Republican leaders sign pro-gay marriage brief

mysticweed · February 2013

i'm am going to call satan (in whom i do not believe) and see if hell (again, do not believe) has frozen

there's more on the site

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02 ... rief?lite=

Supporters of same-sex marriage hope for a boost this week when dozens of high-profile Republicans, many no longer in office, submit their legal argument to the Supreme Court on why gays and lesbians should be allowed to wed, bucking their party's platform in a move that one who had a change of heart on the issue said would “strengthen our nation as a whole.”
More than 80 Republicans have signed the brief to be filed in the case of Proposition 8, a California law banning same-sex marriage, according to the American Foundation for Equal Rights, which is waging the legal battle against the law. The nation’s high court will hear arguments in the case in late March.

One scholar described the effort as “inconceivable” just two years ago, and one of the signers, former California gubernatorial candidate Meg Whitman, said in a blog that she had changed her mind on the issue, “like several others who have either sought or held public office, including President Obama.”
“As the Republican nominee for governor of California three years ago, I supported the majority of Californians who voted for Proposition 8 and against same sex marriage,” Whitman, president and chief executive officer of Hewlett-Packard Co “After careful review and reflection since then, I have come to embrace civil marriage for same sex couples.”
She noted in her blog that same-sex families “should have equal access to the benefits of marriage” and later added: “Establishing a constitutional right of marriage equality in California will strengthen our nation as a whole.”

Prince Of Dorkness · February 2013

It's a bit confusing. But I honestly don't buy it.

This is a bunch of people with nothing to lose, saying something that the majority of the country thinks. And it's all part of a larger effort to soften the image of the Republican Party away from being a bunch of classist, racist, sexist homophobes.

But hey... if it helps (which I doubt it will), cool.

hedonist · February 2013

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

It's a bit confusing. But I honestly don't buy it.

This is a bunch of people with nothing to lose, saying something that the majority of the country thinks. And it's all part of a larger effort to soften the image of the Republican Party away from being a bunch of classist, racist, sexist homophobes.

But hey... if it helps (which I doubt it will), cool.

Because of their party, you judge the willingness of some to finally support gay marriage as insincere.

To me, you're coming off as close-minded as you accuse them of being.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I find it frustrating, but not surprising.

cincybearcat · February 2013

Just like Obama (who some here give a shit ton of credit) maybe these people were at one point too insecure and felt they needed to pander to their base for votes...but they have decided to stop that.

I find this to be very positive. Though, for any of them that have been vocally against it for a while (like Obama) I'm not really going to give them much personal credit for stopping being douchebags.

It's something that most people, if they have a prejudice against gays but are still good people, generally realize and change in their late teens and early 20's. why do we elect the ones that are late bloomers?

Prince Of Dorkness · February 2013

hedonist wrote:

Because of their party, you judge the willingness of some to finally support gay marriage as insincere.

You don't?

This is the party that openly bragged about how the only way George W Bush won a second term was by putting anti-gay ballot measures in all the Swing States in 2004. This is the party that pretty much votes 100% of the time against even basic rights and protections for my family.

And you expect me to think that in a few short months since getting their asses kicked in the last election that ALL of those former-elected officials (and pretty much ZERO currently elected officials) all just... spontaneously changed their positions.

OK.

To me, you're coming off as close-minded as you accuse them of being.

And when I score cheap political points by voting away their basic rights and protections, call them "anti-family" and blame them for the spread of HIV... you will have a point.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I find it frustrating, but not surprising.

you know what I find frustrating?

That they all waited until they had no actual power to do anything before suddenly seeing the light. And now that they've done all that damage, you're getting on my back for not falling to my knees and thanking them for the "oh yeah... sorry about that."

Well fuck them. And you too, if you think I'm that easy to fool.

Prince Of Dorkness · February 2013

cincybearcat wrote:

Just like Obama (who some here give a shit ton of credit) maybe these people were at one point too insecure and felt they needed to pander to their base for votes...but they have decided to stop that.

