Iranians, we will never bomb your country - We Love You

inmytree wrote:

oh christ...here we go again...

:fp:

I've encountered these tactics before with defenders of Israel. They try to bore and/frustrate their opponent into submission with convoluted hypotheticals and semantics. It's the same trick many lawyers use. Yosi's training to be a lawyer, so it makes sense that he'd engage in this tedious nonsense.


Though what I do find amusing is that they describe it as 'reasoned debate', whereas it's clearly nothing but evasion and equivocation.

http://electronicintifada.net/content/d ... onism/5740

Disengaging from Zionism
Issa Mikel, The Electronic Intifada, 13 September 2005

'...A closer look at the historical record reveals that, far from being a bastardization of Zionism, the maximalist colonization of the West Bank and Gaza is part and parcel of the Zionist project.

The desire for control over all of historic Palestine has been shared by most Zionist leaders for over a century. We need not delve into the details and evolution of thinking on the question of Israel’s borders, as there has been a good deal of disagreement over a wide variety of questions (such as the nature and pace of settlement, relations with the British during the Mandate, and how properly to “deal” with the indigenous Palestinian Arab population). But from Herzl, Ben Gurion, and Weizmann, to Begin, Sharon, and Barak, expansionism, and even the idea of forcible population transfer, has been a hallmark of the Zionist movement.

During the time of the British Mandate, David Ben Gurion viewed plans for a Jewish state in part of Palestine as merely a precursor to “the ingathering of the exiles in all of Palestine” (see ”Revisiting the UNGA Partition Resolution” by Walid Khalidi.) In a similar vein, Chaim Weizmann wrote of proposals to partition Palestine developed in the 1930s that, “In the course of time we shall expand to the whole country … this is only an arrangement for the next 15-30 years” (see “Zionism and Its Impact,” by Ann M. Lesch). Thus, even when the early Zionist leadership expressed a grudging willingness to settle for less than the whole of Palestine for the state of Israel, their moves were part a strategy to obtain as much land as they could in anticipation of later expansion. They were not “compromising” in any real sense.

Another telling statement is that of Menachem Begin upon winning the 1977 Israeli election, when he proclaimed in reference to the territories occupied in 1967, “What occupied territories? These are liberated territories!” Later, even as Begin negotiated with Egyptian President Anwar Al-Sadat over the Sinai Peninsula, he staunchly refused to budge on the question of the West Bank and Gaza (and the Syrian Golan Heights), where settlements were already expanding. And let us not forget the now famous quotation by the former Israeli general and defense minister Moshe Dayan that Israel should make it clear to the Palestinians that “we have no solution, you shall continue to live like dogs, and whoever wishes may leave.”

More recently, as the Oslo process slouched toward its violent end, the colonial expansion under both Labor and Likud Ministers — Rabin, Peres, Netanyahu, Barak, and Sharon — reached a fever pitch. Throughout the last century, the Zionist movement has made abundantly clear their designs on Palestine through these and countless other words and deeds.

Moreover, the Zionist leadership does not stand alone in its maximalist claims. Though a majority of Israelis voiced support for the “disengagement,” the will to remove the colonies of the West Bank is drastically weaker. Expansionism in Israel arises from complex socio-political phenomena and has a long, tangled history. And however much some adherents of Zionism may object to control over the West Bank, we ignore the harsh realities of Zionism at our own risk.

...One who supports an ideology of racism and militarist expansionism cannot ignore the suffering that results. Despite the protestations of the Zionist left that Zionism should be taken back to its pure, just roots, Zionism is a captive of its own tragic flaws. There is no such thing as a "just Zionism," just as there is no such thing as a "just white supremacism" or "just colonialism." A system that enshrines bigotry, that establishes one people as the chosen people of a state, whatever the putative justifications, cannot but discriminate and oppress.

But just as the racism of the Zionism system generates oppression, its claims to justice and democracy cannot be ignored either, especially by those who are the staunchest supporters of bigotry and privilege. A system that makes racist claims will be called upon to be racist, while a system that claims to be just and democratic will be called upon to be just and democratic. From Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, to the Palestinian citizens of Israel, to the Druze, to the Ethiopian Jews, the downtrodden have and will continue to come knocking on the door of the Israeli state to cash in on the promises it has made. And as their calls grow louder, Zionism's contradictions will grow all the more apparent. Like ideas, people have an uncanny way of refusing to disappear.

keeponrockin wrote:

Tom K wrote:

jb306534 wrote:

Israel is the one country in the middle east that shares our US values and beliefs.

They DO NOT share my values...

Sincerely,
Citizen of the US

Seconded.

Third