Palm Muting?

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  • DewieCox
    DewieCox Posts: 11,432
    rollings wrote:
    DewieCox wrote:
    rollings wrote:
    I was playing today and noticed for the first time how much muting I do with the left hand.

    am I cheating?

    does it matter?

    There are certain instances where I feel like that's the appropriate guitar move, but it's kind of a different thing from palm muting.

    it's different,
    but how?

    I use fret hand mutes for real abrupt stops in songs, or some transitional chunka chunkas, the heavy guitar slashes in Radiohead's Creep for instance.

    Palm muting is with the pick hand for maybe a more subdued chord progression or maybe a more percussive attack on the strings.

    Both are great tools to change up the dynamics or add a little nuance to dress up a song a bit.
  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    rollings wrote:
    DewieCox wrote:
    rollings wrote:
    I was playing today and noticed for the first time how much muting I do with the left hand.

    am I cheating?

    does it matter?

    There are certain instances where I feel like that's the appropriate guitar move, but it's kind of a different thing from palm muting.

    it's different,
    but how?

    sounds like you are talking about playing notes like this (the X notes):
    7---7---X--X----
    7---7---X--X----
    5---5

    Those are just regular old muted strings, not palm muted strings.

    The difference is, usually, that a regular old X'd out muted string pretty much sound like nothing but "scratch scratch" ... no real note tone. if anything, maybe some harmonic, but really just muted scratch noise. A PALM mute is typically used to DAMPEN the NOTE, but not totally stop it from playing.

    The regular fret-hand mute is a technique that actually does get used a lot in rock, but i couldn't think of a great example off the top of my head ... maybe one of riffs in Glorified G ...
    actually, the most clear example to me (off the top of head) would be Boston - "Foreplay\Longtime" ... the chorus of the Longtime part ("taking my time, moving along" ...etc) ... all those "non"-notes in between strums are regular fret-hand mutes.

    There definitely is a difference, though maybe a fairly subtle one if you are just learning.
    ?helps\not helps?



    oh.
    the


    e-17-17-x-x-x-17-17-x-x-x
    b
    g-14-14-x-x-x-14-14-x-x-x

    part of Animal, as well. (after the chorus, i thinks)
    also, Everclear - Santa Monica, after the intro, he starts muting in between almost every chord.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • rollings
    rollings unknown Posts: 7,127
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    rollings wrote:
    DewieCox wrote:
    There are certain instances where I feel like that's the appropriate guitar move, but it's kind of a different thing from palm muting.

    it's different,
    but how?

    sounds like you are talking about playing notes like this (the X notes):
    7---7---X--X----
    7---7---X--X----
    5---5

    Those are just regular old muted strings, not palm muted strings.

    The difference is, usually, that a regular old X'd out muted string pretty much sound like nothing but "scratch scratch" ... no real note tone. if anything, maybe some harmonic, but really just muted scratch noise. A PALM mute is typically used to DAMPEN the NOTE, but not totally stop it from playing.

    The regular fret-hand mute is a technique that actually does get used a lot in rock, but i couldn't think of a great example off the top of my head ... maybe one of riffs in Glorified G ...
    actually, the most clear example to me (off the top of head) would be Boston - "Foreplay\Longtime" ... the chorus of the Longtime part ("taking my time, moving along" ...etc) ... all those "non"-notes in between strums are regular fret-hand mutes.

    There definitely is a difference, though maybe a fairly subtle one if you are just learning.
    ?helps\not helps?

    oh.
    the

    e-17-17-x-x-x-17-17-x-x-x
    b
    g-14-14-x-x-x-14-14-x-x-x

    part of Animal, as well. (after the chorus, i thinks)
    also, Everclear - Santa Monica, after the intro, he starts muting in between almost every chord.

    I know what you're saying by the x'ed out muted strings in a chord structure,
    but that's not what I mean,

    I do mean the actual "stopping short" of the notes/strings instead of letting them ring full out.

    Until I read that this "technique" had an actual name via this thread, I didn't pay too much attention to it.

    Having read this thread and therefore actually paying attention :mrgreen: I discovered that I do most of the muting with the left hand. whether is be the extra fingers, the parts of the fingers not holding down the strings, or whatever left-over hand part is available :wtf:

    If the same "effect" is accomplished (the note/notes are abrubtly stopped short) what is the difference then between the left hand smoosh or the right hand palm mute technique?

    Or is there something more sound-wise to be achieved by the "palm mute" ...besides just the muting itself?
  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    rollings wrote:
    Having read this thread and therefore actually paying attention :mrgreen: I discovered that I do most of the muting with the left hand. whether is be the extra fingers, the parts of the fingers not holding down the strings, or whatever left-over hand part is available :wtf:

    I'm having trouble duplicating the technique you claim here.
    There is a reason people generally use palm muting for one thing,
    and fret-hand muting for another.

    I'm not saying it's not possible to accomplish a palm-mute-"like" mute with the fret-hand,
    but i wasn't successful (on an acoustic, this morning) doing so.

    If you can do it, and it works for you, and the sound you are going for, then awesome.

    I would say, from the standpoint of a technician, it is an imperfect technique, just because (as you plainly state) it MUST vary inherently based on whatever position your fretting hand currently is in. Thus it makes it very hard for one to perfect this assumed technique or even to implement it with regular success (i would dare to assume).

