Parents smoke pot, child placed in foster home, murdered

unsung · August 2013

http://www.kvue.com/news/Father-of-murd ... 37541.html

Thank God we have government protecting our best interests.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · August 2013

This is brutal.

There are some people that have some questions to answer for this.

And there is a child killer that can get whatever comes his way.

Go Beavers · August 2013

The story brings up a few questions and points. My guess is that the child was removed initially for more than just the parents smoking pot while the child was sleeping. I don't know the specifics of Texas law, but it's not always a simple process to remove a child from parents custody, and when these things happen, you get the "child welfare went to far" response, as opposed to the "why are these people allowed to even have kids, child welfare does nothing" responses.

Here's a red flag at the bottom of the article: "Officials with the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services tell KVUE they rely on private child placing agencies to perform background checks on all foster homes." Privitizing government functions isn't always a good thing.

Loulou · August 2013

I know I'm probably going to get a lashing for this but it's how I feel. Her father let her down, you can't be smoking pot when your looking after a 2 year old. Whether she's asleep or awake, you need to be sober and he wasn't. As for the foster mother, she's a disgusting f-ing monster who deserves what's coming to her.

Its Evolution Baby · August 2013

Loulou wrote:

I know I'm probably going to get a lashing for this but it's how I feel. Her father let her down, you can't be smoking pot when your looking after a 2 year old. Whether she's asleep or awake, you need to be sober and he wasn't. As for the foster mother, she's a disgusting f-ing monster who deserves what's coming to her.

I won't lash out at you but I do think we need more facts. How was CPS alerted in the first place that the indivisual was endangering the child? Was there a fire that was slept through or something like that?

If he was JUST smoking pot than he should not have had the kid taken away. Smoking pot is the equivilant of drinking a beer or having a glass of wine. It does not dull the senses enough to endanger a child.

Unless you think that all households need to be 100% sober in order to take after a kid which I will respectively diagree with. I know my Irish Family wouldn't have any kids allowed in the household in that case.

Loulou · August 2013

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

Loulou wrote:

I know I'm probably going to get a lashing for this but it's how I feel. Her father let her down, you can't be smoking pot when your looking after a 2 year old. Whether she's asleep or awake, you need to be sober and he wasn't. As for the foster mother, she's a disgusting f-ing monster who deserves what's coming to her.

I won't lash out at you but I do think we need more facts. How was CPS alerted in the first place that the indivisual was endangering the child? Was there a fire that was slept through or something like that?

If he was JUST smoking pot than he should not have had the kid taken away. Smoking pot is the equivilant of drinking a beer or having a glass of wine. It does not dull the senses enough to endanger a child.

Unless you think that all households need to be 100% sober in order to take after a kid which I will respectively diagree with. I know my Irish Family wouldn't have any kids allowed in the household in that case.

Although i dont now, I used to smoke dope so I do know how it makes you feel. Even though I don't agree with being wrecked or pissed and supervising a child, for me it's got more to do with the fact that he jeopardised the custody of his child by doing so. I guess what I'm saying is that if he felt he reeeeeally needed to have something, he should have had a beer or glass of wine because what he did was put his child at risk of being taken away. Just for the record, I do think its excessive for them to take her away without some form of warning first. Maybe he did have one? Who knows?

chadwick · August 2013

in texas full on family activities take place at nudist camps/communities. adults not mom or dad are there, all kinds of kids, everybody running amok. yeah texas has their shit together. so they arrest a family & send the kid to a foster home. smart fuckers down there texas way. people have been rotting in texas prison cells for decades over simple marijuana charges. i would bet that over the years some have been sentenced to death too.

i know the thing about the nudist community family functions because i dated a gal who was married to a sick fucking nudist freak whose every child was molested a those nudist community family centers.

texas aint right when it comes to a lot of things.

