The Death Penalty

so if we went back in time & caught & put on trial, adolph hittler, his top & lower ss officers including dr. josef mengele; it would be wrong to seek the death penalty for these vile monsters?

know1 wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Yah. You're probably right. Fuk the victims- they're already gone. And the survivors: get over it, man.

Let's focus on rehabilitating the poor murderers or at least treating them with as much compassion as we can.

You wonder why you're having a hard time convincing the 'segment'?

I didn't say any of that.

I just think murder - no matter who is murdering - is wrong.

Secondly, I think it's wrong to take comfort, pleasure, solace, healing, etc. from someone being killed - no matter who they are.

I'm not saying ANYTHING about rehabilitating the criminal or any of that extra stuff you tried to throw in there.

No. You never said it as bluntly as I did, but you did say it.

callen wrote:

chadwick wrote:

so if we went back in time & caught & put on trial, adolph hittler, his top & lower ss officers including dr. josef mengele; it would be wrong to seek the death penalty for these vile monsters?

Yes....because if we kill, we are just like them.

Lock them up...don't let them out. Solved...

The we would end up being just like them argument is hardly valid.

For us to be just like them... that would mean we would be preying on innocents and doing unspeakable and obscene things to them.

Your line is locked up forever. Some others, such as the moron who married David Shearing after he murdered a family of six in brutal fashion, don't want them locked up at all. Others, want a more definitive method of justice exercised that clearly reflects our disdain for the crime and for the person who committed the crime.

No opportunities to go on hunger strikes because you don't like shepherd's pie. No opportunities to connect with people and marry them. No opportunities to read and write and listen to the new music that is being released. The victims cannot. Why should the 'segment' be accepting of such mild penalties for rape and murder?

know1 wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

No. You never said it as bluntly as I did, but you did say it.

I rarely say this in life, but you are 100% wrong if you attribute those comments to me. I did not say those things.

Well Mr. Right... I do recall you saying this: We should rise above the scumbag murderers and rapists. We are better than them. Lock em up throw away the key. Give em just enough to keep them sane to limit costs.

So... what exactly does such a program look like? Keeping someone sane means offering those 'extras' that we currently do. Sounds to me like you haven't fully thought this one out.

Edit: Callen said it. You supported Callen. I confused you two.

know1 wrote:

I think it's wrong to take comfort, pleasure, solace, healing, etc. from someone being killed - no matter who they are.

Why don't you message Mr. Petit and tell him you think he is wrong to seek comfort in seeing the scum that killed his family facing the DP? He was a former opponent of the DP, but his perspective changed that horrible day. Perhaps he might be able to share with you why his perspective has changed.

Hummph, sat for 26 years , ahs the Pros attorney on his side for a new trial, hangs himself 3 days before the state would have moved to injection....

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-575 ... nd-hanged/


CLEVELAND A man condemned to death for fatally stabbing a neighbor during a Cleveland burglary was found hanged in his cell Sunday just days before his Wednesday execution.


Billy Slagle
This undated file photo provided by the Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction shows Billy Slagle.
/ File,AP Photo/Ohio Department of Rehabilitation
Billy Slagle, 44, was found at about 5 a.m. at the Chillicothe Correctional Institution south of Columbus and was declared dead within the hour, prison spokeswoman JoEllen Smith said.


"He was in his cell alone. No other inmates suspected to be involved," Smith said in an email. "It does appear to be a suicide."


Under regular prison policy, he was scheduled to be placed under pre-execution watch Sunday morning but "was not yet placed under constant watch," Smith said.


Police say in the wee hours of the morning, then-18-year-old Billy Slagle broke into his neighbor Mari Anne Pope's home and stabbed her 17 times with a pair scissors, reports CBS affiliate WOIO in Cleveland. Turns out two children she was watching that night heard the attack. They told detectives they heard Pope start praying and then heard her blood curdling screams.


In a rare move, the prosecutor in Cleveland asked the Ohio Parole Board to spare Slagle. Cuyahoga County Prosecutor Tim McGinty said jurors today, with the option of life without parole, would be unlikely to sentence Slagle to death.


The parole board and Gov. John Kasich both rejected mercy for Slagle.


Last week, Slagle's attorney argued that a jury never got the chance to hear the full details of his troubled childhood.


The attorneys, arguing for a new trial and to delay his execution, said that information met requirements for asking for a new trial, which normally must happen within four months of a conviction.


Slagle was "unavoidably prevented" from filing his request because his original attorneys didn't develop and present the evidence, the filing said.


McGinty and Slagle's attorneys had cited his age — at 18(*), he was barely old enough for execution in Ohio — and his history of alcohol and drug addiction.


edit (*) refers to at trial.

Petit's parents were also anti-DP until this incident. I really feel like most anti-DP people would change their tune if confronted with this type of mental anguish.

I can appreciate the anti-DP view....I just don't hold that view.

Byrnzie wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

know1 wrote:

I think it's wrong to take comfort, pleasure, solace, healing, etc. from someone being killed - no matter who they are.

Why don't you message Mr. Petit and tell him you think he is wrong to seek comfort in seeing the scum that killed his family facing the DP? He was a former opponent of the DP, but his perspective changed that horrible day. Perhaps he might be able to share with you why his perspective has changed.

There are also many former proponents of the death penalty, including family members of victims, prison guards, and executioners, who have since changed their minds about it, and are now staunchly opposed to it.

Byrnzie...

Normally you always provide a refernce for your claims such as this one. Regardless, I'll take this point and can accept it to some degree.

I have advocated for the DP in the event of murders of the grotesque/obscene nature (kids, serial fashion, mass fashion, elements of torture, etc.). I would speculate that the family members of victims of these sorts of crimes are very much in the minority. I know every crime I referenced, the family members are outraged that their killer either never received death or are awaiting death to serve as justice for the depravity displayed towards their loved ones.

Guards and executioners are probably a mixed bag: for some they can't wait to pull the switch and for others they are hesitant depending on who they are dealing with. The Green Mile (great show by the way), would speak to the point I am trying to make.

Byrnzie...

Thanks for links.

I read through three of them. Well, two of them- one was in Japanese.

The 'survivor' stories I read provided some insight as to the circumstances of the murders that took their loved ones. These cases didn't exactly qualify as the murders I would seek the death penalty for. They were singular in nature (not mass or serial), didn't involve bondage and torture, and each one I reviewed was that of a young adult- not a young child.

The arguments presented were not novel- I've heard them all before.

I have cited several cases where the parents of murdered victims have sought the DP for the murderers: Shearing, Olson, Rafferty, the Cheshire idiots, and Richard Allen Davis have family members wishing for their execution and for good reason.

They are not as forgiving as some of the religious types describing their experiences in the links you provided, but certainly not evil or simple for seeking what they see as justice.