Um.. none of those people need votes because none of them are in office anymore.

peacefrompaul · February 2013

Well... I'm not sure what to think of this. It's like they confirmed that they were playing the game while they were in office.

So, at the very least, fuck them for that.

And thanks for the support, I guess.... though it seems a little strange.

Wilds · February 2013

I'd call it a step in the right direction. And although they don't have real power, there is power in their action.

It will make it easier for future Republicans to join the fight for equal rights for all people.

So I applaud it, even if there is a lot of truth in the above posts.

cincybearcat · February 2013

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Just like Obama (who some here give a shit ton of credit) maybe these people were at one point too insecure and felt they needed to pander to their base for votes...but they have decided to stop that.

Um.. none of those people need votes because none of them are in office anymore.

Ummm... I didn;t say they were. I said they pandered for votes by being anti-gay.

hedonist · February 2013

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

hedonist wrote:

Because of their party, you judge the willingness of some to finally support gay marriage as insincere.

You don't?

This is the party that openly bragged about how the only way George W Bush won a second term was by putting anti-gay ballot measures in all the Swing States in 2004. This is the party that pretty much votes 100% of the time against even basic rights and protections for my family.

And you expect me to think that in a few short months since getting their asses kicked in the last election that ALL of those former-elected officials (and pretty much ZERO currently elected officials) all just... spontaneously changed their positions.

OK.

To me, you're coming off as close-minded as you accuse them of being.

And when I score cheap political points by voting away their basic rights and protections, call them "anti-family" and blame them for the spread of HIV... you will have a point.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I find it frustrating, but not surprising.

you know what I find frustrating?

That they all waited until they had no actual power to do anything before suddenly seeing the light. And now that they've done all that damage, you're getting on my back for not falling to my knees and thanking them for the "oh yeah... sorry about that."

Well fuck them. And you too, if you think I'm that easy to fool.

No one's asked you to do anything. I was pointing out how even when someone's view shifts, it's never good enough.

So yeah, I think people can and do change. Do you? Sometimes I like to give the benefit of the doubt.

Fuck me indeed, I guess. Thanks for the classless comment.

gimmesometruth27 · February 2013

but

but

but

i thought marriage is defined as man and woman. adam and eve, not adam and steve????

wow, how long until these people are primaried and/or thrown out of the party?

Thirty Bills Unpaid · February 2013

hedonist wrote:

No one's asked you to do anything. I was pointing out how even when someone's view shifts, it's never good enough.

So yeah, I think people can and do change. Do you? Sometimes I like to give the benefit of the doubt.

Fuck me indeed, I guess. Thanks for the classless comment.

Playing mediator... I think we can understand why Prince would not be so eager to jump in with both feet and why he might harbour resentment.

While I agree that the abrupt change in line of thinking or values is interesting, I agree with Hedonist in that the move is definitely a positive one regardless of the strength of conviction behind it.

gimmesometruth27 · February 2013

this is nothing more than the politically expedient thing to do. this is most likely only to try to bring some gays and lesbians back to the republican "big tent".

cincybearcat · February 2013

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

hedonist wrote:

No one's asked you to do anything. I was pointing out how even when someone's view shifts, it's never good enough.

So yeah, I think people can and do change. Do you? Sometimes I like to give the benefit of the doubt.

Fuck me indeed, I guess. Thanks for the classless comment.

Playing mediator... I think we can understand why Prince would not be so eager to jump in with both feet and why he might harbour resentment.

While I agree that the abrupt change in line of thinking or values is interesting, I agree with Hedonist in that the move is definitely a positive one regardless of the strength of conviction behind it.

Yet he welcomed Obama in with open arms. And he was the same. None of these people deserve a pat on the back though. More like, "what took you so long" and "don't screw up again".

pandora · February 2013

Again moderation the key to common sense and compromise.
Funny when we see the GOP bring more in touch views they still get no credit,
that seems incredibly out of touch to me.

peacefrompaul · February 2013

pandora wrote:

Again moderation the key to common sense and compromise.
Funny when we see the GOP bring more in touch views they still get no credit,
that seems incredibly out of touch to me.

