Is Ten Out of Tune?

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DriftingByTheStorm
DriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
edited April 2012 in Musicians and Gearheads
This is a weird intro to the question,
but was trying to play soul to squeeze along to video, and came to realization the song is actually recorded about a 1\4 step up from standard.

got me thinking about Nirvana - Nevermind being recorded 1\4 step down (i think?) ... and then I remembered that someone said something (either on here, or in a youtube comment) about the entire Ten album being recorded a fraction of a step up or down.

Anyone have any thoughts on that?
My ears aren't all that great.
But if i play alive, and bend my 7th fret up (about a quarter) on the D string and play the "do-de doo doo" (lol) part that happens right when he says "son", hammering on the 9 but ensuring it stays bent up about a quarter too ... it does sound "better" to me, in that it sounds "brighter" ... and i'm wondering if i'm just on crack this morning or if this is true.

Anyone with good ears and half a brain?
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • AzWicker
    AzWicker Posts: 1,162
    It could be tape speed manipulation after recording before mastering. Lots of artists do that. Many guitarist tuner down a little to accomidate their singer as it is easier to sing in Eb, though I suck at singing in any key.
    Ed: 2011-07-09 2012-11-04
    PJ: 2011-09-03 2011-09-04
  • RedMosquito22
    RedMosquito22 Posts: 8,158
    They don't really record many songs in different tunings(daughter definitely is though). However, playing them live is a different story. Playing a half step down live on the hard rocking songs helps Ed vocally.
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  • DewieCox
    DewieCox Posts: 11,432
    RedMosquito22 wrote:
    They don't really record many songs in different tunings(daughter definitely is though). However, playing them live is a different story. Playing a half step down live on the hard rocking songs helps Ed vocally.

    They actually have quite a few songs in alternate tunings.

    Oceans
    Deep
    Garden
    Evenflow
    Habit
    Go
    Daughter
    Blood
    Leash
    Brain of J
    MFC
    Sleight of Hand
    NAIS
    Can't Keep
    You Are
    1/2 Full
    All or None
    Marker In the Sand
    GtF
    Present Tense
    No Way
    Faithfull

    AzWicker wrote:
    It could be tape speed manipulation after recording before mastering. Lots of artists do that. Many guitarist tuner down a little to accomidate their singer as it is easier to sing in Eb, though I suck at singing in any key.

    I dunno about the op, b/c I don't play along to much stuff on Ten, but it's very common for bands to slow down whole tracks to change the mood a bit or make them a little heavier.

    There's endless possiblities with vari-speeding as it's called...I know Frusciante did some speeding up and doubling to record the harpsichord sounding part on one of the tunes from Stadium Arcadium, an idea which he stole from Hendrix.


    moral of the story.....if it sounds a bit off of standard, it probably is.

    with open tunings people often find a way around it and the song'll sound fine, but a little off. They'll sound alot better when you use the proper tuning.
  • RedMosquito22
    RedMosquito22 Posts: 8,158
    DewieCox wrote:
    RedMosquito22 wrote:
    They don't really record many songs in different tunings(daughter definitely is though). However, playing them live is a different story. Playing a half step down live on the hard rocking songs helps Ed vocally.

    They actually have quite a few songs in alternate tunings.

    Oceans
    Deep
    Garden
    Evenflow
    Habit
    Go
    Daughter
    Blood
    Leash
    Brain of J
    MFC
    Sleight of Hand
    NAIS
    Can't Keep
    You Are
    1/2 Full
    All or None
    Marker In the Sand
    GtF
    Present Tense
    No Way
    Faithfull

    Both guitars aren't in alt tunings on all of those songs.
    Member 164xxx

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  • DewieCox
    DewieCox Posts: 11,432
    RedMosquito22 wrote:
    DewieCox wrote:
    RedMosquito22 wrote:
    They don't really record many songs in different tunings(daughter definitely is though). However, playing them live is a different story. Playing a half step down live on the hard rocking songs helps Ed vocally.

    They actually have quite a few songs in alternate tunings.

    Oceans
    Deep
    Garden
    Evenflow
    Habit
    Go
    Daughter
    Blood
    Leash
    Brain of J
    MFC
    Sleight of Hand
    NAIS
    Can't Keep
    You Are
    1/2 Full
    All or None
    Marker In the Sand
    GtF
    Present Tense
    No Way
    Faithfull

    Both guitars aren't in alt tunings on all of those songs.

    You said THEY don't record many songs in alternate tunings. Mike almost always uses standard, with a few excursions into DADGAD, probably some other tunings as well but I haven't tried to learn every PJ tune. Mike plays in standard in your example of a song that has an alternate tunings.
  • RedMosquito22
    RedMosquito22 Posts: 8,158
    DewieCox wrote:
    You said THEY don't record many songs in alternate tunings.

    Right. They play 80% in standard tuning on the albums which is the vast majority thus meaning the 22 you listed isn't many.
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  • DewieCox
    DewieCox Posts: 11,432
    RedMosquito22 wrote:
    DewieCox wrote:
    You said THEY don't record many songs in alternate tunings.

    Right. They play 80% in standard tuning on the albums which is the vast majority thus meaning the 22 you listed isn't many.

    When most rock bands play everything in standard tuning, and half the songs on the first 2 albums have alternate tunings I would say they have quite a few tunes in alternate tunings.

    The 22 I listed is just the ones I could remember off of the studio albums. I'm sure there's several more among their bsides.

