The Official New York Yankees Thread
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Ellsbury - another great signing. Folks get too hung up on the Monopoly money thrown around it pro sports, especially baseball. And figuring out how much they are paying in year 7 of a contract is silly. All contracts are based on current value and paid out as an annuity (in effect). No club signs a 7 year deal thinking the 7th year will be value for value.
As for the $189M threshhold - I think they aren't waiting for the A-Rod decision, but it's pretty clear he's getting something. Whether it's half year, full year, 50 games, whatever - that's $ off the books. They don't care, and they can afford it, so what the hell.
I think it also puts Cano on notice that he can go play for Seattle for an extra sum that he and his kids will never get to spend, or he can stay and compete for WS and become the main homegrown cog in the Yankees' return to glory.
Also proves they think what I've been saying all along - Gardner is not an everyday player. I know right now he will be, but in an OF with Ells and Sori, who cares who your LF is. Batting 9th and playing LF - Gardner.
EDIT: Forgot about Ichiro in RF. Sori will be DH/LF, so Gardner will not be everyday player (nor will Ichiro) as he shouldn't be anyway.Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.0 -
EdsonNascimento wrote:Ellsbury - another great signing. Folks get too hung up on the Monopoly money thrown around it pro sports, especially baseball. And figuring out how much they are paying in year 7 of a contract is silly. All contracts are based on current value and paid out as an annuity (in effect). No club signs a 7 year deal thinking the 7th year will be value for value.
As for the $189M threshhold - I think they aren't waiting for the A-Rod decision, but it's pretty clear he's getting something. Whether it's half year, full year, 50 games, whatever - that's $ off the books. They don't care, and they can afford it, so what the hell.
I think it also puts Cano on notice that he can go play for Seattle for an extra sum that he and his kids will never get to spend, or he can stay and compete for WS and become the main homegrown cog in the Yankees' return to glory.
Also proves they think what I've been saying all along - Gardner is not an everyday player. I know right now he will be, but in an OF with Ells and Sori, who cares who your LF is. Batting 9th and playing LF - Gardner.
EDIT: Forgot about Ichiro in RF. Sori will be DH/LF, so Gardner will not be everyday player (nor will Ichiro) as he shouldn't be anyway.
In 2013 Gardner had more walks and more extra base hits than Jacoby.
Jacoby had an ops of .781 to gardner's .759.
Considering you paid Gardner 2.8 mil last year and now just signed a very similar player to a 153 mil.
Sure another great signing!!!!!380 -
gregkitefan wrote:In 2013 Gardner had more walks and more extra base hits than Jacoby.
Jacoby had an ops of .781 to gardner's .759.
Considering you paid Gardner 2.8 mil last year and now just signed a very similar player to a 153 mil.
Sure another great signing!!!!!
Fun with statistics!!! Ok. Let's go.
.298 BA with .355 OBP vs. .273 and .344
Who cares who has more walks? Totally irrelevant stat when you hit 25 points lower (and BTW that avg is still -slightly - above your career mark vs the other guy being spot on his career mark).
52 vs 24 SB with 4 CS vs 9 CS when the latter's sole calling card is stealing bases
172 Hits to 147 Hits - I'll take the 25 extra hits over the 5 extra Walks (and the 35 extra K's)
And even though they are better for Ells, ignore the stats - anyone who thinks they are equivalent players doesn't really watch baseball.Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.0 -
EdsonNascimento wrote:gregkitefan wrote:In 2013 Gardner had more walks and more extra base hits than Jacoby.
Jacoby had an ops of .781 to gardner's .759.
Considering you paid Gardner 2.8 mil last year and now just signed a very similar player to a 153 mil.
Sure another great signing!!!!!
Fun with statistics!!! Ok. Let's go.
.298 BA with .355 OBP vs. .273 and .344
Who cares who has more walks? Totally irrelevant stat when you hit 25 points lower (and BTW that avg is still -slightly - above your career mark vs the other guy being spot on his career mark).
52 vs 24 SB with 4 CS vs 9 CS when the latter's sole calling card is stealing bases
172 Hits to 147 Hits - I'll take the 25 extra hits over the 5 extra Walks (and the 35 extra K's)
And even though they are better for Ells, ignore the stats - anyone who thinks they are equivalent players doesn't really watch baseball.
I think the only argument here is: is Ellsbury worth $153,000,000 for numbers like that? No need to answer.
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JonnyPistachio wrote:EdsonNascimento wrote:gregkitefan wrote:In 2013 Gardner had more walks and more extra base hits than Jacoby.
Jacoby had an ops of .781 to gardner's .759.
Considering you paid Gardner 2.8 mil last year and now just signed a very similar player to a 153 mil.
Sure another great signing!!!!!
Fun with statistics!!! Ok. Let's go.
.298 BA with .355 OBP vs. .273 and .344
Who cares who has more walks? Totally irrelevant stat when you hit 25 points lower (and BTW that avg is still -slightly - above your career mark vs the other guy being spot on his career mark).