Loulou · August 2013

chadwick wrote:

in texas full on family activities take place at nudist camps/communities. adults not mom or dad are there, all kinds of kids, everybody running amok. yeah texas has their shit together. so they arrest a family & send the a foster home. smart fuckers down there texas way. people have been rotting in texas prison cells for decades over simple marijuana charges. i would bet that over the years some have been sentenced to death too.

i know the thing about the nudist community family functions because i dated a gal you was married to a sick fucking nudist freak whose every child was molested a those nudist community family centers.

texas aint right when it comes to a lot of things.

Wow :shock: that's awful! I agree that it was excessive to take her away, hell, in our country they wait and wait and wait some more before taking action on neglectful families. Only recently we had 2 deaths by the hands of their mothers. One little chicken was bitten, burnt with cigarettes, never went to school and was reported to CPS 10 times before she was killed because 'she wouldn't put her PJ's on'.

disgusting!
http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/lat ... weippeart/

Hugh Freaking Dillon · August 2013

heartbreaking.

polaris_x · August 2013

is there no end as to what you would use to rail against gov't? ... i wouldn't be surprised if the child was taken away simply because the parent was smoking pot ... i have experience with child services in a different state and i can tell you that the welfare of the child is not necessarily the #1 priority ...

unsung · August 2013

polaris_x wrote:

is there no end as to what you would use to rail against gov't? ....

Not when they provide an endless amount of material.

ajedigecko · August 2013

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

heartbreaking.

Truth.

mickeyrat · August 2013

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

Loulou wrote:

I know I'm probably going to get a lashing for this but it's how I feel. Her father let her down, you can't be smoking pot when your looking after a 2 year old. Whether she's asleep or awake, you need to be sober and he wasn't. As for the foster mother, she's a disgusting f-ing monster who deserves what's coming to her.

I won't lash out at you but I do think we need more facts. How was CPS alerted in the first place that the indivisual was endangering the child? Was there a fire that was slept through or something like that?

If he was JUST smoking pot than he should not have had the kid taken away. Smoking pot is the equivilant of drinking a beer or having a glass of wine. It does not dull the senses enough to endanger a child.

Unless you think that all households need to be 100% sober in order to take after a kid which I will respectively diagree with. I know my Irish Family wouldn't have any kids allowed in the household in that case.

Considering that its illegal at present in the state of texas to smoke,possess pot, it could be argued that the removal was justified. How's those low taxes for public services workin out for ya Perry? In my mind it lays at his feet and the legislatures.

unsung · August 2013

Taxes? Really? That's the reason why they essentially kidnapped this child from her parents?

mickeyrat · August 2013

unsung wrote:

Taxes? Really? That's the reason why they essentially kidnapped this child from her parents?

I'm assuming it was because of the fathers ILLEGAL activity. As for how they palce kids, that's squarely on Perry and the legislature. Perry as the Head of th Execd and Leg for their control of the purse strings.

belinda27 · August 2013

What happened to this precious child is sad. :(
There are 28,883 children in foster care in Texas; 10,768 of these children are waiting for adoptive families. 26 million people live in Texas...
In Australia our entire population is 23 million, 39,620 children in foster care...

Loulou wrote:

chadwick wrote:

in texas full on family activities take place at nudist camps/communities. adults not mom or dad are there, all kinds of kids, everybody running amok. yeah texas has their shit together. so they arrest a family & send the a foster home. smart fuckers down there texas way. people have been rotting in texas prison cells for decades over simple marijuana charges. i would bet that over the years some have been sentenced to death too.

i know the thing about the nudist community family functions because i dated a gal you was married to a sick fucking nudist freak whose every child was molested a those nudist community family centers.

texas aint right when it comes to a lot of things.

Wow :shock: that's awful! I agree that it was excessive to take her away, hell, in our country they wait and wait and wait some more before taking action on neglectful families. Only recently we had 2 deaths by the hands of their mothers. One little chicken was bitten, burnt with cigarettes, never went to school and was reported to CPS 10 times before she was killed because 'she wouldn't put her PJ's on'. disgusting!
http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/lat ... weippeart/

hostis · August 2013

unsung wrote:

Taxes? Really? That's the reason why they essentially kidnapped this child from her parents?

kidnapped? where on earth did that come from? children placed into care are not KIDNAPPED.

how can that assessment possibly be gained from that one supplied article?

