bad student holds shame sign: big fat F for the parents
Comments
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Yes there could be a lot more to this story that we maybe in the dark about. Not saying i would go to these lengths because i've not experienced this kind of failure from them. The worst was a drop from 3.85 to a 3.20 with too much time on Bookface and the Iphone/Ipad and i took them both away also no school parties. The grades shot back upto a 3.91 this last quarter I returned only her Iphone.
What happens if this child's grades improve would the parent's action be justified?
Peace*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)0 -
There comes a time for rebellion a natural needed process.
Each child finds a different age, each child different intensity, different method.
But comes it does.
In my opinion better in high school when at home under your roof
then at college when the dollar is high and the danger greater
or once they are out on their own in the work force then fall back to the nest
feeling failure.
A parent hopefully finds the balance between freedoms and restrictions
respect and authority ... as to not truly mess up a kid's head.
A too strict parent can create an angry suppressed adult who feels
whatever they do is never good enough.... living stressed.
A too lenient parent can create a self absorbed, non achiever seeking self gratification,
thinking life is never good enough, a whole different kind of stress
but both unfulfilled.
Parenting is the knack of knowing your child ...
not knowing what you want them to be and guiding not leading.0 -
Paul Andrews wrote:I feel qualified to judge.
Given a blip of info on this story, with no background, it's so easy for everyone to stick their two cents in and feel justified to judge. Count me out. That's the problem with society; we're all so quick to judge when not given the full story.
No I wouldn't embarrass my kid. But it's not my place to tell someone else how to parent, nor would I like to be judged my parenting skills. There's a lot of problems out there in the world right now, and butting our noses into every single one of them is not worth the angst.Post edited by Jeanwah on0 -
catefrances wrote:Jeanwah wrote:catefrances wrote:
so its ok to humiliate a child in this way? i dont need to know the minutiae of this situation to know humiliating anyone, especially a child, is degrading no matter what the circumstances.
Who am I to judge here? Obviously you feel that it's your right to judge a story based on a few words, where there is no abuse going on. Fine. Get all upset about something you can't do a damn thing about as well as know nothing about it as well. I just don't find this topic worthy of getting upset about when the whole story isn't being told.
why humiliate the kid? is that ever acceptable? to me its not. thats all im saying.
I understand what you're saying. It's not a good thing, but seeing that the article was very short, it's not worth ruffling my feathers about. That's all I'm saying.0 -
Jeanwah wrote:Paul Andrews wrote:I feel qualified to judge.
Given a blip of info on this story, with no background, it's so easy for everyone to stick their two cents in and feel justified to judge. Count me out. That's the problem with society; we're all so quick to judge when not given the full story.
No I wouldn't embarrass my kid. But it's not my place to tell someone else how to parent, nor would I like to be judged my parenting skills. There's a lot of problems out there in the world right now, and butting our noses into every single one of them is not worth the angst.
I agree and disagree.
While it is impossible to judge an entire situation by a small snippet of a media grab, it is easy to judge that snippet. To say we need to know more about this particular situation is not correct. What more do we really need to know - the parent is humiliating his kid in public. If he was out there bashing the kid with a baseball bat would that be a time to judge? You don't humiliate your kid to get results - and risk sending them even further down. The research and real world evidence is conclusive on this. I'm not saying the guy does not have good intentions, but a dose of child psychology 101 would be helpful for this parent in this situation.
Unfortunately this is where the world is failing, we so politically correct that we wash our hands of shithouse parenting examples by saying, 'it's not my place to tell someone how to raise their kids?' Unfortunately when too many people turn a blind eye to things that are profoundly wrong - or even worse - agree with it - our entire society suffers. And the debate over the idiot who shot up his daughter's computer and then posted it on Facebook is a prime example. His actions were immature and stupid and no matter what they all said on talk shows after the fact, that is not how you teach your kids right from wrong.
