bad student holds shame sign: big fat F for the parents

catefrances

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/843413 ... shame-sign


Parents of a US schoolboy who came home with a bad report card have forced him to stand on a street corner wearing a sign describing his failures.

Miami boy Michael Bell Jr will spent his spring break holidays holding a sign after he failed three of his classes, local TV station WSVN reported.

"Hey, I want to be a class clown. Is it wrong?" the front of the sign reads.

"I'm in the 7th grade and got 3 F's. Blow your horn if there's something wrong with that," the sign says on the back.

Both of Michael's parents were at the street corner to make sure he is safe.

His father, Michael Bell Sr, describes the punishment as a last resort.

"I don't know any other way, I'm trying to reach him," he said.

"If I don't do anything, he's going to be a statistic and I don't want him to be a statistic."

brianlux

Maybe the kid needs to get a copy of George Carlin's "Class Clown" and play it for them. Maybe the kid's getting a rotten deal at school (so many do these days). Maybe the parents feed the kid too much pink slime and he's having a hard time concentrating. Maybe the kid is more interested in studying the lyrics to "American Idiot". I wonder what this kid has to deal with. My heart breaks for kids these days... over and over again.

hedonist

Love Carlin! But all due respect, THREE F's? Maybe the kid just needs to buck up.

I give credit to the parents. It seems many just don't give a shit anymore.

The "oh well" mentality.

I'd blow my horn.

(disclaimer - I'm watching Judge Judy at the moment - she gets me fired up and a willing passenger on the "no excuses" train)

catefrances

if i dont do anything he may drop out of school.... and become mark zuckerberg. imagine.. have some faith in your kids... education doesnt begin and end in school.

Paul Andrews

This kind of parenting ranks down there as low as that idiot who shot up his daughter's laptop and posted it on youtube.

When will parents get it that their kids are a product of their environment and they as role model, primary care giver and most important teacher are responsible for the majority of that environment. It's most likely they set the seeds of rebellion, lack of respect or lack of appreciation for education long before their kid became a 'failure'.

All they are now doing is humiliating this kid and most likely setting them up for further failure - lets hope the 'fuck you' they finally get is not a kid joining a gang, shooting up heroin or blowing his brains out over their living room carpet.

hedonist

No, it absolutely doesn't.

But to be failing three classes at such a young age, makes me wonder.

(I'm not sure if the Zuckerberg comment was supposed to be a positive or negative :P )

catefrances

hedonist wrote:

No, it absolutely doesn't.

But to be failing three classes at such a young age, makes me wonder.

(I'm not sure if the Zuckerberg comment was supposed to be a positive or negative :P )

positive.

perhaps the boy doesnt have an affinity for the classes.. perhaps theres a problem we are unaware of that affects his progress in those classes. what are the clsses he failed? perhaps it was just a minor blip that will right itself in subsequent semesters. who knows.. whatever the reason humiliation is never a good motivator imo. making your children feel worthless is never the answer.

hedonist

I agree.

It just seems like the alternative is coddling...not much in the way of middle-grounding it.

I could be wrong, of course.

One of the many reasons I chose to not have children.

maj4e

Did Zuck fail 7th Grade? Because dropping out of Harvard to start a business and failing junior high are pretty far apart..

catefrances

hedonist wrote:

I agree.

It just seems like the alternative is coddling...not much in the way of middle-grounding it.

I could be wrong, of course.

One of the many reasons I chose to not have children.

theres always an alternative to publicly humiliating your children. how about they sit down with him and find out where the problem lies and what can be done about it?

catefrances

maj4e wrote:

Did Zuck fail 7th Grade? Because dropping out of Harvard to start a business and failing junior high are pretty far apart..

my point was failing 7th grade isnt the end of the world. ive had 4 kids go through 7th grade.. sure id be disappointed if one of them had failed. i sure as heck would wonder how it happened considering. but what i wouldntve done was made them stand on a street corner sharing the shame they may well already feel cause id already shared just how disappointed i was in their report. when my children bring home their reports i go straight to the attitude mark. if the grade is low but the attitude is high then im ok with it. it at least shows the effort is being made.

hedonist

catefrances wrote:

theres always an alternative to publicly humiliating your children. how about they sit down with him and find out where the problem lies and what can be done about it?

