ocean as the "likeliest solution" is a suicide, and nothing about the know sequence of events jives with a simple suicide. If you want to kill yourself as the pilot of a plane you simply nose dive the motherfucker and be done with it. You don't methodically plan and execute a disappearance from radar and travel another 5 to 7 hours simply to belly flop a 777.
SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES THE OFFICIAL STORY, PLEASE HAVE THE COURAGE TO COME FORWARD AND MAKE A CASE FOR YOURSELF, because as it stands you have seemingly very little of the known sequence of events on your side.
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The plane being at the bottom of the ocean is the most likely solution because the plane was flying over water, was tracked by radar heading to even deeper water, and has since disappeared. What led to that fate we still do not know, so I am unsure what official story you are going on about. Everything at this point is a hypothesis.DriftingByTheStorm said:
Why does everyone here seem he'll bent on completely and utterly disregarding the known facts that someone deliberately disengaged all of the comm systems and manually reconfigured the flight path of this plane to turn around at the exact moment it changed airspace. How does such a deliberate act follow to the non sequitur of "at the bottom of the ocean".JimmyV said:The likeliest solution has always been that this plane is at the bottom of the ocean. The ocean is both vast and deep, so the lack of wreckage, to me, has never seemed that strange. Not given the likely crash zone. Had this plane been flying over Long Island Sound when it went down it would be a different story.
My heart breaks for both the victims and their families. To have the search drag on this long, with no definitive answers, must be beyond tortuous. I would imagine many of them are desperate for answers and not thinking clearly. I would give them all much leeway to voice any and all of their concerns, but I would also take most of those claims with a grain of salt.
What makes that the likeliest solution? I would really like for just one person who is toting the MSM version of events to come forward and explain how the stated facts regarding these oddities jive with the purported "likeliest solution" of a simple crash.
The likeliest explanation based on the evidence seems to be that someone or some persons had a different PLAN for this plane other than going to Bejing. The only explanation for a PLANNED deviation that puts it at the bottom of the ocean as the "likeliest solution" is a suicide, and nothing about the know sequence of events jives with a simple suicide. If you want to kill yourself as the pilot of a plane you simply nose dive the motherfucker and be done with it. You don't methodically plan and execute a disappearance from radar and travel another 5 to 7 hours simply to belly flop a 777.
SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES THE OFFICIAL STORY, PLEASE HAVE THE COURAGE TO COME FORWARD AND MAKE A CASE FOR YOURSELF, because as it stands you have seemingly very little of the known sequence of events on your side.
I do believe some wreckage will eventually turn up, washed on shore somewhere. I don't think the "mystery" will ever go away though.___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
Some of these facts you are referring to are actually suggestions that are made by pieces of the story.DriftingByTheStorm said:
Why does everyone here seem he'll bent on completely and utterly disregarding the known facts that someone deliberately disengaged all of the comm systems and manually reconfigured the flight path of this plane to turn around at the exact moment it changed airspace. How does such a deliberate act follow to the non sequitur of "at the bottom of the ocean".JimmyV said:The likeliest solution has always been that this plane is at the bottom of the ocean. The ocean is both vast and deep, so the lack of wreckage, to me, has never seemed that strange. Not given the likely crash zone. Had this plane been flying over Long Island Sound when it went down it would be a different story.
My heart breaks for both the victims and their families. To have the search drag on this long, with no definitive answers, must be beyond tortuous. I would imagine many of them are desperate for answers and not thinking clearly. I would give them all much leeway to voice any and all of their concerns, but I would also take most of those claims with a grain of salt.
What makes that the likeliest solution? I would really like for just one person who is toting the MSM version of events to come forward and explain how the stated facts regarding these oddities jive with the purported "likeliest solution" of a simple crash.
The likeliest explanation based on the evidence seems to be that someone or some persons had a different PLAN for this plane other than going to Bejing. The only explanation for a PLANNED deviation that puts it at the bottom of the ocean as the "likeliest solution" is a suicide, and nothing about the know sequence of events jives with a simple suicide. If you want to kill yourself as the pilot of a plane you simply nose dive the motherfucker and be done with it. You don't methodically plan and execute a disappearance from radar and travel another 5 to 7 hours simply to belly flop a 777.
SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES THE OFFICIAL STORY, PLEASE HAVE THE COURAGE TO COME FORWARD AND MAKE A CASE FOR YOURSELF, because as it stands you have seemingly very little of the known sequence of events on your side.0 -
Hey Drifting, I am confused with what exactly you want me to say. As far as I know there is no official story. The powers that be as far as I can see, and correct me if I'm wrong, don't know what has happened yet. No one here is saying they know anything for sure. That's my point.DriftingByTheStorm said:
Why does everyone here seem he'll bent on completely and utterly disregarding the known facts that someone deliberately disengaged all of the comm systems and manually reconfigured the flight path of this plane to turn around at the exact moment it changed airspace. How does such a deliberate act follow to the non sequitur of "at the bottom of the ocean".JimmyV said:The likeliest solution has always been that this plane is at the bottom of the ocean. The ocean is both vast and deep, so the lack of wreckage, to me, has never seemed that strange. Not given the likely crash zone. Had this plane been flying over Long Island Sound when it went down it would be a different story.
My heart breaks for both the victims and their families. To have the search drag on this long, with no definitive answers, must be beyond tortuous. I would imagine many of them are desperate for answers and not thinking clearly. I would give them all much leeway to voice any and all of their concerns, but I would also take most of those claims with a grain of salt.
What makes that the likeliest solution? I would really like for just one person who is toting the MSM version of events to come forward and explain how the stated facts regarding these oddities jive with the purported "likeliest solution" of a simple crash.
The likeliest explanation based on the evidence seems to be that someone or some persons had a different PLAN for this plane other than going to Bejing. The only explanation for a PLANNED deviation that puts it at the bottom of the ocean as the "likeliest solution" is a suicide, and nothing about the know sequence of events jives with a simple suicide. If you want to kill yourself as the pilot of a plane you simply nose dive the motherfucker and be done with it. You don't methodically plan and execute a disappearance from radar and travel another 5 to 7 hours simply to belly flop a 777.
SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES THE OFFICIAL STORY, PLEASE HAVE THE COURAGE TO COME FORWARD AND MAKE A CASE FOR YOURSELF, because as it stands you have seemingly very little of the known sequence of events on your side.
The evidence they do have so far ( satellite, radar and the possibility of pings from the black boxes where they are looking) points in all likelihood that the plane is in the ocean somewhere. Why it's there? I have no idea, I have never speculated on that. We won't know until the black boxes are recovered. Similar to the situation in the Air France disaster.
I feel like you and others are taking some evidence as gospel and throwing other evidence by the wayside. Why is that? Is it to fit your narrative as to what you think happened to the plane?
I don't see how we can take anything from the families as truth given their states of mind. I would want to hang on to the hope that they are alive as long as I could too. I wouldn't trust the government of Malaysia either since they have bungled so much up so far. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are hiding something.....it is more likely that they are incompetent. I think that validating theories is unfair to the families because it gives them hope where there is no evidence that there should be. They should be grieving....and I hope they can find the plane so they can start that process.
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Dignin, I really appreciate you being intellectually honest enough to actually respond to the question asked. What I wanted was for someone who believes that the plane had crashed 5-7 hours off course in the wrong direction to explain to me why they think that is a more logical conclusion than that the plane was hijacked by someone or someone's and remains at large. I get that actual hard evidence is slim, but any attempt at rationalizing a non-conspiratorial approach to this would be much appreciated.
As far as your charge that those of us looking to a more sinister are taking "some evidence as gospel" and throwing "other evidence by the wayside", this leaves me with some confusion. The only "evidence" being omitted in my allegations of criminal intent by someone or someones is the current location of the plane. That evidence is really non-evidence. There is factually ZERO public evidence that the plane crashed in the location where teams are currently searching. The location is based on allegations presented to the public by Inmarsat regarding the last supposed arc of the final Comsat pings. The actual data has not been released in any form whatsoever, and the reasons given for choosing a plane location based on the particular portion of the alleged arc that Inmarsat has alleged has not been provided either.
In short, not only are the ping arcs themselves unverifiable by the public, but the selective locating of the plane at this particular spot on the arc is also unverifiable by the public, and the authorities have not eve provided the public with any reasoning for why this portion of the arc was chosen as the search location. We are just merely to believe on the good faith of the authorities themselves.
I will give you that box "pings" have been "detected" but their acquisition seems to be shaky at best. So let's say that the conspiratorial view requires the throwing by the wayside of the alleged box pings.
On the other hand,
The transponder is by all accounts assumed to have been manually disabled.
ACARS is likewise generally assumed to have been manually disabled, and not easily.
The Navigation way points were admitted to have been manually reprogrammed, with specific skill required.
The pilot casually signs out if Malaysian airspace.
The flight is factually known to have disappeared from radar within 2 minutes of trading airspace (possibly the single most damning piece of evidence pointing to malicious intent) and never signs in with Vietnam, despite their attempts to contact it.