52 vs 24 SB with 4 CS vs 9 CS when the latter's sole calling card is stealing bases
172 Hits to 147 Hits - I'll take the 25 extra hits over the 5 extra Walks (and the 35 extra K's)
And even though they are better for Ells, ignore the stats - anyone who thinks they are equivalent players doesn't really watch baseball.
I think the only argument here is: is Ellsbury worth $153,000,000 for numbers like that? No need to answer.
Salary numbers are silly. In the scheme of the MLB pay scale - yes. You win with elite players. The mediocre (Gardner) are a dime a dozen. You can replace him easily, and yet he would still get $8-$10 million on the open market. I mean is Phil Hughes worth $24 million? Is Scott Kazmir worth $11 mil a year? It's stupid. Jim Johnson $10 million a year? Those guys are throw away guys. So, yes. Ellsbury is worth $17 or $18 mill. He's more than twice the player of those guys.
EDIT: It's "easy" to get to average. It's that last little bit to stuff like a .300 BA (not all that prevalent in MLB), and 50SB and fielding, etc. that you pay a premium for.Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.0 -
EdsonNascimento wrote:gregkitefan wrote:In 2013 Gardner had more walks and more extra base hits than Jacoby.
Jacoby had an ops of .781 to gardner's .759.
Considering you paid Gardner 2.8 mil last year and now just signed a very similar player to a 153 mil.
Sure another great signing!!!!!
Fun with statistics!!! Ok. Let's go.
.298 BA with .355 OBP vs. .273 and .344
Who cares who has more walks? Totally irrelevant stat when you hit 25 points lower (and BTW that avg is still -slightly - above your career mark vs the other guy being spot on his career mark).
52 vs 24 SB with 4 CS vs 9 CS when the latter's sole calling card is stealing bases
172 Hits to 147 Hits - I'll take the 25 extra hits over the 5 extra Walks (and the 35 extra K's)
And even though they are better for Ells, ignore the stats - anyone who thinks they are equivalent players doesn't really watch baseball.
the only thing i'll say about this is don't undermind a player's OBP (similar numbers between these two players). in my opinion a player's BA is slightly over rated. it's all about OBP, and should always be mentioned before their BA. it's a baseball player's job to get on base. especially a player like gardner. eat pitches, inflate the pitcher's pitch count, take first, try and swipe some bags, go from first to third on a single. so comparing the .355 vs .344 is a little more fair in my eyes.
remember when giambi was at the end of his yankee career and had a batting average of .179? he was still in the lineup on a regular basis because his OBP was around the .400 mark. dude drew a shitload of walks, got on base, successful at bat.0 -
JonnyPistachio wrote:EdsonNascimento wrote:gregkitefan wrote:In 2013 Gardner had more walks and more extra base hits than Jacoby.
Jacoby had an ops of .781 to gardner's .759.
Considering you paid Gardner 2.8 mil last year and now just signed a very similar player to a 153 mil.
Sure another great signing!!!!!
Fun with statistics!!! Ok. Let's go.
.298 BA with .355 OBP vs. .273 and .344
Who cares who has more walks? Totally irrelevant stat when you hit 25 points lower (and BTW that avg is still -slightly - above your career mark vs the other guy being spot on his career mark).
52 vs 24 SB with 4 CS vs 9 CS when the latter's sole calling card is stealing bases
172 Hits to 147 Hits - I'll take the 25 extra hits over the 5 extra Walks (and the 35 extra K's)
And even though they are better for Ells, ignore the stats - anyone who thinks they are equivalent players doesn't really watch baseball.
I think the only argument here is: is Ellsbury worth $153,000,000 for numbers like that? No need to answer.
Lets just say I'm very glad the Red Sox didn't sign him to THAT contract!
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EdsonNascimento wrote:JonnyPistachio wrote:EdsonNascimento wrote:Fun with statistics!!! Ok. Let's go.
.298 BA with .355 OBP vs. .273 and .344
Who cares who has more walks? Totally irrelevant stat when you hit 25 points lower (and BTW that avg is still -slightly - above your career mark vs the other guy being spot on his career mark).
52 vs 24 SB with 4 CS vs 9 CS when the latter's sole calling card is stealing bases
172 Hits to 147 Hits - I'll take the 25 extra hits over the 5 extra Walks (and the 35 extra K's)
And even though they are better for Ells, ignore the stats - anyone who thinks they are equivalent players doesn't really watch baseball.
I think the only argument here is: is Ellsbury worth $153,000,000 for numbers like that? No need to answer.
Salary numbers are silly. In the scheme of the MLB pay scale - yes. You win with elite players. The mediocre (Gardner) are a dime a dozen. You can replace him easily, and yet he would still get $8-$10 million on the open market. I mean is Phil Hughes worth $24 million? Is Scott Kazmir worth $11 mil a year? It's stupid. Jim Johnson $10 million a year? Those guys are throw away guys. So, yes. Ellsbury is worth $17 or $18 mill. He's more than twice the player of those guys.