Like I said, I agree.

I'm not for making kids feel like shit for....being kids.

And I think it's incumbent upon parents to...ah hell, what? Be parents, as best they can.

I wonder if this dad felt he had no other route.

(and as an aside, I don't think grades/failing are indicative of ability or potential. Not at ALL)

maj4e

catefrances wrote:

maj4e wrote:

Did Zuck fail 7th Grade? Because dropping out of Harvard to start a business and failing junior high are pretty far apart..

my point was failing 7th grade isnt the end of the world. ive had 4 kids go through 7th grade.. sure id be disappointed if one of them had failed. i sure as heck would wonder how it happened considering. but what i wouldntve done was made them stand on a street corner sharing the shame they may well already feel cause id already shared just how disappointed i was in their report. when my children bring home their reports i go straight to the attitude mark. if the grade is low but the attitude is high then im ok with it. it at least shows the effort is being made.

Oh I agree, I have Grad degrees but for some reason 7th grade kicked my ass.

CH156378

hedonist wrote:

Love Carlin! But all due respect, THREE F's? Maybe the kid just needs to buck up.

I give credit to the parents. It seems many just don't give a shit anymore.

The "oh well" mentality.

I'd blow my horn.

(disclaimer - I'm watching Judge Judy at the moment - she gets me fired up and a willing passenger on the "no excuses" train)

+1
Also +1 for Judge Judy.

Paul Andrews

hedonist wrote:

I wonder if this dad felt he had no other route.

Most likely because he is a dumbarse who looks for simple solutions and has modeled poor decision making skills and irrational behaviour all his life and passed these skills onto his kids.

CH156378

Paul Andrews wrote:

hedonist wrote:

I wonder if this dad felt he had no other route.

Most likely because he is a dumbarse who looks for simple solutions and has modeled poor decision making skills and irrational behaviour all his life and passed these skills onto his kids.

I hope this parent will be as perfect a parent as you are some day. I have seen alot worse parents. This kid is lucky he has parents that care.

hedonist

Paul Andrews wrote:

hedonist wrote:

I wonder if this dad felt he had no other route.

Most likely because he is a dumbarse who looks for simple solutions and has modeled poor decision making skills and irrational behaviour all his life and passed these skills onto his kids.

Most likely? That's quite an assumption.

So to be fair, I will give both of us the benefit of the doubt that our assessments may be way off.

catefrances

CH156378 wrote:

Paul Andrews wrote:

hedonist wrote:

I wonder if this dad felt he had no other route.

Most likely because he is a dumbarse who looks for simple solutions and has modeled poor decision making skills and irrational behaviour all his life and passed these skills onto his kids.

I hope this parent will be as perfect a parent as you are some day. I have seen alot worse parents. This kid is lucky he has parents that care.

true.. beating your children is way worse than publicly humiliating them. tho i care enough for my children that publicly humiliating them is not an option. .. and never will be.

iamica

He got off easy. If I had ever gotten even one F, my dad would have done much worse to me.

Paul Andrews

CH156378 wrote:

Paul Andrews wrote:

hedonist wrote:

I wonder if this dad felt he had no other route.

Most likely because he is a dumbarse who looks for simple solutions and has modeled poor decision making skills and irrational behaviour all his life and passed these skills onto his kids.

I hope this parent will be as perfect a parent as you are some day. I have seen alot worse parents. This kid is lucky he has parents that care.

The comment was hash and the emphasis on 'most likely' should have been 'Maybe' as I am unaware of the full circumstances, however...