We turn a blind eye at parents who feed their kids rubbish and raise kids who are morbidly obese; we turn a blind eye to parents who abuse their kids; we turn a blind eye to those who let their kids roam the streets at night; some even turned a blind eye to the sexual abuse that went on in churches and hostels. All of these things not only affect the welfare of those children, but in turn affect the health of society. Now-a-days, the 'expert' is often ignored in favour of an attitude of 'it's my right to do as I wish'. And thanks to the current right-wing anti-academia thrusts, someone who is educated and experienced is seen as 'elitist'.
Sure it is wrong to judge purely on an ignorant opinion - as many in our society do - and I'm not trying to set myself up as the world authority on everything who does no wrong - but an opinion based on tertiary and post graduate education, field experience and being one of the ones who has to try to pick up the pieces in a school of the result of this kind of dumb arse parenting - I'm going to keep judging on matters such as this.0 -
What it comes down to is children's rights ... do they have any?
Are children only an extension of the adults who raise them?
Are their only rights those that break laws concerning heinous acts?
Many don't like the idea of more laws governing choices adults make in raising
their children.
How about establishing more rights, more voice, for those who are under age.
I have known a few teens that certainly could have used a voice in how they
were being raised and the example their adults were setting.
Speaking out, seeking help, runs the risk of that child entering a less than adequate system
that is perhaps not even the lesser evil of the two environments.
Children should stay with their adult counterparts but should have a voice and often
the adults just need a little education and the family a little help.
Its a volatile time ... teen years. Parents are accustomed to calling all the shots, controlling
behavior, molding a person from birth, even for the best parents it's hard to step back
and allow this person to grow to be independent, which includes making mistakes.
That is the hardest, seeing the mistakes made and the consequences they must learn
to be a stable and productive adult. Everyone makes mistakes and learns from them,
parent and child alike.0 -
pandora wrote:What it comes down to is children's rights ... do they have any?
Are children only an extension of the adults who raise them?
Are their only rights those that break laws concerning heinous acts?
Many don't like the idea of more laws governing choices adults make in raising
their children.
How about establishing more rights, more voice, for those who are under age.
I have known a few teens that certainly could have used a voice in how they
were being raised and the example their adults were setting.
Speaking out, seeking help, runs the risk of that child entering a less than adequate system
that is perhaps not even the lesser evil of the two environments.
Children should stay with their adult counterparts but should have a voice and often
the adults just need a little education and the family a little help.
Its a volatile time ... teen years. Parents are accustomed to calling all the shots, controlling
behavior, molding a person from birth, even for the best parents it's hard to step back
and allow this person to grow to be independent, which includes making mistakes.
That is the hardest, seeing the mistakes made and the consequences they must learn
to be a stable and productive adult. Everyone makes mistakes and learns from them,
parent and child alike.
absolutely children have rights...amongst all the other basic rights ALL people have, regardless of age, they have the right not to be humiliated by their parents. they have the right to be respected and theyaahve the right to be protected... even from the grown ups raising them, irrespectively of whether or not they gave birth to them. giving life does not mean owning.
in a way children are an extension of the adults who raise them.. but they are also their own people. and i think this is what the grown ups raising them have the most problem with, forgetting that they themselves were in the same position not all that long ago. there are no peolpe on earth that i respect more than my children.hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say0 -
dittocatefrances wrote:pandora wrote:What it comes down to is children's rights ... do they have any?
Are children only an extension of the adults who raise them?
Are their only rights those that break laws concerning heinous acts?
Many don't like the idea of more laws governing choices adults make in raising
their children.
How about establishing more rights, more voice, for those who are under age.
I have known a few teens that certainly could have used a voice in how they
were being raised and the example their adults were setting.
Speaking out, seeking help, runs the risk of that child entering a less than adequate system
that is perhaps not even the lesser evil of the two environments.
Children should stay with their adult counterparts but should have a voice and often
the adults just need a little education and the family a little help.
Its a volatile time ... teen years. Parents are accustomed to calling all the shots, controlling
behavior, molding a person from birth, even for the best parents it's hard to step back
and allow this person to grow to be independent, which includes making mistakes.