Loulou · August 2013

belinda27 wrote:

What happened to this precious child is sad. :(
There are 28,883 children in foster care in Texas; 10,768 of these children are waiting for adoptive families. 26 million people live in Texas...
In Australia our entire population is 23 million, 39,620 children in foster care...

Loulou wrote:

chadwick wrote:

in texas full on family activities take place at nudist camps/communities. adults not mom or dad are there, all kinds of kids, everybody running amok. yeah texas has their shit together. so they arrest a family & send the a foster home. smart fuckers down there texas way. people have been rotting in texas prison cells for decades over simple marijuana charges. i would bet that over the years some have been sentenced to death too.

i know the thing about the nudist community family functions because i dated a gal you was married to a sick fucking nudist freak whose every child was molested a those nudist community family centers.

texas aint right when it comes to a lot of things.

Wow :shock: that's awful! I agree that it was excessive to take her away, hell, in our country they wait and wait and wait some more before taking action on neglectful families. Only recently we had 2 deaths by the hands of their mothers. One little chicken was bitten, burnt with cigarettes, never went to school and was reported to CPS 10 times before she was killed because 'she wouldn't put her PJ's on'. disgusting!
http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/lat ... weippeart/

Wow! Really? That's terrible. :(

Pingfah · August 2013

There must be more to this than just him smoking pot? Unless the parents were so permanently stoned they could not function, which would be extremely fucking stoned, to remove a child from a loving home and put them into foster care is insanity. Poor fucking guy though, to lose a child, hard to imagine anything worse.

I'm gonna assume there is more the article does not mention. Otherwise, i'll just add this to the list of reasons never to visit Texas, as though there weren't enough of those already.

hostis · August 2013

Pingfah wrote:

There must be more to this than just him smoking pot? Unless the parents were so permanently stoned they could not function, which would be extremely fucking stoned, to remove a child from a loving home and put them into foster care is insanity. Poor fucking guy though, to lose a child, hard to imagine anything worse.

you never know. 'Just ' smoking pot is fine unless they were putting their own needs ahead of the child's.

Pingfah · August 2013

That would be the "more" I am referring to. Nothing in the article suggests he had neglected or endangered the child though. It seems like they may be omitting some vital information.

Go Beavers · August 2013

Pingfah wrote:

That would be the "more" I am referring to. Nothing in the article suggests he had neglected or endangered the child though. It seems like they may be omitting some vital information.

They probably just asked the dad why he lost custody. Child welfare wouldn't be able to comment on it.

Pingfah · August 2013

Good point.

Go Beavers · August 2013

unsung wrote:

Taxes? Really? That's the reason why they essentially kidnapped this child from her parents?

For you, what would be a situation where the child's removed from their parent's custody that would cross the threashold from kidnapping to protecting the child?

Thirty Bills Unpaid · August 2013

Go Beavers wrote:

unsung wrote:

Taxes? Really? That's the reason why they essentially kidnapped this child from her parents?

For you, what would be a situation where the child's removed from their parent's custody that would cross the threashold from kidnapping to protecting the child?

Let's call this for what it is: the purpose for posting this wasn't to share a story that is concerning... it was (to be frank) shamefully used as a tool to push an agenda.

This incident occurred at the micro scale. We don't even know the full story. Clearly there are problems with it, but to blame the government for this incident is ridiculous. The government agency that seeks to protect children is vital given how poorly adults act sometimes. A government agent may have acted unwisely in determining the appropriateness of the residence where the death occurred, but that's as far as one could go with this.

belinda27 · August 2013

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Let's call this for what it is: the purpose for posting this wasn't to share a story that is concerning... it was (to be frank) shamefully used as a tool to push an agenda.