    Palm muting is fairly easy to accomplish once your hand, through the natural process of muscle memory, begins to learn the right amount pressure & angle of attack on the strings.

    But again, if you found a different way, kudos!
    :D

    EDIT:
    rollings wrote:
    Or is there something more sound-wise to be achieved by the "palm mute" ...besides just the muting itself?

    just caught this part of your post.
    this indicates to me that you may, in fact, not yet have caught the "subtle" difference between a fret-hand mute and a palm mute. The short answer to the above question is, YES, there is a difference to the palm mute, "besides just the muting".

    A palm mute (as has, i believe, already been stated by others) is NOT a "mute" in the strictest sense. For example, the fret-hand mute TRULY mutes the string. NO audible TONE can be discerned, only noise (something other than a scale tone).

    By contrast with an actual mute, a palm "mute" is a DAMPENING of the resonating tone, not a total elimination or "muting" of that tone.

    Part of the reason i had trouble duplicating the technique you described was because, putting a finger or hand-portion in front of your chord (closer towards the bridge than your fretted finger) inherently results in adding harmonic overtones to the chord you are playing. Certainly not a mute, and not a palm-"mute" effect either.

    If you truly are pulling off a palm-mute like mute with your fret hand, i salute you.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • rollings
    rollings unknown Posts: 7,127
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    rollings wrote:
    Having read this thread and therefore actually paying attention :mrgreen: I discovered that I do most of the muting with the left hand. whether is be the extra fingers, the parts of the fingers not holding down the strings, or whatever left-over hand part is available :wtf:

    I'm having trouble duplicating the technique you claim here.
    There is a reason people generally use palm muting for one thing,
    and fret-hand muting for another.

    I'm not saying it's not possible to accomplish a palm-mute-"like" mute with the fret-hand,
    but i wasn't successful (on an acoustic, this morning) doing so.

    If you can do it, and it works for you, and the sound you are going for, then awesome.

    I would say, from the standpoint of a technician, it is an imperfect technique, just because (as you plainly state) it MUST vary inherently based on whatever position your fretting hand currently is in. Thus it makes it very hard for one to perfect this assumed technique or even to implement it with regular success (i would dare to assume).

    Palm muting is fairly easy to accomplish once your hand, through the natural process of muscle memory, begins to learn the right amount pressure & angle of attack on the strings.

    But again, if you found a different way, kudos!
    :D

    EDIT:
    rollings wrote:
    Or is there something more sound-wise to be achieved by the "palm mute" ...besides just the muting itself?

    just caught this part of your post.
    this indicates to me that you may, in fact, not yet have caught the "subtle" difference between a fret-hand mute and a palm mute. The short answer to the above question is, YES, there is a difference to the palm mute, "besides just the muting".

    A palm mute (as has, i believe, already been stated by others) is NOT a "mute" in the strictest sense. For example, the fret-hand mute TRULY mutes the string. NO audible TONE can be discerned, only noise (something other than a scale tone).

    By contrast with an actual mute, a palm "mute" is a DAMPENING of the resonating tone, not a total elimination or "muting" of that tone.

    Part of the reason i had trouble duplicating the technique you described was because, putting a finger or hand-portion in front of your chord (closer towards the bridge than your fretted finger) inherently results in adding harmonic overtones to the chord you are playing. Certainly not a mute, and not a palm-"mute" effect either.

    If you truly are pulling off a palm-mute like mute with your fret hand, i salute you.

    update:

    Last night I played a song where I was clearly karate chopping the chords off with the right hand.

    So now I think I understand completely the difference between the two.

    It's funny that not until I was actually DOING it, could I then realize that, "oh, yeah...THIS".

    Without the guitar in hand and a song requiring "palm muting" being played.....I couldn't even say for certain whether I did this technique or not, as strange as that may sound.

    and yes, like you said there's gotta to be as many variations on the technique as there are guitar hands, guitar players, and just what exactly a certain song and/or its version requires.

    For discussion sake, I paid more attention to the fret hand mute thing, and the mute comes mainly from just the lifting of the fingers off the chord or note(s) position but not off the strings themselves. You know what I mean?
    and again....as the song requires. :mrgreen:

    Thank you
  • DriftingByTheStorm
    DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    rollings wrote:
    I paid more attention to the fret hand mute thing, and the mute comes mainly from just the lifting of the fingers off the chord or note(s) position but not off the strings themselves.

    Yes.
    that is pretty much the text book definition of a normal "X" (as seen in tab) muted string (a fret hand mute). You are lifting your fretted hand just enough to dampen the string's vibration, but not far enough off the string to allow any harmonics to ring.
    :D

    seems like you got it figured out now.
    woop woop.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • rollings
    rollings unknown Posts: 7,127
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    rollings wrote:
    I paid more attention to the fret hand mute thing, and the mute comes mainly from just the lifting of the fingers off the chord or note(s) position but not off the strings themselves.

    Yes.
    that is pretty much the text book definition of a normal "X" (as seen in tab) muted string (a fret hand mute). You are lifting your fretted hand just enough to dampen the string's vibration, but not far enough off the string to allow any harmonics to ring.
    :D

    seems like you got it figured out now.
    woop woop.

    yes, I think so too. Thank you. :mrgreen:
    woop woop

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