"Remember the Ladies..."

I can't condemn the band over the song and I won't claim to be a fan of it either. I don't think you can be too judgmental of them unless it becomes a trend instead of a one time event brought together by the uniqueness of the festival.

I prefer my Pearl Jam without any adulterants - I know some people love it when they team up with other artists, but unless its someone like Neil Young, I don't care for it too much. But I respect other people's right to love it or criticize it according to their own views.

Jeff raved about seeing 50 Cent.
Stone actively scouted and signed rap acts to his record label. He raved about Timbaland.
Ed was a Public Enemy fan.
They're all friends with the Beastie Boys, played shows with Ice Cube, Cypress Hill, etc.
Original Poster---Go read lyrics by all of those acts.

I don't understand why the Jay Z collaboration and the Oracle gig are so shocking. Pearl Jam are eclectic music fans, smart businessmen, and human beings. Don't hold them up to be something so elite. They like having fun too. This is hilarious. We're talking about a group who's shows are 65% frat boys.

meme wrote:

It does not seem to me that I wrote nonsense, or a rant, or a lecture. I was expressing an opinion bringing in evidence that appeared to me compelling giving some background on where I was coming from.

I thought this was what a forum was about. Now I see why people preferred to write their support in private...

Hey meme, I don't mean to come off too strongly. I didn't mean to accuse you of a nonsensical rant, but the last paragraph of the OP is a bit lecture-ish if you will. It's just ironic to me that the original post was from a very wise pedestal about a vey misinterpreted piece of art. I am against the oppression of all people, like you. I just think it was a little misinterpretation.

We have been nasty. Sorry. It's misplaced. You are right, though, this is what forums are about.

Suziemay wrote:

meme is entitled to her opinion, you don't have to agree. You also don't have to be mean.

I'm sorry you feel this way, meme. For some reason this song doesn't offend me, but there definitely are songs out there that would break my heart if PJ ever covered/collaborated with others on. Like that Black Eyed Peas humps and lumps song :fp:

nevermind...poinltess...I retract... :-)

meme wrote:

I don't get it. How can it have nothing to do with women? It's as if someone said "nigger" and pretended it had nothing to do with race.

Woman is the nigger of the world...

Damn that racist bitch Lennon.

meme wrote:

Where did I say that? And didn't you just do that to me? Define me by the group I fit into?

It's your actions, not your words. So technically yes, you did not say it. And no, I didn't just do that you, I just observed your actions.

meme wrote:

Anyway, I very much thank the people who took the time to make reasoned arguments pro or con my original post. For what it's worth, my disappointment was put into perspective.

you have every right to feel and think as you like and want...
i think you dont have to think this whole thing to much,i dont agree with you in this,
but i respect yur opinion and ill fight for your right to have the chance to express it..

i think nothings black and white. Its possible to condemn Jay's lyrics, and its also possible to respect him. Both jay and PJ respect each other, obviously. Otherwise they wouldnt have agreed to do the show, and Jay wouldnt have invited them. And I think they get that. Jay's an undeniable icon and great in hip hop, with multiple albums considered classics and all time greats in the genre of hip hop. He's a big deal for a reason. And on the flip side, I completely agree, hip hop's materialism, sexism, and homophobia is a problem, and we can discuss that and its a legitimate discussion. An ongoing one. But that doesnt take away from the greatness of his work, it just makes it more complex, like all art should be. When his daughter was born not too long ago, jay vowed not to write anymore songs with words that demean women. So obviously its on his mind and he feels like addressing that stuff is important.

Hip hop is offensive and disturbing and over the top at times. But if you label the entire genre that way, and ignore it as a whole, you miss out on some of the most poignant and powerful music of the last 30 years, music which was created by a group of people continually marginalized and ignored. Thats reason enough to listen.

And jays a hip guy. He's into Grizzly Bear, Animal Collective, the XX, Ra Ra Riot. He's flat out said hip hop is boring right now, and the most important music in the world is coming from the indie scene. And in song specifically singles out people like Mos Def and Talib Kweli as being superior lyricists in the rap game no doubt in large part because both create socially aware and politically relevant music.

ok i can't read the whole thread but hopefully someone has kindly informed meme that the bitch in the song is a police dog??


and as for all these people slinging shit at hiphop... i do realize that some of it sticks

but it's not exactly like rock n roll is without it's demons - how would you feel if jay z fans started bitching that they were disappointed in Jay for playing with a band that had "Jeremy.. a song which inspired the columbine massacre"

exactly


it was entertainment and it was entertaining ... 2 songs about a black man getting harassed by the cops...blended together fantastically...

i've still yet to hear from someone WHO WAS THERE that wasn't entertained

meme wrote:

Thank you so much for this. I was wondering about how the birth of his daughter might have influenced him. Very interesting to know about his change of heart.

I don't know hip hop very well, so I would never label the entire genre in any way. If anything I am intrigued by the social themes of marginalization they bring up and you remind me of. My issue had been with that specific word. I still believe words are important, and I cherish my way of relating to music as something deeper than just entertainment. With respect to people who said it's just words... I understand you might not find this one offensive, but would it really be irrelevant to most of you if Pearl Jam sang songs with words upholding values they have fought against all their lives?

Anyway, thanks again.

All words are “just words”; they can only offend you if you let them. I could make up a word right now, and tell you it’s the most disgusting and derogatory word about women ever created. Would that word offend you?

I think you are reading too much in to this. You act like they’ve spent an entire career singing about women’s rights, only to now reverse course. Pearl Jam is just a band, they just make music. I don’t support most of the stuff the band does (politically), but I think they are talented musicians.