EDIT: It's "easy" to get to average. It's that last little bit to stuff like a .300 BA (not all that prevalent in MLB), and 50SB and fielding, etc. that you pay a premium for.
Yeah, there are some bad deals out there for sure, but I thought Ells contract was for 7 years. Wouldnt that mean nearly 22,000,000 per year? I think I read that its like the third or fourth highest contract? ridiculous.
I think maybe he's worth 12-15m, if he's 100% healthy.Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)0 -
JonnyPistachio wrote:Yeah, there are some bad deals out there for sure, but I thought Ells contract was for 7 years. Wouldnt that mean nearly 22,000,000 per year? I think I read that its like the third or fourth highest contract? ridiculous.
I think maybe he's worth 12-15m, if he's 100% healthy.
The thing is - what does it matter? You are right I got the number wrong. But, $22 Mill, $15 mill - what does it matter? But, having a top leadoff guy to build a line up around is critical. Should the Yankees lose him over $3 million a year? Does it really matter?Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.0 -
EdsonNascimento wrote:JonnyPistachio wrote:Yeah, there are some bad deals out there for sure, but I thought Ells contract was for 7 years. Wouldnt that mean nearly 22,000,000 per year? I think I read that its like the third or fourth highest contract? ridiculous.
I think maybe he's worth 12-15m, if he's 100% healthy.
The thing is - what does it matter? You are right I got the number wrong. But, $22 Mill, $15 mill - what does it matter? But, having a top leadoff guy to build a line up around is critical. Should the Yankees lose him over $3 million a year? Does it really matter?
It depends on what you mean by "does it matter." If salary doesnt reflect play on the field, then NO, none of it matters. Of course not. But we're discussing the Yankees and their practices on and off the field. Its just something to discuss because its interesting. I think it matters because it makes me hate baseball. If the Yankees want to over pay for slightly better than average players, fine. Do they raise their ticket prices to pay for this? Is the park sold out most of the time? Things that i'm curious about.
Another point is, would anyone be talking about this if there was some kind of way to put a dollar value on a players skills and what they bring to a team when 100% healthy? Few people will question Jeter or Cabrera. I flipped out when I heard they were going to pay 12 million to Youklis last year. How'd that work out?
Bottom line is, Ellsbury is not worth that much. Not even close. just my opinion. Maybe he'll prove me wrong. We'll see.Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)0 -
3:07pm: The Mariners may have topped the Yankees' offer to Cano, a source tells Anthony McCarron of the New York Daily News. That same source indicated to McCarron that the Mariners are pursuing Cano "guns-a-blazing," and making the pitch to Cano that he can either be a Yankee legend or be a baseball legend by helping the Mariners win their first World Series. 0
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It makes no difference what he is technically worth. It is what he is worth to the Yankees. When you factor in WAR, he will not live up to the contract. BUT the Yankees don't give a shit about money so it makes no difference what he makes.
It's not what he is worth to 29 other teams, it is what he is worth to the Yankees. If I were a fan of 28 or so other teams and they did this, I would be annoyed. We are not talking about the Kansas City Royals. Would he be worth $153 mil to them? Fuck no. But it doesn't make a bit of difference.
As I mentioned, it only matters if his salary was going to hold them back from doing other things and is being overpaid. Francesca wouldn't shut up about this today and about his contract is going to handcuff them. Bullshit. Like I said, if they are making moves like this with $100 million of Arod left and all the other bloated contracts they have, then it sure as hell isn't going to stop them from signing another big name when they need him.
By the way. MLBTR and Fangraphs both predicted a 7 year $150 mil contract for Ellsbury0 -
Does anyone else feel like Cano is going to follow the money to Seattle?Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
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Newch91 wrote:Does anyone else feel like Cano is going to follow the money to Seattle?
the contracts in this sport are so asinine. a quarter of a billion dollars for a 31 year old 2nd baseman?www.myspace.com0 -
It's insane.The Juggler wrote:Newch91 wrote:Does anyone else feel like Cano is going to follow the money to Seattle?
the contracts in this sport are so asinine. a quarter of a billion dollars for a 31 year old 2nd baseman?Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful0 -
Could this be the end of Ca-Yes?I miss igotid880
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What the fuck is jay z doing. Fuckers are desperate0
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Jay Z is 1) a homer 2) a fucking retard.
So much for his career in sports.0 -
235+ million tied up for Ellsbury and McCann but won't exceed 170 for a home grown guy who's much more durable and a #3 hitter?? I'm totally against the initial demands of Cano and mega 10 yr contracts but come on stripes you're losing me herePJ - 36
EV - 5
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Cliffy6745 wrote:What the fuck is jay z doing. Fuckers are desperate
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