That is the hardest, seeing the mistakes made and the consequences they must learn
to be a stable and productive adult. Everyone makes mistakes and learns from them,
parent and child alike.
absolutely children have rights...amongst all the other basic rights ALL people have, regardless of age, they have the right not to be humiliated by their parents. they have the right to be respected and theyaahve the right to be protected... even from the grown ups raising them, irrespectively of whether or not they gave birth to them. giving life does not mean owning.
in a way children are an extension of the adults who raise them.. but they are also their own people. and i think this is what the grown ups raising them have the most problem with, forgetting that they themselves were in the same position not all that long ago. there are no peolpe on earth that i respect more than my children.0 -
...catefrances wrote:http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8434132/bad-student-holds-shame-sign
Parents of a US schoolboy who came home with a bad report card have forced him to stand on a street corner wearing a sign describing his failures.
Miami boy Michael Bell Jr will spent his spring break holidays holding a sign after he failed three of his classes, local TV station WSVN reported.
"Hey, I want to be a class clown. Is it wrong?" the front of the sign reads.
"I'm in the 7th grade and got 3 F's. Blow your horn if there's something wrong with that," the sign says on the back.
Both of Michael's parents were at the street corner to make sure he is safe.
His father, Michael Bell Sr, describes the punishment as a last resort.
"I don't know any other way, I'm trying to reach him," he said.
"If I don't do anything, he's going to be a statistic and I don't want him to be a statistic."
Who am I to say what is the best way to teach/treat someone else's kid? I mean, yeah, it may not be my methods, but I don't think my methods would apply to everyone.
Basically... I don't know the specific detail of this story... what were the F's in? Algebra or Expressive Dance? U.S. History or Byzantine Philosophy? I don't know the kid... i don't know the parents... I don't know what they've tried and waht hasn't worked. And who knows... maybe the kid is funny. I don't know.Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0 -
Cosmo wrote:
...catefrances wrote:http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8434132/bad-student-holds-shame-sign
Parents of a US schoolboy who came home with a bad report card have forced him to stand on a street corner wearing a sign describing his failures.
Miami boy Michael Bell Jr will spent his spring break holidays holding a sign after he failed three of his classes, local TV station WSVN reported.
"Hey, I want to be a class clown. Is it wrong?" the front of the sign reads.
"I'm in the 7th grade and got 3 F's. Blow your horn if there's something wrong with that," the sign says on the back.
Both of Michael's parents were at the street corner to make sure he is safe.
His father, Michael Bell Sr, describes the punishment as a last resort.
"I don't know any other way, I'm trying to reach him," he said.
"If I don't do anything, he's going to be a statistic and I don't want him to be a statistic."
Who am I to say what is the best way to teach/treat someone else's kid? I mean, yeah, it may not be my methods, but I don't think my methods would apply to everyone.
Basically... I don't know the specific detail of this story... what were the F's in? Algebra or Expressive Dance? U.S. History or Byzantine Philosophy? I don't know the kid... i don't know the parents... I don't know what they've tried and waht hasn't worked. And who knows... maybe the kid is funny. I don't know.
Read Paul's post at the top of the page, he gives an excellent explanation, and as someone who works in the same field as Paul, I wholeheartedly agree.
As far as the specific situation in the OP, I see the father giving people permission to comment on his parenting, since he is using people in the community as unwilling participants in his (unhealthy) parenting. To not comment could even be seen as colluding with something that's hurtful to the child.0 -
I think people, myself included, are sharing what they have learned from their parenting experiences no different than any other subject nor life experience.
Couple this with book learned methods from experts and doctors
which really help a parent cope and set a standard for good care.
The result ...
you have something valuable to share ...
though still an opinion of course.
I feel there are general rules of respect when raising children
no different then how adults interact with other adults.
I've seen and been guilty myself of not always remembering this.
Yesterday on the news it spoke of a 14 year old girl who has bought a rental property in
FL, saved her money, 6,000 and went in on it with her Mom.