The flight is then by most sources acknowledged to have been tracked flying back over the northern tip of Malaysia headed towards the straights of malaca by Malaysian military primary radar. Granted this radar detection came with no transponder data (what you would expect from mh370 at this point) but it's spotting is generally acknowledged to fit almost exactly with the other known facts. All MSM maps of the plane use this radar spotting as part of the information in their flight path drawings.
Slightly more speculatively, even Thailand may have tracked an unidentified plane headed that direction.
Rolls Royce admitted receiving engine ping data for another five hours. Media reported this and then tried to downplay and backtrack the statements.
Authorities generally acknowledge receiving ACARS handshake pings for approximately 7 hours after the flight disappeared.
Authorities acknowledge that the waypoint navigation points indicate someone deliberately attempting to skirt radar detection.
And that is about where what we know, or most probably assume to know ends.
Read those generally assumed facts over and tell me they are indicative of a suicidal pilot or an equipment malfunction.
They look damn sure like a deliberate effort to deviate and obfuscate. It requires dismissing nothing except for what was stated up top, which, IMHO, is more or less nothing, anyhow.
And I think Malaysia simply got the shit end of an intelligence stick. In other words they were getting dicked around by agencies and governments with significantly more advanced technology who may or may not have been playing straight with them (and for a whole host of possible reasons).Post edited by DriftingByTheStorm onIf I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?0 -
DriftingByTheStorm said:
Dignin, I really appreciate you being intellectually honest enough to actually respond to the question asked. What I wanted was for someone who believes that the plane had crashed 5-7 hours off course in the wrong direction to explain to me why they think that is a more logical conclusion than that the plane was hijacked by someone or someone's and remains at large. I get that actual hard evidence is slim, but any attempt at rationalizing a non-conspiratorial approach to this would be much appreciated.
As far as your charge that those of us looking to a more sinister are taking "some evidence as gospel" and throwing "other evidence by the wayside", this leaves me with some confusion. The only "evidence" being omitted in my allegations of criminal intent by someone or someones is the current location of the plane. That evidence is really non-evidence. There is factually ZERO public evidence that the plane crashed in the location where teams are currently searching. The location is based on allegations presented to the public by Inmarsat regarding the last supposed arc of the final Comsat pings. The actual data has not been released in any form whatsoever, and the reasons given for choosing a plane location based on the particular portion of the alleged arc that Inmarsat has alleged has not been provided either.
In short, not only are the ping arcs themselves unverifiable by the public, but the selective locating of the plane at this particular spot on the arc is also unverifiable by the public, and the authorities have not eve provided the public with any reasoning for why this portion of the arc was chosen as the search location. We are just merely to believe on the good faith of the authorities themselves.
I will give you that box "pings" have been "detected" but their acquisition seems to be shaky at best. So let's say that the conspiratorial view requires the throwing by the wayside of the alleged box pings.
On the other hand,
The transponder is by all accounts assumed to have been manually disabled.
ACARS is likewise generally assumed to have been manually disabled, and not easily.
The Navigation way points were admitted to have been manually reprogrammed, with specific skill required.
The pilot casually signs out if Malaysian airspace.
The flight is factually known to have disappeared from radar within 2 minutes of trading airspace (possibly the single most damning piece of evidence pointing to malicious intent) and never signs in with Vietnam, despite their attempts to contact it.
The flight is then by most sources acknowledged to have been tracked flying back over the northern tip of Malaysia headed towards the straights of malaca by Malaysian military primary radar. Granted this radar detection came with no transponder data (what you would expect from mh370 at this point) but it's spotting is generally acknowledged to fit almost exactly with the other known facts. All MSM maps of the plane use this radar spotting as part of the information in their flight path drawings.
Slightly more speculatively, even Thailand may have tracked an unidentified plane headed that direction.
Rolls Royce admitted receiving engine ping data for another five hours. Media reported this and then tried to downplay and backtrack the statements.
Authorities generally acknowledge receiving ACARS handshake pings for approximately 7 hours after the flight disappeared.
Authorities acknowledge that the waypoint navigation points indicate someone deliberately attempting to skirt radar detection.
And that is about where what we know, or most probably assume to know ends.
Read those generally assumed facts over and tell me they are indicative of a suicidal pilot or an equipment malfunction.
They look damn sure like a deliberate effort to deviate and obfuscate. It requires dismissing nothing except for what was stated up top, which, IMHO, is more or less nothing, anyhow.
And I think Malaysia simply got the shit end of an intelligence stick. In other words they were getting dicked around by agencies and governments with significantly more advanced technology who may or may not have been playing straight with them (and for a whole host of possible reasons).
