Republican leaders sign pro-gay marriage brief

polaris_x · February 2013

this doesn't really shock me ...

1. these are primarily out of service republicans which also means they are older school republicans ... which means that they aren't the new wave tea party republicans who share extremist viewpoints on pretty much everything.

2. they are no longer beholden to their campaign and electoral base and i'm pretty sure they knew what they did in the past was wrong and now are trying to make amends.

3. it's sad that so many issues have become partisan when they have no foundation in partisan divides ... it's like the 2-party system sets a condition by which there can be no consensus on anything ... this topic is a great example ...

dignin · February 2013

polaris_x wrote:

this doesn't really shock me ...

1. these are primarily out of service republicans which also means they are older school republicans ... which means that they aren't the new wave tea party republicans who share extremist viewpoints on pretty much everything.

2. they are no longer beholden to their campaign and electoral base and i'm pretty sure they knew what they did in the past was wrong and now are trying to make amends.

3. it's sad that so many issues have become partisan when they have no foundation in partisan divides ... it's like the 2-party system sets a condition by which there can be no consensus on anything ... this topic is a great example ...

Yes.

Either way this is good news.

Jeanwah · February 2013

dignin wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

this doesn't really shock me ...

1. these are primarily out of service republicans which also means they are older school republicans ... which means that they aren't the new wave tea party republicans who share extremist viewpoints on pretty much everything.

2. they are no longer beholden to their campaign and electoral base and i'm pretty sure they knew what they did in the past was wrong and now are trying to make amends.

3. it's sad that so many issues have become partisan when they have no foundation in partisan divides ... it's like the 2-party system sets a condition by which there can be no consensus on anything ... this topic is a great example ...

Yes.

Either way this is good news.

Yeah, it's great news. Hard to believe that it's for realz (I guess we'll see down the road if they mean it), but great to hear nonetheless.

Prince Of Dorkness · February 2013

cincybearcat wrote:

Yet he welcomed Obama in with open arms. And he was the same.

Not true.

When the president came out in favor of Marriage Equality, he was the sitting president... the first in history to do so. AND he was just about to go into a very expensive and divisive election against a man who had said he would add marriage inequality to the US Constitution.

President Obama has never worked against equality. He isn't like Meg Whitman who supported Prop 8. She said it would cost too much. He was always against it, and while he hadn't come out in support of full equality before he was always in favor of legal standing and recognition and never supported anti-equality measures.

He's since continued to fight and supported the move to equality and even called us out in his inauguration speech. Another first.

Just signing some letter to the Supreme Court, frankly, isn't the same and when taking personal history into account... just isn't enough.

Prince Of Dorkness · February 2013

hedonist wrote:

No one's asked you to do anything. I was pointing out how even when someone's view shifts, it's never good enough.

Well good for them that their "view" has changed. But the damage has still been done.

Proposition 8 is still on the books and I'm certainly not willing to just let bygones be bygones now that the Mormon cultists have seen public opinion explode in their faces and are trying to improve their image without actually acknowledging their atrocities and fix what they broke.

Quite honestly... no. After two decades of vicious attacks on my family... millions of dollars poured into campaigns against our rights and protections... calling us names, blaming us for the woes of society, making it illegal to co-parent our children, stopping us from having the same protections as everyone else and the same opportunities as everyone else... and getting a big thrill of kicking us when we're down... just adding your name to some ultimately meaningless legal brief and saying "oh... sorry about that" just isn't good enough. Not by a long shot.

Would it be good enough for you?

Prince Of Dorkness · February 2013

hedonist wrote:

Thanks for both your thoughts, as I don't disagree. I do, however, feel that some are unwilling to shed even a bit of the chip on their shoulder. I appreciate why it's there but we all have them in various forms and weight; we have to live with them, deal with them, and maybe, MAYBE, recognize that some people do change. Motives don't always need to be assigned, and for me, the angry young man (or woman) schtik gets old after awhile, when presented with some small positive change in the works.

So if a group of people spent the last couple of decades attacking you and getting a big kick out of making your life miserable and marginalizing you and cheering as you had your rights and protections removed in a big ballot-box popularity contest...

You'd just shrug that off if they signed a letter someone else wrote saying "that was bad. Oh well... I've changed... let's just move on and let bygones be bygones."

ok.

cincybearcat · February 2013

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

blaming us for the woes of society

No kidding. Everyone knows it isn't gays, it;s the porn industry!

callen · February 2013

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

It's a bit confusing. But I honestly don't buy it.

This is a bunch of people with nothing to lose, saying something that the majority of the country thinks. And it's all part of a larger effort to soften the image of the Republican Party away from being a bunch of classist, racist, sexist homophobes.

But hey... if it helps (which I doubt it will), cool.

Politicians pander for votes

Hoping all social conservative ideals will fall by the wayside...well they will just take time.

Forced evolution. HA

hedonist · February 2013

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

So if a group of people spent the last couple of decades attacking you and getting a big kick out of making your life miserable and marginalizing you and cheering as you had your rights and protections removed in a big ballot-box popularity contest...

You'd just shrug that off if they signed a letter someone else wrote saying "that was bad. Oh well... I've changed... let's just move on and let bygones be bygones."

ok.

Please...that's not what I was saying. While there are haters (of all kinds) out there, not everyone who opposed/opposes gay marriage does so from a place of hate. I doubt Meg Whitman was dancing a jig because of inequality.

Some people are seeing the light and that's a good thing. Little steps, but they are steps.