I was proud of the young lady!
As the piece closed the Mom pretty much degraded her daughter on national TV
when speaking of the money she will owe for her half of the window repair.
Spoke down to her, 'what don't you get' type attitude,
the girl confused, not really understanding the scope of what she
has gotten herself into.
I felt at that moment like the young girl was property herself,
something no child should ever feel.
It is these rewind moments when if we could stand back and see what bystanders see
of the interaction between child and parent it becomes very clear what is healthy
parenting and what isn't...
just look at the child's face.0 -
Paul Andrews wrote:Jeanwah wrote:Paul Andrews wrote:I feel qualified to judge.
Given a blip of info on this story, with no background, it's so easy for everyone to stick their two cents in and feel justified to judge. Count me out. That's the problem with society; we're all so quick to judge when not given the full story.
No I wouldn't embarrass my kid. But it's not my place to tell someone else how to parent, nor would I like to be judged my parenting skills. There's a lot of problems out there in the world right now, and butting our noses into every single one of them is not worth the angst.
I agree and disagree.
While it is impossible to judge an entire situation by a small snippet of a media grab, it is easy to judge that snippet. To say we need to know more about this particular situation is not correct. What more do we really need to know - the parent is humiliating his kid in public. If he was out there bashing the kid with a baseball bat would that be a time to judge? You don't humiliate your kid to get results - and risk sending them even further down. The research and real world evidence is conclusive on this. I'm not saying the guy does not have good intentions, but a dose of child psychology 101 would be helpful for this parent in this situation.
Unfortunately this is where the world is failing, we so politically correct that we wash our hands of shithouse parenting examples by saying, 'it's not my place to tell someone how to raise their kids?' Unfortunately when too many people turn a blind eye to things that are profoundly wrong - or even worse - agree with it - our entire society suffers. And the debate over the idiot who shot up his daughter's computer and then posted it on Facebook is a prime example. His actions were immature and stupid and no matter what they all said on talk shows after the fact, that is not how you teach your kids right from wrong.
We turn a blind eye at parents who feed their kids rubbish and raise kids who are morbidly obese; we turn a blind eye to parents who abuse their kids; we turn a blind eye to those who let their kids roam the streets at night; some even turned a blind eye to the sexual abuse that went on in churches and hostels. All of these things not only affect the welfare of those children, but in turn affect the health of society. Now-a-days, the 'expert' is often ignored in favour of an attitude of 'it's my right to do as I wish'. And thanks to the current right-wing anti-academia thrusts, someone who is educated and experienced is seen as 'elitist'.
Sure it is wrong to judge purely on an ignorant opinion - as many in our society do - and I'm not trying to set myself up as the world authority on everything who does no wrong - but an opinion based on tertiary and post graduate education, field experience and being one of the ones who has to try to pick up the pieces in a school of the result of this kind of dumb arse parenting - I'm going to keep judging on matters such as this.
Well, you keep on judging then. I certainly don't walk around spouting my credentials to judge anyone and neither should you. Regardless of the situation.0 -
Jeanwah wrote:
Well, you keep on judging then. I certainly don't walk around spouting my credentials to judge anyone and neither should you. Regardless of the situation.
My guess is you do judge in certain situations, like if a parent belted a kid across the face in the grocery store. In that case, no one would fault you for judging. In the OP, this is a situation where I disagree with the parent. I give myself the right to judge in this situation, just like you probably would in my grocery store example.0 -
It's definitely difficult not to judge in certain situations. But in this one, where there's very limited info, I won't. The way I look at life, is to try to live simply, judge less, and accept people for who they are more. Pointing fingers, attempting to control situations, and setting my "right way of living" upon others is not my thing. I've been through enough drama for one lifetime, and getting all riled up about other people's lives isn't worth the energy. Yeah there's plenty of bad things going on out there in the world right now, but this story is hardly worth getting panties all in a bunch for, especially seeing that we do not know details. Pick your battles.Go Beavers wrote:Jeanwah wrote:
Well, you keep on judging then. I certainly don't walk around spouting my credentials to judge anyone and neither should you. Regardless of the situation.