This incident occurred at the micro scale. We don't even know the full story. Clearly there are problems with it, but to blame the government for this incident is ridiculous. The government agency that seeks to protect children is vital given how poorly adults act sometimes. A government agent may have acted unwisely in determining the appropriateness of the residence where the death occurred, but that's as far as one could go with this.

It is important to safeguard any child from this situation in the future. My understanding is not blaming the government but discussing the fact that the government has privatised this area of child protection, and sadly due to these changes the professionalism,regularity, and standards of care are seriously compromised. This is a many faceted issue that will require more than one single answer or strategy.

brianlux · August 2013

A terrible tragedy, for sure. Absolutely. Blame it on the government? Not so sure. CPS agencies, like any agency, vary from place to place, even agent to agent. Same would be said if this were run privately- companies vary in quality of operation. A blanket statement of blame is simple and easy, but is it useful or helpful? Not so sure.

Who Princess · August 2013

belinda27 wrote:

It is important to safeguard any child from this situation in the future. My understanding is not blaming the government but discussing the fact that the government has privatised this area of child protection, and sadly due to these changes the professionalism,regularity, and standards of care are seriously compromised. This is a many faceted issue that will require more than one single answer or strategy.

Thank you.

As a Texan, I can tell you there actually are a lot of very ordinary people who live here. People who go to work, raise families, listen to PJ, do the kinds of things you'd expect people to do. We don't all drive pickups, carry guns, chew tobacco or marry our siblings.

I've known several people who worked for Child Protective Services and as far as the public is concerned it's a pretty thankless job. If they don't remove the child, it's because they care more about finishing their paperwork than protecting children. If they do remove the child, it's Gestapo tactics.

Most of the time, it's VERY difficult to remove a child and place them in foster care. It may take more than one reported incident before the child is removed. The only time they swoop in and take the children is when there is something overt. There was a case here last year where the parents AND grandparents were sitting around smoking crack. While failing to watch their toddler, she wandered outside and was attacked by their pit bull. Adults arrested; children taken by CPS.

I would be very surprised if this man's child was put in foster care simply because he was smoking pot. Typical possession is a misdemeanor here. There would be a lot more children removed if that was case. Also, when CPS removes a child, they first try to place the child in a relative's home. This happens much more often than a foster home. How his daughter came to be in foster care I don't know.

Whatever the reason his child was removed, I see a much bigger culprit with the privatized foster placement service. We have attempted to privatize many services in Texas and I can't think of any example that has worked well.

Finally--sheesh, it's not all that scary in these parts! Ya'll are welcome to visit any time and I'll be happy to show you what a nice place it is.

hostis · August 2013

there is always more to a story than is written. and that must always be countered into any discussion....

polaris_x · August 2013

Who Princess wrote:

We have attempted to privatize many services in Texas and I can't think of any example that has worked well.

and this is the crux of it ... always has been ... the corporatization of gov't ... when the gov't works for corporations and not people - this is the result ... so, as unsung is correct in blaming gov't as ultimately they are the ones capitulating to these corporations ... he should really look at the people for allowing this to happen ...

vant0037 · August 2013

unsung wrote:

Taxes? Really? That's the reason why they essentially kidnapped this child from her parents?

My god...you cannot be that paranoid.

As an attorney currently representing PARENTS in child protection cases (aka people trying to get their kids back), I can say first hand that (1) people who think the government is out there kidnaping kids by placing them in foster homes have never seen what growing up in a home with drug use or mental illness or both does to kids (here's a hint: it creates crazy drug addicts!), and (2) there is always so much more to the story than what a parent's opinion of the situation is (understandably).

Why can't this be a horrible story about a murdered child? Why did you have politicize her life and death? Should I find news stories about the number of children who died at the hands of their parents because child protection wasn't involved? Should we compare notes and see which is worse? I promise you lose that argument.

It's appalling the lack of shame around here sometimes...

Parents smoke pot, child placed in foster home, murdered

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