I wonder...

2

Comments

  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Cincy, good post there.

    As for polls, I don't trust them. I think they're massaged based on who is presenting them, and I don't think most people who are asked give honest answers.

    (and, in all my years, I have never once been asked to participate in a poll. I find that kind of strange)

    That said, in answer to Speedy - I personally am doing better financially as compared to four years ago, but I will proudly attribute that to my own hard work. I've earned it. But overall, on the countrywide scale? Nope, I haven't seen overall improvement. Many people are still hurting.

    I'm so tired of "image". Smoke and mirrors. Being thought of as "cool, hip". I don't give a fuck what you look like, as long as you step up and not try to blow a lot of hot air up my ass.
  • ComeToTX
    ComeToTX Austin Posts: 8,072
    SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:
    Im serious here..
    I want you Moving Trainers to help me here...

    Seems to me, the nation voted for Obama last election...
    Based on his IMAGE...Correct?
    Not truly based on his accomplishments, but more so based on an image...Im sure you know what I mean.

    Anyway

    Given the State of the nation after 8 years of Bush...
    How has Obama made a difference in the last 4 years?
    What has changed?
    What has improved?
    Economy?
    Unemployment?
    Debt?

    Are we improving under Obama?

    And I am serious.
    Please give me some information.

    Thank You

    I blame Obama for plenty but it's not like 8 years of W and his awful decisions don't have lasting effects. How much money have we wasted in Iraq? Where else could that money have been used here?
    This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    edited August 2012
    inlet13 wrote:
    Polls are pretty meaningless

    I said it in another thread. Polls are only created to manipulate the public. The more you ignore them, the less attached we are to the media throwing out manipulating info...
    Post edited by Jeanwah on
  • inlet13
    inlet13 Posts: 1,979
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    inlet13 wrote:
    Polls are pretty meaningless right now, this has the right idea... incorporating state-based economics into the race, and the model has never been wrong:


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/22/university-of-colorado-pr_n_1822933.html?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D195989

    it says - winner - Mitt Romney.

    Regardless of who wins though, we all lose. They both suck.

    This is the one I was referring to. But it also has every single swing state going to Romney, which as you know, just isn't going to happen.


    I think it's possible he wins every swing state. From what I understand, their model is only saying that because the economic statistics within those swing states sucks so bad right now. The question really is - do you see those economic statistics improving enough to change the results by the election?
    Here's a new demo called "in the fire":

    <object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869&quot;&gt;&lt;/param&gt; <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869&quot; type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    hedonist wrote:
    Cincy, good post there.

    As for polls, I don't trust them. I think they're massaged based on who is presenting them, and I don't think most people who are asked give honest answers.

    (and, in all my years, I have never once been asked to participate in a poll. I find that kind of strange)

    Exactly.
  • SPEEDY MCCREADY
    SPEEDY MCCREADY Posts: 26,942
    ComeToTX wrote:

    I blame Obama for plenty but it's not like 8 years of W and his awful decisions don't have lasting effects. How much money have we wasted in Iraq? Where else could that money have been used here?
    Im not concerned about the 8 years of Bush.
    Im just curious as to what has CHANGED in the 1st 4 years under Obama.

    How about "Obamacare?"

    Is it a good thing?
    Is it a bad thing?
    Are you paying more for insurance? Less? How has Obamacare affected YOU the last 4 years?

    How about unemployment?

    Has Obama done enough?
    Has he done too little?
    Has the nation moved forward?

    The Banking/Housing/Foreclosure/Property value debacle?
    Are we recovering?
    Are we the same?
    Has progress been made to clean up this mess?

    As a nation are we stronger than we were 4 years ago?
    If so, why do you think that?
    If not, why do you think that?

    Just looking for peoples views...
    Take me piece by piece.....
    Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
  • DS1119
    DS1119 Posts: 33,497
    Jeanwah wrote:
    hedonist wrote:
    Cincy, good post there.

    As for polls, I don't trust them. I think they're massaged based on who is presenting them, and I don't think most people who are asked give honest answers.