My guess is you do judge in certain situations, like if a parent belted a kid across the face in the grocery store. In that case, no one would fault you for judging. In the OP, this is a situation where I disagree with the parent. I give myself the right to judge in this situation, just like you probably would in my grocery store example.0 -
...Go Beavers wrote:Cosmo wrote:...
Who am I to say what is the best way to teach/treat someone else's kid? I mean, yeah, it may not be my methods, but I don't think my methods would apply to everyone.
Basically... I don't know the specific detail of this story... what were the F's in? Algebra or Expressive Dance? U.S. History or Byzantine Philosophy? I don't know the kid... i don't know the parents... I don't know what they've tried and waht hasn't worked. And who knows... maybe the kid is funny. I don't know.
Read Paul's post at the top of the page, he gives an excellent explanation, and as someone who works in the same field as Paul, I wholeheartedly agree.
As far as the specific situation in the OP, I see the father giving people permission to comment on his parenting, since he is using people in the community as unwilling participants in his (unhealthy) parenting. To not comment could even be seen as colluding with something that's hurtful to the child.
I totally understand the point, humiliating the kid in public while the rest of us turn a blind eye... but, again, I don't know where in the process this is. I don't know if this father is at his wits end... whether or not he has tried other methods, including methods that we would all agree upon as good parenting practices... but, didn't seem to take affect on this one kid. We don't know if the kid is getting an F because he is bored or he just doesn't get the subject. We just don't know.Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0 -
Jeanwah wrote:
It's definitely difficult not to judge in certain situations. But in this one, where there's very limited info, I won't. The way I look at life, is to try to live simply, judge less, and accept people for who they are more. Pointing fingers, attempting to control situations, and setting my "right way of living" upon others is not my thing. I've been through enough drama for one lifetime, and getting all riled up about other people's lives isn't worth the energy. Yeah there's plenty of bad things going on out there in the world right now, but this story is hardly worth getting panties all in a bunch for, especially seeing that we do not know details. Pick your battles.Go Beavers wrote:Jeanwah wrote:
Well, you keep on judging then. I certainly don't walk around spouting my credentials to judge anyone and neither should you. Regardless of the situation.
My guess is you do judge in certain situations, like if a parent belted a kid across the face in the grocery store. In that case, no one would fault you for judging. In the OP, this is a situation where I disagree with the parent. I give myself the right to judge in this situation, just like you probably would in my grocery store example.
I agree, this story is a non-story and shame on the media for picking it up - this is where the 'crime' and culpability lie.
But by your logic, we ignore all the 'small' things because there are big things in the world like unjust wars, mass poverty etc? Even though these small issues are insignificant against the weight of the universe, they are every bit as significant for this kid and the issues facing those in dire situations elsewhere. As Zuckerburg said (and I think this is a sad - but ultimately honest way many look at the world), "To you a dead squirrel on your front lawn may be more relevant and important and a million people starving a world away."
I certainly pick my battles, and honestly would not choose this as a battle from the other side of the world and with my own kids to raise and business to run, however, we were invited to discuss this matter on a message forum that that is what I (and you) are doing - respectfully
I'm not trying to say there is a right or wrong way of living - i am sure people could find fault in some of my lifestyle choices or actions. And if I were addressing this issue with the parent directly, I sure would not be using bulldozer diplomacy and not commenting on his love for his child or his overall worth as a parent - just on these actions. However we try to mitigate said action by saying 'we don't know the full story' etc, look at what came from this actions:
1. Kid was humiliated in front of his community and peers
2. Story was picked up by the media and the kid was then humiliated before the entire nation.
3. Story was picked up my the international media and now the kid is being humiliated by the entire world.
Misguided parenting at best, downright bloody minded and cruel at worst.
I am merely pointing out, in my training and experience, this kind of thing overwhelmingly backfires and often with disastrous results.0
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