    You seemed to imply that Daughter was one of a few songs they have in a different tuning and I was just making sure the ts wasn't lead astray b/c of your ignorance. Though with your posting history I'm sure most people know by now that you're probably just spewing shit you know nothing about.
  • RedMosquito22
    RedMosquito22 Posts: 8,158
    DewieCox wrote:
    You seemed to imply that Daughter was one of a few songs they have in a different tuning and I was just making sure the ts wasn't lead astray b/c of your ignorance. Though with your posting history I'm sure most people know by now that you're probably just spewing shit you know nothing about.

    I was implying that Daughter was one of a few songs completely in an alt tuning, because it is.

    What's the point in arguing about it. Very few songs in their catalog are completely tuned differently(probably around 10 if not less) and daughter is one. Most on your list is Stone messing with some Alt tuning and Mike in Standard. The rest are in standard on the albums.

    Like I said live is a different story. They are tuned 1/2 step down almost the entire show except for slower songs.

    I know what I'm talking about.
    Member 164xxx

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  • DewieCox
    DewieCox Posts: 11,432
    RedMosquito22 wrote:
    DewieCox wrote:
    You seemed to imply that Daughter was one of a few songs they have in a different tuning and I was just making sure the ts wasn't lead astray b/c of your ignorance. Though with your posting history I'm sure most people know by now that you're probably just spewing shit you know nothing about.

    I was implying that Daughter was one of a few songs completely in an alt tuning, because it is.

    What's the point in arguing about it. Very few songs in their catalog are completely tuned differently(probably around 10 if not less) and daughter is one. Most on your list is Stone messing with some Alt tuning and Mike in Standard. The rest are in standard on the albums.

    Like I said live is a different story. They are tuned 1/2 step down almost the entire show except for slower songs.

    I know what I'm talking about.

    I guess we'll agree to disagree on what constitutes quite a few.

    Mike's part in Daughter is standard. Stone carries the song in open G.

    It's not Stone just messing around in open tuning. More often than not it's Mike messing around in standard around Stone alternatly tuned riff.

    Unless they changed on the most recent Canadian run, there are not really many song that they tune down for EV. Not even close to half the set let alone almost the entire show, as of the 2010 spring US tour. Comatose, Fixer, Got Some, Life Wasted, Force of Nature, Supersonic I know for sure were tuned down. Again that could have changed, but I don't think anything was lowered at PJ20.
  • RedMosquito22
    RedMosquito22 Posts: 8,158
    Leash, Habit, Present Tense(because Mike's part is the main riff) and Sleight of Hand are the only songs that everyone is in an Alt tuning, every other song can be played standard and not sound wrong if you are playing alone. If there is another guitar player with you there are 15(without factoring in Backspacer, but I haven't played one from that album that is in alt tuning yet) other songs that have 1 standard and 1 alt tuning.

    Even Flow
    Oceans
    Garden
    Deep

    Go
    Daughter
    Blood

    Brain of J
    Faithful
    No way
    Given to fly
    MFC(only Ed's Guitar is dropped D)

    NAIS

    1/2 Full
    All or None
    Member 164xxx

    8/15/92, 9/28/96, 8/28/98, 8/29/98, 9/18/98, 8/3/00, 8/9/00, 8/10/00, 8/23/00, 8/25/00, 9/1/00, 9/2/00, 4/28/03, 6/18/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 10/1/04, 10/3/05, 6/19/08, 10/27/09, 10/31/09, 5/21/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 10/21/13

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  • Jon Chorba
    Jon Chorba Posts: 268
    DriftingByTheStorm wrote:
    This is a weird intro to the question,
    but was trying to play soul to squeeze along to video, and came to realization the song is actually recorded about a 1\4 step up from standard.

    got me thinking about Nirvana - Nevermind being recorded 1\4 step down (i think?) ... and then I remembered that someone said something (either on here, or in a youtube comment) about the entire Ten album being recorded a fraction of a step up or down.

    Anyone have any thoughts on that?
    My ears aren't all that great.
    But if i play alive, and bend my 7th fret up (about a quarter) on the D string and play the "do-de doo doo" (lol) part that happens right when he says "son", hammering on the 9 but ensuring it stays bent up about a quarter too ... it does sound "better" to me, in that it sounds "brighter" ... and i'm wondering if i'm just on crack this morning or if this is true.

    Anyone with good ears and half a brain?

    From what I could recall, Even Flow is the only track on the record that was slowed down and thus creating the 1/4 step difference. The radio version is so much better than the Ten version, IMO.


    If You Like Crunchy Guitar Riffs, Powerful Vocals, Melodic Guitar Solos, And Meaningful Lyrics..then you need to check out one of the most refreshing new hard rock bands in quite some time...-->The Liberty Underground<--
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,251
    This thread is entertaining. I agree with Dewie Cox though on his first post in this thread.

    Althought I don't really think Drop D is an alternate tuning. It probably technically is.
  • AzWicker
    AzWicker Posts: 1,162
    Alex, what is arguing semantics?
    Ed: 2011-07-09 2012-11-04
    PJ: 2011-09-03 2011-09-04
  • papa_pearls_jam.pj20
    papa_pearls_jam.pj20 Chicago USA Posts: 2,142
    No and yes.

    As in, the original version from Ten of Even Flow is not tuned to Standard 440 or an alternate of 440. If you tuned your guitar at 440 and try to play another song, such as Release, the fourth string, D, would ring in tune.

    However, if you tried to play along with the Even Flow track, you'd notice that the guitar is out of tune with your standard 440 tuning.

    So, No, Ten is not out of tune, but, yes, Even Flow, for one, is out of tune.

    To illustrate a better way, try playing the Ten, Even Flow, with the Brendan O'Brien version of Even Flow. Very easy to notice the difference.
    Posimists. Fuck the pessimists...fuck'em.

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