    (and, in all my years, I have never once been asked to participate in a poll. I find that kind of strange)

    Exactly.


    The US population is roughly 314,200,000...I wouldn't look into the issue that you haven't been asked to participate in a poll too deeply. :lol:
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:
    Im not concerned about the 8 years of Bush.
    Im just curious as to what has CHANGED in the 1st 4 years under Obama.

    How about "Obamacare?"

    Is it a good thing?
    Is it a bad thing?
    Are you paying more for insurance? Less? How has Obamacare affected YOU the last 4 years?

    How about unemployment?

    Has Obama done enough?
    Has he done too little?
    Has the nation moved forward?

    The Banking/Housing/Foreclosure/Property value debacle?
    Are we recovering?
    Are we the same?
    Has progress been made to clean up this mess?

    As a nation are we stronger than we were 4 years ago?
    If so, why do you think that?
    If not, why do you think that?

    Just looking for peoples views...

    I think too many people overlook the fact that Obama is nothing but a scapegoat for the system. Nothing really ever changes in a corrupt system, just a different head to blame while the system keeps operating the machine. If Congress refuses to change things, nothing changes, regardless of the head we're looking at. It's not up to Obama so you people who are distracted with "What's he done?" are wasting your time. Look beyond him to who's really in charge. (the machine)
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    DS1119 wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    hedonist wrote:
    Cincy, good post there.

    As for polls, I don't trust them. I think they're massaged based on who is presenting them, and I don't think most people who are asked give honest answers.

    (and, in all my years, I have never once been asked to participate in a poll. I find that kind of strange)

    Exactly.


    The US population is roughly 314,200,000...I wouldn't look into the issue that you haven't been asked to participate in a poll too deeply. :lol:
    Not looking into it necessarily deeply, but just from a logical and mathematical perspective. Doesn't make sense.
  • SPEEDY MCCREADY
    SPEEDY MCCREADY Posts: 26,942
    Jeanwah wrote:

    I think too many people overlook the fact that Obama is nothing but a scapegoat for the system. Nothing really ever changes in a corrupt system, just a different head to blame while the system keeps operating the machine. If Congress refuses to change things, nothing changes, regardless of the head we're looking at. It's not up to Obama so you people who are distracted with "What's he done?" are wasting your time. Look beyond him to who's really in charge. (the machine)
    Maybe I am wasting my time asking people for their views..
    Maybe I am not...

    But thanks for your opinion.
    Take me piece by piece.....
    Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:
    Im serious here..
    I want you Moving Trainers to help me here...

    Seems to me, the nation voted for Obama last election...
    Based on his IMAGE...Correct?
    Not truly based on his accomplishments, but more so based on an image...Im sure you know what I mean.

    Anyway

    Given the State of the nation after 8 years of Bush...
    How has Obama made a difference in the last 4 years?
    What has changed?
    What has improved?
    Economy?
    Unemployment?
    Debt?

    Are we improving under Obama?

    And I am serious.
    Please give me some information.

    Thank You


    The situational questions you ask will differ for a lot of people. What it boils down to, and will always boil down to until something changes is...the possibility of the other guy winning clouds judgement.

    You will never get an accurate answer from party loyalists on what their life is like now vs 4 years ago. People measure based on a theory that is almost immeasurable. They try to convince themselves that it would have been worse if Obama wasn't the president. And vice versa...people who have benefited from Obama being president but are party loyalists will knit pick ways in which their life is worse because of him and support a guy they normally wouldn't.

    Strange thing, this two party system. If you can get democrats and republicans to honestly answer those questions on any sort of large scale, we would all be independents and we would all be better off.

    Me, my life isn't markedly better or worse. Because the housing market crashed I got a great deal on my first home. That is certainly better for me. Because the FED has kept interest rates low for an extended period I have a great rate as well. But while all this happens the dollar in my pocket loses value quickly.