No-one is the perfect parent, it is an inexact science - but it's not brain surgery or rocket science. But in my experience as a step parent and parent and from 15 years in teaching, student services and administration in tough schools. I've rarely seen a wayward kid who did not get there with a large slap of help, neglect or poor decision making by their parents. There are exceptions to this, but not many.

Humiliating kids does not work. Bashing kids does not work. Mollycoddling them or giving them everything they want is just as bad. But usually the mistakes are made well before events like this take place. Well before the F on the report. A 'bad kid' (not my words) is not made over night and said same kids is not turned around by actions like this, or shooting their computer or whatever passes for parenting in certain people's minds.

Good parenting is not being your kid's best friend, but also not being their tormentor. Parenting is about dedicating your life to your kids once you have them and helping them through life, not living it for or through them, and not giving them everything they ask for. They do need to make their own decisions at time and experience failure and suffer the consequences of those decisions, but they also need to be guided through important issues until they are mature enough to make sound decisions.

We used to have a saying in student services: Some kids get everything they want and hardly any of what they really need. I wonder how much of each this kid got?

catefrances

iamica wrote:

He got off easy. If I had ever gotten even one F, my dad would have done much worse to me.

wow theres a great motivation right there.

brianlux

Let me state first that I'm very big on education. I've spent a ridiculous amount of time in school- both as a student and an employee, and I'm a total book junky. That said, I don't think getting good grades has much if anything to do with how good or smart or motivated a person is. There is a young man in my extended family who never graduated from high school. He knows more about wilderness survival and computers and mechanical things than I ever will. He can fix and repair just about anything you put in front of him. In his early twenties he bought and has maintained for several years a very nice, large house in an excellent neighborhood. I'm very confident he will continue to be quite successful in his life. He's a good, honest, hard working kid who found school to be a boring waste of time.

For all we know, the kid who had to sit out on the street and have himself humiliated may become the next Mike McCready or Woody Harrelson or (as catefrances pointed out) Mark Zuckerberg. Or he could become a total dirt bag.

But we don't really know much about this kid. I'd at least give him a chance to defend himself and, regardless, I don't think putting him on public display is at all appropriate.

Paul Andrews

Also we used to look at abuse in different ways:

Sexual abuse - this one is obvious and well publicised.
Physical abuse - again obvious and well publicised.
Neglect abuse - sometimes obvious but neglect can be very subtle and the consequences serious.
Emotional abuse - less obvious and often with very serious consequences.

Humiliating your kids - especially by design, often in public, is emotional abuse and not a way to achieve anything, less likely the results this parent intends.

Paul Andrews

brianlux wrote:

Let me state first that I'm very big on education. I've spent a ridiculous amount of time in school- both as a student and an employee, and I'm a total book junky. That said, I don't think getting good grades has much if anything to do with how good or smart or motivated a person is. There is a young man in my extended family who never graduated from high school. He knows more about wilderness survival and computers and mechanical things than I ever will. He can fix and repair just about anything you put in front of him. In his early twenties he bought and has maintained for several years a very nice, large house in an excellent neighborhood. I'm very confident he will continue to be quite successful in his life. He's a good, honest, hard working kid who found school to be a boring waste of time.

For all we know, the kid who had to sit out on the street and have himself humiliated may become the next Mike McCready or Woody Harrelson or (as catefrances pointed out) Mark Zuckerberg. Or he could become a total dirt bag.

But we don't really know much about this kid. I'd at least give him a chance to defend himself and, regardless, I don't think putting him on public display is at all appropriate.

Well played sir

Multiple intelligence is more than just a catch phrase and the sooner we understand that there is more to education than grades, standardised tests and benchmarks, the better we will all be.