What's the point of sharing your own troubles, trying to educate others? Help them understand, open their mind? And when some finally do, it's poo-pooed and more...hate...is spewed. That was my point.

josevolution · February 2013

I say it's about time these folks got their heads out of their asses but i agree with Prince they spewed all the hate to begin with so now people are supposed to welcome them with open arms i say keep them at arms lengh ...it seems so staged ...

unsung · February 2013

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

years of bigotry and then sudden capitulation only when it is politically advantageous deserves no credit.

only a fool would believe that these people suddenly decided now was the time

I'm confused. Are we talking about the GOP or the President who is "evolving"?

Prince Of Dorkness · February 2013

hedonist wrote:

not everyone who opposed/opposes gay marriage does so from a place of hate. I doubt Meg Whitman was dancing a jig because of inequality.

I've yet to hear an argument that didn't drip of either hate or head-inn-ass syndrome. Meg Whitman's reason, as I recall was that marriage equality would "cost too much." Translation is either "you should pay for me but I should not pay for you" or "hate doesn't sell as well as it used to, now we're trying to pander to people's wallets."

Some people are seeing the light and that's a good thing. Little steps, but they are steps.

What's the point of sharing your own troubles, trying to educate others? Help them understand, open their mind? And when some finally do, it's poo-pooed and more...hate...is spewed. That was my point.

That is true... but at the moment I feel like you're giving me shit because I'm not thanking someone for pulling out the knife they stabbed me with. The damage is done and this just isn't enough for me to see it as anything but political posturing and image repair. When I see some ACTUAL action and not just adding your name to a list, maybe I'll change my own tune. But not before.

Prince Of Dorkness · February 2013

unsung wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

years of bigotry and then sudden capitulation only when it is politically advantageous deserves no credit.

only a fool would believe that these people suddenly decided now was the time

I'm confused. Are we talking about the GOP or the President who is "evolving"?

Oh. Please.

Nobody has ever described the president's position as "bigotry" and he never supported any anti-equality legislation. While he took longer to come right out and say he supported marriage equality than many of us wished he had, comparing him to Meg Whitman and other GOP people who actively campaigned AGAINST equality is just wrong.

Bentleyspop · February 2013

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

unsung wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

years of bigotry and then sudden capitulation only when it is politically advantageous deserves no credit.

only a fool would believe that these people suddenly decided now was the time

I'm confused. Are we talking about the GOP or the President who is "evolving"?

Oh. Please.

Nobody has ever described the president's position as "bigotry" and he never supported any anti-equality legislation. While he took longer to come right out and say he supported marriage equality than many of us wished he had, comparing him to Meg Whitman and other GOP people who actively campaigned AGAINST equality is just wrong.

Once again you make a lot of sense

hedonist · February 2013

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

hedonist wrote:

Some people are seeing the light and that's a good thing. Little steps, but they are steps.

What's the point of sharing your own troubles, trying to educate others? Help them understand, open their mind? And when some finally do, it's poo-pooed and more...hate...is spewed. That was my point.

That is true... but at the moment I feel like you're giving me shit because I'm not thanking someone for pulling out the knife they stabbed me with. The damage is done and this just isn't enough for me to see it as anything but political posturing and image repair. When I see some ACTUAL action and not just adding your name to a list, maybe I'll change my own tune. But not before.

Not my intent to give you shit and I'm sorry if you took it that way. Wasn't expecting you to be thanking anyone but at the same time, just...disappointed in the ever-cynicism.

Hell, I've seen support for the (former?) scumbags who defected from Westboro. People can change - correction - *some* people can change. Yes, damage done and wish it hadn't been done to begin with, but like I said, it IS a start.

I'm in no position to assign motives.

cincybearcat · February 2013

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

Oh. Please.

Nobody has ever described the president's position as "bigotry" and he never supported any anti-equality legislation. While he took longer to come right out and say he supported marriage equality than many of us wished he had, comparing him to Meg Whitman and other GOP people who actively campaigned AGAINST equality is just wrong.

It is a good point. But pretty sure inaction and support of defining marriage as a man and a woman doesn't really give you any high ground.

So the ones that stayed silent and let others spew hate aren't as bad? I say they are all equally wrong on the issue.

ANyway, I see this as a good thing, but it is a very, very small step.

Jason P · February 2013

cincybearcat wrote:

So the ones that stayed silent and let others spew hate aren't as bad? I say they are all equally wrong on the issue.

The democrats did stay silent until they felt that the public perception had changed enough that stating their position in support of gay rights wouldn't have a negative effect at the polls. I like how they had Biden strategically test the waters before jumping in.

JimmyV · February 2013

Jason P wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

So the ones that stayed silent and let others spew hate aren't as bad? I say they are all equally wrong on the issue.

The democrats did stay silent until they felt that the public perception had changed enough that stating their position in support of gay rights wouldn't have a negative effect at the polls. I like how they had Biden strategically test the waters before jumping in.

"There go my people. I must find out where they are going so I can lead them."

- Alexandre Auguste Ledru-Rollin, french politician

Prince Of Dorkness · February 2013

cincybearcat wrote:

So the ones that stayed silent and let others spew hate aren't as bad? I say they are all equally wrong on the issue.

Oh... Equally wrong... Maybe.

Equally guilty of the damage done?

No. And that's what I'm pissed about.

mikepegg44 · February 2013

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

So the ones that stayed silent and let others spew hate aren't as bad? I say they are all equally wrong on the issue.

Oh... Equally wrong... Maybe.

Equally guilty of the damage done?

No. And that's what I'm pissed about.

I cannot begin to fully feel the anger you have towards those who ridiculously and very publicly minimize and chastise your way of life.

But as far as what you said here it reminds me of this

“The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.”
Plato

Just my opinion of course, but those who do and say nothing when they could have, should not receive the same anger from you, but they are definitely as much at fault for nothing changing.

Republican leaders sign pro-gay marriage brief

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