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Daughter Violins(ence)?

dstnd2rmbrdstnd2rmbr Posts: 43
edited April 2012 in The Porch
I was having a conversation the other night with a friend of mine who was talking about commonly misheard lyrics in songs.

He said that he was shocked to hear that in "Daughter" the line is

"Young girl...violence...center of her own attention".

rather than

"Young girl...violins...center of her own attention".

I told him that I too think that the key word is Violins.

So i deferred to the website and the Vs. booklet and both places list the lyric as

"Young girl...violins(ence)...center of her own attention"



I though I read something sometime ago that said that "Violins" was used as a play on words or something.

Can someone shed some light on this for me? I want to be able to give him a better answer than "hmmm".

Thanks
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Comments

  • BrainOfMABrainOfMA Posts: 553
    Thanks for sharing. i've never noticed this before
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  • slightofjeffslightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    Ed plays with language like this all the time. It one of the reasons I love his songwriting. Another example is from "I Am Mine."

    He toggles between the following:

    "All the innocents lost at one time"

    and "All the innocence lost at one time."

    Means two slightly different things.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • marcosmarcos Posts: 2,112
    That's always been one of the things I liked most about this band is that things are somewhat open to interpretation. I think it says something about yourself as to what you hear at the time you listen to it. And I like that they leave things like that alone. Violins & violence are a perfect example, Rats is another one where you're like what am I hearing him describe and how does this relate to my point of view on the topic.
  • slightofjeffslightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    Ed usually sings "violins," I think. The one live version where he definitely sings a "violence" is the SNL version from 1994, just a few days after Kurt Cobain offed himself. It's pronounced.

    "Young girl, vi-o-LENSSSSSE."
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • BeerBaronBeerBaron Toronto-ish Posts: 4,100
    Thanks for posting this. I had always wondered which it was but have never gone back to the liner notes to look...
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  • Jeremys SpokenJeremys Spoken Posts: 7,578
    Im sure violins is a play on violence.
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  • tvismyfriendtvismyfriend Posts: 2,118
    I've always thought that the wording there was brilliant, seeing as how the song is about slapping kids with ADD. Violins are something you got to kind of sit down and put effort into learning. Also, the "ence" kind of foreshadows the fact that mommy slaps her around.
  • Pamela0222Pamela0222 Posts: 1,544
    Wow! That is brilliant, makes you have to think about what the word(s) mean to you.
    The thing I like most about time is that it's not real. It's all in the head. Sure, it's a useful trick to use if you want to meet someone at a specific place in the universe and have tea or coffee- but that's all it is- a trick. There is no such thing as the past. It exists only in the memory. There is no such thing as the future. It exists only in our imagination. If our watches were truly accurate, the only thing they would ever say is "Now". That's what time it is. It's "Now". - Damien Echols
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,058
    Listening to various bootlegs I've distinctly heard both violence, violins as well as a kind of slur between the two. Probably depends on how Ed's feeling on a particular night.
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  • Lost In OhioLost In Ohio Posts: 7,131
    slightofjeff wrote:
    Ed plays with language like this all the time. It one of the reasons I love his songwriting. Another example is from "I Am Mine."

    He toggles between the following:

    "All the innocents lost at one time"

    and "All the innocence lost at one time."

    Means two slightly different things.


    Daughter: She SHOULD be playing violins, when she's really being faced with violence. The presence of violence means no more violins.



    The official lyrics to I Am Mine:

    first time:

    And the feeling, it gets left behind
    All the innocence lost at one time
    Significant, behind the eyes
    There's no need to hide...
    We're safe tonight



    last times:

    And the meaning, it gets left behind
    All the innocents lost at one time
    Significant, behind the eyes
    There's no need to hide...
    We're safe tonight

    And the feelings that get left behind
    All the innocents broken with lies
    Significance, between the lines
    (We may need to hide)

    And the meanings that get left behind
    All the innocents lost at one time
    We're all different behind the eyes
    There's no need to hide




    That innocence/innocents makes total sense, considering the song is about the loss of life at Roskilde. When the innocent life was lost, the lack of innocence went out the window.
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  • BeerBaronBeerBaron Toronto-ish Posts: 4,100
    Lost In Ohio wrote:
    considering the song is about the loss of life at Roskilde. When the innocent life was lost, the lack of innocence went out the window.
    It is? That's the first time I have heard that theory. Did Ed mention this at some point?
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  • TJ25487TJ25487 Posts: 1,495
    I always thought it was violins and that is what I tell myself that I hear so if he ever says violence then I'm sure I won't catch it but it makes sense. Let's just give props to this song while we're here as it is a masterpiece no matter how you slice it.
  • CosmoCramerCosmoCramer Posts: 572
    from pearljam.com

    http://www.pearljam.com/song/daughter
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  • papa_pearls_jam.pj20papa_pearls_jam.pj20 Chicago USA Posts: 2,142
    I think it refers to the domestic violence of a family or relationship, which is not always a horrible climate, but can at times be filled with good times, then exploded with outbursts of bad...like the sound of violins (peace) interrupted abruptly by the fury of violence (conflict), and how blurry the lines that divide the two are, based on largely on the perspective of the victim or the abuser.