Cate Francis displayed a perfect attitude to her kids' reports, yes look at the grades, but pay as much (if not more) attention to the affective domain comments in regard to Effort, Attitude and Application. An F with high effort is worth as much than an A if it is the best they can do.

brianlux

Paul Andrews wrote:

brianlux wrote:

Let me state first that I'm very big on education. I've spent a ridiculous amount of time in school- both as a student and an employee, and I'm a total book junky. That said, I don't think getting good grades has much if anything to do with how good or smart or motivated a person is. There is a young man in my extended family who never graduated from high school. He knows more about wilderness survival and computers and mechanical things than I ever will. He can fix and repair just about anything you put in front of him. In his early twenties he bought and has maintained for several years a very nice, large house in an excellent neighborhood. I'm very confident he will continue to be quite successful in his life. He's a good, honest, hard working kid who found school to be a boring waste of time.

For all we know, the kid who had to sit out on the street and have himself humiliated may become the next Mike McCready or Woody Harrelson or (as catefrances pointed out) Mark Zuckerberg. Or he could become a total dirt bag.

But we don't really know much about this kid. I'd at least give him a chance to defend himself and, regardless, I don't think putting him on public display is at all appropriate.

Well played sir

Multiple intelligence is more than just a catch phrase and the sooner we understand that there is more to education than grades, standardised tests and benchmarks, the better we will all be.

Cate Francis displayed a perfect attitude to her kids' reports, yes look at the grades, but pay as much (if not more) attention to the affective domain comments in regard to Effort, Attitude and Application. An F with high effort is worth as much than an A if it is the best they can do.

Thank you, Paul Andrews! I say this because despite the fact that my GPA in my last two years of college was something like 3.95, I had two college courses in which I received big fat F's. And they were optional course I chose rather than required courses. (But don't ask me what they were or I'll... :oops: ).

Maybe this kid will do better than I did.

Paul Andrews

brianlux wrote:

Paul Andrews wrote:

brianlux wrote:

Let me state first that I'm very big on education. I've spent a ridiculous amount of time in school- both as a student and an employee, and I'm a total book junky. That said, I don't think getting good grades has much if anything to do with how good or smart or motivated a person is. There is a young man in my extended family who never graduated from high school. He knows more about wilderness survival and computers and mechanical things than I ever will. He can fix and repair just about anything you put in front of him. In his early twenties he bought and has maintained for several years a very nice, large house in an excellent neighborhood. I'm very confident he will continue to be quite successful in his life. He's a good, honest, hard working kid who found school to be a boring waste of time.

For all we know, the kid who had to sit out on the street and have himself humiliated may become the next Mike McCready or Woody Harrelson or (as catefrances pointed out) Mark Zuckerberg. Or he could become a total dirt bag.

But we don't really know much about this kid. I'd at least give him a chance to defend himself and, regardless, I don't think putting him on public display is at all appropriate.

Well played sir

Multiple intelligence is more than just a catch phrase and the sooner we understand that there is more to education than grades, standardised tests and benchmarks, the better we will all be.

Cate Francis displayed a perfect attitude to her kids' reports, yes look at the grades, but pay as much (if not more) attention to the affective domain comments in regard to Effort, Attitude and Application. An F with high effort is worth as much than an A if it is the best they can do.

Thank you, Paul Andrews! I say this because despite the fact that my GPA in my last two years of college was something like 3.95, I had two college courses in which I received big fat F's. And they were optional course I chose rather than required courses. (But don't ask me what they were or I'll... :oops: ).

Maybe this kid will do better than I did.

I fucked up my senior year of high school through my own fault of just losing interest. However, when i was ready i turned my head back to study, did very well at university, got into teaching, always chose the harder schools where I felt i could be of most benefit, was nominated for a national education award (which i didn't get) worked on two projects that won youth services awards and then when i'd had enough of banging my head against the wall of government indifference and lack of funding, left education and started my own successful business. My grades in year 11 and 12 would never indicate the future I had ahead of me.

Education is very important, but not if it is 'just another brick in the wall'. Potential is not measured in grades, it only measures performance in a narrow band of subjects - and in the case of standardised tests - only on a given day.