Thanks for the well thought out response Drifting. I don't disagree with what you have stated as the facts as we know them to be. It's where we have to wonder about possible intentions that we part ways I guess. Maybe the pilot was suicidal, maybe he had other intentions and things went wrong, or maybe they went right.....there are a whole lot of maybes. I'm just not willing to guess and make predictions while the mystery is still being resolved. We are only a little over a month into this.
I have always admitted the whole thing is strange. Shit doesn't add up right now, but that's always the case when we are still trying to figure shit out. We don't have the whole picture yet. Lots of things don't make sense in this world when we don't have all the info.
If they haven't found the wreckage in say.....a year or so, well, I'm more on board with all kinds of theories. I just think it's too soon to speculate.
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*pingAnother habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self0 -
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missing-jet/mh370-black-box-rumors-unfounded-search-leader-n77491
An Australian search official dismissed reports Friday that the location of the data-recording black boxes on missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 had been found.
Wow. I have to say I'm fucking shocked. B-)
"On the information I have available to me, there has been no major breakthrough in the search for MH370," the search leader, retired Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston, said in a statement as rumors swirled about the jet, which disappeared March 8 with 239 people on their way from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?0 -
I'm not shocked. The search area is huge and the water is deep.
The strangeness of this disappearance is that we have never been through it before and that we don't at all know what caused it. When you factor in where it likely went down, the fact that the plane has not been found does not seem all that strange. The why and the how are the strange parts..___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?0 -
They're still confident the other 4 signals are related to an aircraft flight recorder, just not the one discovered yesterday:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26984162
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another thing tho is that if the plane did land at D-G ... the only way we will find out is if someone leaks it ...
they seem confident that they have found the black box now ... we shall see ...0 -
Be Excellent To Each OtherParty On, Dudes!0
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lol.Jason P said:
requesting permission to buzz the tower, sir.
doh. NM. got mixed up. This is red october, not top gun.
lol.
she's gone silent, sir.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?0 -
I think the real question is why in the fuck the pinger on black boxes doesn't stay on longer. :-??With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0
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obviously this plane's disappearance is not normal ... but i think it also goes to show that something like this was never foreseeable ... most planes that go down are found well within the 30 day time frame ... when you factor in all the resources, technology and stuff that has been used to try and find this plane ... you gotta believe that if it indeed crashed - the pilots figured out the absolutely most perfect place to crash it so that it would be hard to find; that they by chance put it in a place that has been difficult to find or that maybe it hasn't crashed ...PJ_Soul said:I think the real question is why in the fuck the pinger on black boxes doesn't stay on longer. :-??
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I personally don't think that where it crashed was done deliberately so that it would specifically hard to find.polaris_x said:
obviously this plane's disappearance is not normal ... but i think it also goes to show that something like this was never foreseeable ... most planes that go down are found well within the 30 day time frame ... when you factor in all the resources, technology and stuff that has been used to try and find this plane ... you gotta believe that if it indeed crashed - the pilots figured out the absolutely most perfect place to crash it so that it would be hard to find; that they by chance put it in a place that has been difficult to find or that maybe it hasn't crashed ...PJ_Soul said:I think the real question is why in the fuck the pinger on black boxes doesn't stay on longer. :-??
My theory is: Something crazy happened, like an insane hijacker(s) forced the pilots to change direction, things got fucked up somehow (or the hijacker(s) were simply nuts or demented, or the pilot went completely nuts), and the plane was either crashed deliberately by the pilots or ran out of fuel, and it went down in the Indian Ocean.
No, of course it's not normal to not know about where a plane went down. But I would have thought that since the possibility of a plane going down in the deepest parts of the ocean would be reason enough to make a black box pinger last for months, not weeks. Even if they do know about where a plane goes down, the black box could be anywhere in a huge area of debris either in water or on lond, especially if the plane explodes at 35.000 or something, or it ends up in the ocean in storm conditions with a strong current. I can think of all kinds of reasons why it would take a long time to find a black box after an air disaster. I just would have thought that they'd have the foresight to make the damn battery last longer even if they never thought they'd lose contact with a plane hours before it disappeared.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
you have to factor in these facts ...PJ_Soul said:
I personally don't think that where it crashed was done deliberately so that it would specifically hard to find.polaris_x said:
obviously this plane's disappearance is not normal ... but i think it also goes to show that something like this was never foreseeable ... most planes that go down are found well within the 30 day time frame ... when you factor in all the resources, technology and stuff that has been used to try and find this plane ... you gotta believe that if it indeed crashed - the pilots figured out the absolutely most perfect place to crash it so that it would be hard to find; that they by chance put it in a place that has been difficult to find or that maybe it hasn't crashed ...PJ_Soul said:I think the real question is why in the fuck the pinger on black boxes doesn't stay on longer. :-??