    I would say that most of our lives will change drastically no matter who is elected...thanks QE, thanks central banking for inflating a new bubble, thanks derivatives, thanks greedy fuckers who couldn't just play by the rules, thanks bailouts for making people find ways around the rules without any real risk, thanks redundant departments and programs, thanks ignorance on what really matters and voting on single, silly issues...Thanks federal debt crisis created by big spenders and exponentially made worse by those thinking you can borrow and spend your way out of debt...All of those things have led us to a financial cliff. I have said it before, but going over it at 30 mph or 60 you still explode at the bottom.

    So get your pop corn ready, sit back and watch the morons argue over the kinds of clothes each candidate wears and make voting decisions based on who they would rather have a beer with vote for people who's only real goal is to get the job, not so much do the job...

    but none of that really has much to do with the price of tea in china. just got ranting and didn't want to stop
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • inlet13
    inlet13 Posts: 1,979
    Jeanwah wrote:
    SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:
    Im not concerned about the 8 years of Bush.
    Im just curious as to what has CHANGED in the 1st 4 years under Obama.

    How about "Obamacare?"

    Is it a good thing?
    Is it a bad thing?
    Are you paying more for insurance? Less? How has Obamacare affected YOU the last 4 years?

    How about unemployment?

    Has Obama done enough?
    Has he done too little?
    Has the nation moved forward?

    The Banking/Housing/Foreclosure/Property value debacle?
    Are we recovering?
    Are we the same?
    Has progress been made to clean up this mess?

    As a nation are we stronger than we were 4 years ago?
    If so, why do you think that?
    If not, why do you think that?

    Just looking for peoples views...

    I think too many people overlook the fact that Obama is nothing but a scapegoat for the system. Nothing really ever changes in a corrupt system, just a different head to blame while the system keeps operating the machine. If Congress refuses to change things, nothing changes, regardless of the head we're looking at. It's not up to Obama so you people who are distracted with "What's he done?" are wasting your time. Look beyond him to who's really in charge. (the machine)

    I agree in some ways that the President is kinda a puppet. That's why I dig this picture so much:

    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://s1.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/%3Fm%3D02%26d%3D20120822%26t%3D2%26i%3D644801314%26w%3D%26fh%3D%26fw%3D%26ll%3D600%26pl%3D390%26r%3D2012-08-22T031510Z_08_GM1E88M04VM01_RTRRPP_0_USA-CAMPAIGN-OBAMA&imgrefurl=http://www.reuters.com/news/pictures/slideshow?articleId%3DUSRTR370ML&h=390&w=597&sz=24&tbnid=JuEMnfd2oxB_GM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=138&zoom=1&usg=__gmkc-D_RagK3u3oEbhZO3Y_9NGM=&docid=0hiGMT4b7sSF9M&sa=X&ei=AlE2UMDCOuXu0gHNqoHQCA&ved=0CGkQ9QEwAg&dur=227
    Here's a new demo called "in the fire":

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  • DS1119
    DS1119 Posts: 33,497
    hedonist wrote:
    Not looking into it necessarily deeply, but just from a logical and mathematical perspective. Doesn't make sense.


    How so? I mean I have been polled. I also did grow up in the hometown of the Zogby Group but with these massive amounts of numbers why is that weird?
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    DS1119 wrote:
    hedonist wrote:
    Not looking into it necessarily deeply, but just from a logical and mathematical perspective. Doesn't make sense.


    How so? I mean I have been polled. I also did grow up in the hometown of the Zogby Group but with these massive amounts of numbers why is that weird?
    Just saying that with all of these polls constantly happening, and my being alive lo these many years and living in a huge metropolis...like I said, it doesn't add up.

    It's not like I WANT it, just saying that the odds are a little...odd.
  • DS1119
    DS1119 Posts: 33,497
    hedonist wrote:
    DS1119 wrote:
    hedonist wrote:
    Not looking into it necessarily deeply, but just from a logical and mathematical perspective. Doesn't make sense.


    How so? I mean I have been polled. I also did grow up in the hometown of the Zogby Group but with these massive amounts of numbers why is that weird?
    Just saying that with all of these polls constantly happening, and my being alive lo these many years and living in a huge metropolis...like I said, it doesn't add up.

    It's not like I WANT it, just saying that the odds are a little...odd.