Sure

But you understand the hesitation, correct? After years of bashing gays, they all of a sudden come out in support? I mean, that's great.... but, wow.

Interesting times

JimmyV · February 2013

cincybearcat wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

hedonist wrote:

No one's asked you to do anything. I was pointing out how even when someone's view shifts, it's never good enough.

So yeah, I think people can and do change. Do you? Sometimes I like to give the benefit of the doubt.

Fuck me indeed, I guess. Thanks for the classless comment.

Playing mediator... I think we can understand why Prince would not be so eager to jump in with both feet and why he might harbour resentment.

While I agree that the abrupt change in line of thinking or values is interesting, I agree with Hedonist in that the move is definitely a positive one regardless of the strength of conviction behind it.

Yet he welcomed Obama in with open arms. And he was the same. None of these people deserve a pat on the back though. More like, "what took you so long" and "don't screw up again".

Obama still had an election to get through. These people do not. That is a big difference.

But yes, it isn't out of line to ask anyone what took you so long to come around on this issue.

gimmesometruth27 · February 2013

pandora wrote:

Again moderation the key to common sense and compromise.
Funny when we see the GOP bring more in touch views they still get no credit,
that seems incredibly out of touch to me.

years of bigotry and then sudden capitulation only when it is politically advantageous deserves no credit.

only a fool would believe that these people suddenly decided now was the time

losing 5 of the last 6 elections must have finally gotten their attention on some social issues.

pandora · February 2013

peacefrompaul wrote:

pandora wrote:

Again moderation the key to common sense and compromise.
Funny when we see the GOP bring more in touch views they still get no credit,
that seems incredibly out of touch to me.

Sure

But you understand the hesitation, correct? After years of bashing gays, they all of a sudden come out in support? I mean, that's great.... but, wow.

Interesting times

I understand the hesitation for some and it's not pretty.

I've changed my opinion on issues with life experience, knowledge and feelings that others share.
That's life. And we are headed into very interesting times, hopefully one of forgiveness
and understanding.

pandora · February 2013

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

pandora wrote:

Again moderation the key to common sense and compromise.
Funny when we see the GOP bring more in touch views they still get no credit,
that seems incredibly out of touch to me.

years of bigotry and then sudden capitulation only when it is politically advantageous deserves no credit.

only a fool would believe that these people suddenly decided now was the time

losing 5 of the last 6 elections must have finally gotten their attention on some social issues.

Only a fool would not forgive and accept and live and let live.
Do you think this is a good thing or would you rather they stayed the same?
Who do you give credit to?

hedonist · February 2013

cincybearcat wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

hedonist wrote:

No one's asked you to do anything. I was pointing out how even when someone's view shifts, it's never good enough.

So yeah, I think people can and do change. Do you? Sometimes I like to give the benefit of the doubt.

Fuck me indeed, I guess. Thanks for the classless comment.

Playing mediator... I think we can understand why Prince would not be so eager to jump in with both feet and why he might harbour resentment.

While I agree that the abrupt change in line of thinking or values is interesting, I agree with Hedonist in that the move is definitely a positive one regardless of the strength of conviction behind it.

Yet he welcomed Obama in with open arms. And he was the same. None of these people deserve a pat on the back though. More like, "what took you so long" and "don't screw up again".

Thanks for both your thoughts, as I don't disagree. I do, however, feel that some are unwilling to shed even a bit of the chip on their shoulder. I appreciate why it's there but we all have them in various forms and weight; we have to live with them, deal with them, and maybe, MAYBE, recognize that some people do change. Motives don't always need to be assigned, and for me, the angry young man (or woman) schtik gets old after awhile, when presented with some small positive change in the works.

Republican leaders sign pro-gay marriage brief

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