    "Don't call me 'daughter', Not fit to be". Powerful statement.
    Posimists. Fuck the pessimists...fuck'em.
  • Lost In OhioLost In Ohio Posts: 7,131
    BeerBaron wrote:
    Lost In Ohio wrote:
    considering the song is about the loss of life at Roskilde. When the innocent life was lost, the lack of innocence went out the window.
    It is? That's the first time I have heard that theory. Did Ed mention this at some point?

    Eddie wrote "I Am Mine" in the hotel room the day of the Virginia Beach concert.

    During the 2003 "Live At The Garden" DVD (and other times), Ed's mentioned the song is about the feeling of safety and being safe.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Mine
    Presidential Advice from President-Elect Mike McCready: "Are you getting something out of this all encompassing trip?"
  • PushinPaintPushinPaint Posts: 434
    I could never tell if it was "Dont call me, Daughter. Not fit to" or "Don't call me 'daughter', not fit to"

    then the line about "the picture kept will remind me." As if the parent had the picture, which made me think it was "dont call me, daughter". Maybe i'm way off here
  • drummerboy_73drummerboy_73 Las Vegas, NV Posts: 2,011
    Some great insight and theories here, let me throw one out - I think Ed just has a bad mumbling habit and needs to work on his phonetic skills... :shock:







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  • Jeremys SpokenJeremys Spoken Posts: 7,578
    drummerboy_73 wrote:
    Some great insight and theories here, let me throw one out - I think Ed just has a bad mumbling habit and needs to work on his phonetic skills... :shock:







    :lol:
    Your insight was pretty amazing.
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  • SmellymanSmellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    Always liked..... PaintED big .... turnED into....one of his enemies......
  • doomponydoompony Wellington, NZ Posts: 4,501
    i have always assumed that if it was violins, it was like sad music... but that he meant for it to be either/or violins or violence

    and he's singing don't call me daughter.. from the child's perspective.

    :mrgreen:



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  • papa_pearls_jam.pj20papa_pearls_jam.pj20 Chicago USA Posts: 2,142
    Smellyman wrote:
    Always liked..... PaintED big .... turnED into....one of his enemies......

    Even better, I like it when he sings it live, "one of his fucking enemies".

    Blood's an amazing song.
    Posimists. Fuck the pessimists...fuck'em.
  • vital5vital5 Posts: 5,486
    This change in lyrics as someone else has said is a reason I love this band!

    Just hearing line changes from demo to studio versions is amazing song writing talents... There's even a song on PJ20 that doesn't even really have lyrics and is awesome... You can see the start of lyrical sounds put in and I guess the lyrics come later...

    With the violins(ence) thing, I have thought they both fit well, but they may have played the violins card for the censors... If a song had violent themes back in the 90's, maybe the radio stations wouldn't have played it or not been liked by the record company or something... To confuse the censors and also to confuse listeners so they open their minds to different meanings or how one word can change something... I mean all these theories are just that... No one knows why except the band and a few others I guess...
  • StillHereStillHere Posts: 7,795
    i think its both

    if you look up the lyrics in the music tab, it has it listed as Violins(lence) or something similar to that. (too lazy to go look right now)

    A play on words, right

    I would love to see Ed's original handwritten lyrics, I would bet he has it written just like that ^^

    One of the best things about this music is the myriad of meaning you can take from one song

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  • vedderfan10vedderfan10 Posts: 2,497
    I think Ed got the idea from that ABC song from the 80's - "When Smokey Sings"...

    "When Smokey sings,
    I hear violins/ence..."

    At least, everyone I knew sang it that way - even when I worked in radio and tv...

    :fp:

    And yes, I have read somewhere as well that the "innocents" in "I am Mine" refers to the people that died at Roskilde and "innocence" means the band lost their innocence when that happened, in terms of it being such a life altering event for them all..they had "pre-Roskilde" Pearl Jam and "post-Roskilde" Pearl Jam, as explained in PJ20...
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