    If you look at the polls they are usually dealing with sample sizes in the thousands. The US population is well over a quarter billion. I frankly don;t find it weird. I've actually even declined being polled before. Again, perhaps that I grew up near the Zogby Group and now live in Albany but it is what it is.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,880
    Speaking of Obama...

    http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/23/news/ec ... hpt=hp_bn3

    And I think that means they need to update the list from this article...

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/22/tech/web/ ... hpt=hp_bn5
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Jeanwah wrote:
    SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:
    Im not concerned about the 8 years of Bush.
    Im just curious as to what has CHANGED in the 1st 4 years under Obama.

    How about "Obamacare?"

    Is it a good thing?
    Is it a bad thing?
    Are you paying more for insurance? Less? How has Obamacare affected YOU the last 4 years?

    How about unemployment?

    Has Obama done enough?
    Has he done too little?
    Has the nation moved forward?

    The Banking/Housing/Foreclosure/Property value debacle?
    Are we recovering?
    Are we the same?
    Has progress been made to clean up this mess?

    As a nation are we stronger than we were 4 years ago?
    If so, why do you think that?
    If not, why do you think that?

    Just looking for peoples views...

    I think too many people overlook the fact that Obama is nothing but a scapegoat for the system. Nothing really ever changes in a corrupt system, just a different head to blame while the system keeps operating the machine. If Congress refuses to change things, nothing changes, regardless of the head we're looking at. It's not up to Obama so you people who are distracted with "What's he done?" are wasting your time. Look beyond him to who's really in charge. (the machine)

    so..was Bush Regan or Clinton all scapegoats for the system ? I agree that it is very possible that any president is a puppet for the real power in this country, I find it odd that Obama is a figure head and Bush was an evil mastermind :problem: all that being said tho I agree with you to a point but I also "think"...(dangerous word) every elected president has a chance and the ability to make things happen so it can't all be blammed on the man behind the curtin.

    Godfather.
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,766
    Godfather. wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:
    Im not concerned about the 8 years of Bush.
    Im just curious as to what has CHANGED in the 1st 4 years under Obama.

    How about "Obamacare?"

    Is it a good thing?
    Is it a bad thing?
    Are you paying more for insurance? Less? How has Obamacare affected YOU the last 4 years?

    How about unemployment?

    Has Obama done enough?
    Has he done too little?
    Has the nation moved forward?

    The Banking/Housing/Foreclosure/Property value debacle?
    Are we recovering?
    Are we the same?
    Has progress been made to clean up this mess?

    As a nation are we stronger than we were 4 years ago?
    If so, why do you think that?
    If not, why do you think that?

    Just looking for peoples views...

    I think too many people overlook the fact that Obama is nothing but a scapegoat for the system. Nothing really ever changes in a corrupt system, just a different head to blame while the system keeps operating the machine. If Congress refuses to change things, nothing changes, regardless of the head we're looking at. It's not up to Obama so you people who are distracted with "What's he done?" are wasting your time. Look beyond him to who's really in charge. (the machine)

    so..was Bush Regan or Clinton all scapegoats for the system ? I agree that it is very possible that any president is a puppet for the real power in this country, I find it odd that Obama is a figure head and Bush was an evil mastermind :problem: all that being said tho I agree with you to a point but I also "think"...(dangerous word) every elected president has a chance and the ability to make things happen so it can't all be blammed on the man behind the curtin.

    Godfather.
    true, BUT it does require a measure of cooperation from Congress for ANYTHING to change.

    Clinton as able to compromise and get things done with many members of the legislative branch. So much so that we actually got to a point of budget SURPLUS!!!!! Instead of keeping it going and having a "rainy day fund" ( like Ohio had for years before this mess we're in now) Mr Bush chose to give that shit back. To the countrie's detriment.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

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    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,405
    i wonder....

    how romney will fare in the debates...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • inlet13
    inlet13 Posts: 1,979
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    i wonder....

    how romney will fare in the debates...


    There aren't any. There are however, scripted speech sessions.

    The whole thing is a joke.
    Here's a new demo called "in the fire":

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