My theory is: Something crazy happened, like an insane hijacker(s) forced the pilots to change direction, things got fucked up somehow (or the hijacker(s) were simply nuts or demented, or the pilot went completely nuts), and the plane was either crashed deliberately by the pilots or ran out of fuel, and it went down in the Indian Ocean.
No, of course it's not normal to not know about where a plane went down. But I would have thought that since the possibility of a plane going down in the deepest parts of the ocean would be reason enough to make a black box pinger last for months, not weeks. Even if they do know about where a plane goes down, the black box could be anywhere in a huge area of debris either in water or on lond, especially if the plane explodes at 35.000 or something, or it ends up in the ocean in storm conditions with a strong current. I can think of all kinds of reasons why it would take a long time to find a black box after an air disaster. I just would have thought that they'd have the foresight to make the damn battery last longer even if they never thought they'd lose contact with a plane hours before it disappeared.
* compare the search areas that have been targeted ... from the initial spot to where they are looking now and where they have looked before ... it's crazy ...
* the reason is because the communications devices were all turned off deliberately ...
* the pilots actively worked to avoid radar
this sort of stuff is unprecedented in terms of commercial planes ... if you take all the known possible occurrences of a plane - the likelihood of not finding any debris and thus the black box is not very high at all ... so, the makers are obviously going to look to extend the battery life now but up until now ... the points above were never considered to be part of the equation ...0 -
I'm not even thinking about this particular crash though. It doesn't make sense to me that they didn't do it before, for the reasons I already mentioned. I can think of plenty of situations where the pinger might have to last a long time.... Which means that the people coming up with this stuff don't have as much foresight as they really, really should. Seriously, there had to be a conversation at some point about the battery life on it. And the conversation must have been something like:polaris_x said:
you have to factor in these facts ...PJ_Soul said:
I personally don't think that where it crashed was done deliberately so that it would specifically hard to find.polaris_x said:
obviously this plane's disappearance is not normal ... but i think it also goes to show that something like this was never foreseeable ... most planes that go down are found well within the 30 day time frame ... when you factor in all the resources, technology and stuff that has been used to try and find this plane ... you gotta believe that if it indeed crashed - the pilots figured out the absolutely most perfect place to crash it so that it would be hard to find; that they by chance put it in a place that has been difficult to find or that maybe it hasn't crashed ...PJ_Soul said:I think the real question is why in the fuck the pinger on black boxes doesn't stay on longer. :-??
My theory is: Something crazy happened, like an insane hijacker(s) forced the pilots to change direction, things got fucked up somehow (or the hijacker(s) were simply nuts or demented, or the pilot went completely nuts), and the plane was either crashed deliberately by the pilots or ran out of fuel, and it went down in the Indian Ocean.
No, of course it's not normal to not know about where a plane went down. But I would have thought that since the possibility of a plane going down in the deepest parts of the ocean would be reason enough to make a black box pinger last for months, not weeks. Even if they do know about where a plane goes down, the black box could be anywhere in a huge area of debris either in water or on lond, especially if the plane explodes at 35.000 or something, or it ends up in the ocean in storm conditions with a strong current. I can think of all kinds of reasons why it would take a long time to find a black box after an air disaster. I just would have thought that they'd have the foresight to make the damn battery last longer even if they never thought they'd lose contact with a plane hours before it disappeared.
* compare the search areas that have been targeted ... from the initial spot to where they are looking now and where they have looked before ... it's crazy ...
* the reason is because the communications devices were all turned off deliberately ...
* the pilots actively worked to avoid radar
this sort of stuff is unprecedented in terms of commercial planes ... if you take all the known possible occurrences of a plane - the likelihood of not finding any debris and thus the black box is not very high at all ... so, the makers are obviously going to look to extend the battery life now but up until now ... the points above were never considered to be part of the equation ...
"How long should the battery last?"
"I dunno. We usually find the black box fast, soooo... how about 3 - 6 weeks?"
"Should we maybe make it last longer just in case there is trouble finding the black box deep in the ocean or in a debris field over treacherous terrain during consistently bad weather, or maybe in case of some kind of weird terrorist hijacking? Really, it will only cost $50 more to make it last for months."
"Naaaaaaahhhhhhh."
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
Up until this crash ... the longest time it took for debris to be found was 10 days ... you could speculate in ways that might be longer but it's simply hasn't happened before and i am guessing that whatever theories you suggest - you're delaying it by another 3-5 days at most ... still puts us in the 15 day range ...
factor in all the new technology now ... it's not unreasonable to have the batter only last 30 days up until this point ...0
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