Jeanwah

Wow, so much assumption on here from a little blip of a story with few details. After reading it, I know I certainly can't gauge the situation going on in that family, the boy, his classes, teachers or school. Who really knows what's going on here, because it's certainly not us!

catefrances

Jeanwah wrote:

Wow, so much assumption on here from a little blip of a story with few details. After reading it, I know I certainly can't gauge the situation going on in that family, the boy, his classes, teachers or school. Who really knows what's going on here, because it's certainly not us!

so its ok to humiliate a child in this way? i dont need to know the minutiae of this situation to know humiliating anyone, especially a child, is degrading no matter what the circumstances.

Jeanwah

catefrances wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

Wow, so much assumption on here from a little blip of a story with few details. After reading it, I know I certainly can't gauge the situation going on in that family, the boy, his classes, teachers or school. Who really knows what's going on here, because it's certainly not us!

so its ok to humiliate a child in this way? i dont need to know the minutiae of this situation to know humiliating anyone, especially a child, is degrading no matter what the circumstances.

Who am I to judge here? Obviously you feel that it's your right to judge a story based on a few words, where there is no abuse going on. Fine. Get all upset about something you can't do a damn thing about as well as know nothing about it as well. I just don't find this topic worthy of getting upset about when the whole story isn't being told.

Paul Andrews

Jeanwah wrote:

catefrances wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

Wow, so much assumption on here from a little blip of a story with few details. After reading it, I know I certainly can't gauge the situation going on in that family, the boy, his classes, teachers or school. Who really knows what's going on here, because it's certainly not us!

so its ok to humiliate a child in this way? i dont need to know the minutiae of this situation to know humiliating anyone, especially a child, is degrading no matter what the circumstances.

Who am I to judge here? Obviously you feel that it's your right to judge a story based on a few words, where there is no abuse going on. Fine. Get all upset about something you can't do a damn thing about as well as know nothing about it as well. I just don't find this topic worthy of getting upset about when the whole story isn't being told.

Sorry Jeanwah, I disagree, this is emotional abuse - a textbook case of it.

Without the background or any other details needed, what that parent is doing (even with good intentions) this is child abuse that will have ramifications - whether they be a breakdown in trust and respect for the parent, education or even society (every arsehole who hooted), this is not a good thing to do to your child and most likely the child's urge will be to revenge rather then acceptance of their mistakes and a future desire to do better.

All these actions did is stoke the parent's ego, like to dickwit who shot up his daughter's computer. It is not effective discipline and had far more chance of backfiring or producing further negative results. There are better and more effective ways to deal with issues such as this and prevention is obviously the best. When the bond between child and parent/school/society is broken, it is rarely due to a single incident but years of ineffective or negative actions (again often well intended). This child's failure most likely stemmed from issues than have been present in his life since the very beginning and turning them around usually required an examination of the entire environment, not just a public humiliation.

I'm not talking from my arse on this, it's based on years of research and real world experience dealing with kids and parent like this - and not like this. I feel qualified to judge.

chadwick

i think the kid will be ok in the years to come. i bet next year he has no F's on his report card. i wonder though how in the world did he get 3 F's? i was a disaster and had incredible problems and even more incredible hurdles to get over just to get a C or a B. the only class i ever got an A in was physical education. i was a hyper active little shit.

the schools fed me ridilin pills; this had a helping hand in turning me into a drug addict and drunkard. in the summer they took the ridilin away from me. during school months i was drugged up again. then back off the pills for the summer.

my grades were mostly C's & D's.

in high school i dropped out and went to drop out classes with my drug addicted friends. we were a mess. i fully believe it did not have to be that way.

i had a friend in school whom was a pot smoker by 6th grade if not sooner. by junior high school he was fully into cocaine and crank and whatever else. he used to sleep at school most days in high school, at his desk during class. we were in the fuck-ups class.

i never ever landed an A on anything until college. i only have 2 years of college. one day i will go back and i will study my ass off again and i will be badass.

i remember the teachers i had in college all loved me very much because i bust my balls. in grade school, junior high and high school i was a walking zombie.

the only way a kid can get three F on one report card is if he/she is fucking around being an idiot or the kid is actually very much messed up with real problems.