The Hypocrisy that is Bu$hleaguer?

13

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  • markin ball
    markin ball Posts: 1,076
    Ed is a "have". It is not uncommon to criticize a group that you belong to. Americans criticize america, democrats criticize the democratic party, etc. Ed is criticizing his economic peer group.
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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,408
    markin ball wrote:
    Ed is a "have". It is not uncommon to criticize a group that you belong to. Americans criticize america, democrats criticize the democratic party, etc. Ed is criticizing his economic peer group.
    Ed and the rest are haves from sharing their collective talents and were made haves by us. the consumer.

    What the song partially refers to IMO is those born into "have" thinking they earned it. A song like this needs to be viewed in its entirety to have the message fully heard.

    Its a direct shot at W and his cronies.
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  • F5AgainstOne
    F5AgainstOne New Hampshire, USA Posts: 1,462
    blueandwhite wrote:
    For me the line "Born on third, thinks he got a triple" answers this one. While Pearl Jam may have had the fortune of amassing a huge amount of wealth over their careers, they certainly didn't start in the so-called 1%. I'm pretty sure that Jeff or Ed have first hand knowledge of what it's like to be broke. There are a lot of people who can't speak to that experience who don't know or care about the millions of people who are suffering in poverty.

    Now perhaps if PJ actually have their assets in a tax haven to avoid paying taxes like U2 I could see the hypocrisy a bit more clearly :lol: .

    Exactly, I think the "Haves" that he is referring to are those who have always had everything, but never had to earn it, never saw the other side of the fence, never dealt with hardships or struggles.
    "Born on third" -- he didn't get there by earning it, he didn't get a triple.
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  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    edited November 2011
    i've heard or read w/ my own two eyes that ed drives or did drive his old toyota from back in his gas pumping days. this is great and i find it hilarious.

    take mr. neil young for example, the man has been making music and touring as long as we are old or longer than the rest are young. :?

    the man is a pillar in this world. i (do) would trust neil more than anyone i'm sure of that. while wearing blue jeans with holes and a flannel shirt...there he goes, there he is. (and willie nelson. i trust that man)

    these people give away more than what is seen. low-key without flash and the i,i,i,i, look at me signs.
    they have created jobs and lives for a great number of people behind the scences, man. of course these are only my opinions i know nothing from first hand experience.
    Post edited by chadwick on
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    as I said, this is being disected more than I intended. it was not a shot at ed, or shooting the messenger as someone else said. my hypocrisy was a strong word, but there's only so much you can put in a thread title to embody the message of said thread.

    It was answered simply as "yes he's a have, but he wasn't always".

    I think it had more to do with a clever play on words than anything else, now that I think about it.
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  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    polaris_x wrote:
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    to be honest, I wasn't sure if I was misinterpreting the lyrics, as a good portion of the lyrics in the song don't make a lick of sense to me.

    this line: "This is such a happening tailpipe of a party."

    honestly, this whole flippin' verse makes my head spin:

    "A think tank of aloof multiplication
    A nicotine wish and a columbus decanter
    Retrenchment and hoggishness
    The aristocrat choir sings
    "What's the ruckus?"
    The haves have not a clue
    The immenseness of suffering
    And the odd negotiation, a rarity
    With onionskin plausibility of life,
    And a keyboard reaffirmation"

    secondly, i think if you take some time ... this verse should be pretty straightforward.

    really? well I guess I'm dense! :lol: I have no idea what "aloof multiplication" or "nicotine wish" or "columbus decanter" or "keyboard reaffirmation" mean whatsoever.

    But I'm also not that well-versed in the political.
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  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    blueandwhite wrote:
    This kind of debate has always looked a bit like a strawman argument. It's easier to attack the messenger than it is to argue with the idea. If we discredit the messenger we don't even need to deconstruct the message. I suppose the thinking goes; "a hypocrite has no credibility so the message is automatically discredited". You see this sort of thing all the time on the train. Read any Obama thread, or any thread on any of the Republican candidates and most of the posts focus on discrediting/insulting the individual rather than looking at their policies or platforms. The same can be said of many prominent political writers. Everybody is so partisan that any attempt real dialogue is pointless. Those posters will just be ignored.

    it was a question, not trying to stir anything up or start any heated debate. I was attacking nothing.
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  • rollings
    rollings unknown Posts: 7,127
    This is such a happening thread of a tailpipe

    I'm sure that this 20 seconds brought it on:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn4daYJzyls
  • rollings
    rollings unknown Posts: 7,127
    blueandwhite wrote:
    This kind of debate has always looked a bit like a strawman argument. It's easier to attack the messenger than it is to argue with the idea. If we discredit the messenger we don't even need to deconstruct the message.......

    Recognizing fallacies is one of my favorite past times.

    You're right, "strawman" is a fallacy, but actually "strawman" technically references when a person's argument is distorted by the other party and that distorted argument (the strawman) is then attacked.

    what you're referring to is the fallacy of "personal attack".

    Look at the list a little bit down on the left.....so many ways to argue incorrectly....

    http://www.fallacyfiles.org/adhomine.html
  • Thoughts_Arrive
    Thoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    Rollings wrote:
    This is such a happening thread of a tailpipe

    I'm sure that this 20 seconds brought it on:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn4daYJzyls

    :lol:

    True!

    What was this function he was speaking at?
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  • Thoughts_Arrive
    Thoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165
    Having read PJ20 I am very surprised so many PJ fans booed and exited shows as this song was being performed.
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  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Thoughts_Arrive wrote:
    Having read PJ20 I am very surprised so many PJ fans booed and exited shows as this song was being performed.

    Having been frequenting the AMT for the past five years, it doesn't really surprise me.


    Though it is disappointing.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,302
    I just wish the song wasn't so direct in its message. It has a good riff with a haunting overlay by McCready. But now it has become a dated political statement ... well at least until the Mexican version of George Bush decides to run someday.
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  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    markin ball wrote:
    Ed is a "have". It is not uncommon to criticize a group that you belong to. Americans criticize america, democrats criticize the democratic party, etc. Ed is criticizing his economic peer group.

    exactly.
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  • MayDay Malone
    MayDay Malone Posts: 641
    Great music ruined by stupid lyrics.
  • mysticweed
    mysticweed Posts: 3,710
    edited November 2011
    Wilds wrote:
    I always put this song and lyric to a higher order. Not some "rich" self made businessman, or actor, or even a rich politician as a singular entity, but more of the big, old money that actually runs everything.

    Corporate money maybe, but really the power that has America in constant war, with men and woman dying all over the world because it is good for Haliburton, and the Military Industry.

    Those politicians can be anyone, but they all represent the same thing. The same power structure that sends men to die for oil.


    hoo-fucking-ray

    well said

    and as for the fans at nassau and denver that boooed the song
    it was as if they didn't even know who they were going to see
    it's pearl jam for fuck's sake
    Post edited by mysticweed on
    fuck 'em if they can't take a joke

    "what a long, strange trip it's been"
  • shadowcast
    shadowcast Posts: 2,336
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    I'm sure this has been covered, but the line "the haves have not a clue" kind of strikes me as a bit odd. I mean, aren't the guys in Pearl Jam technically "haves"? They probably have more than a lot of politicians do.

    Anyone?
    I think more of "The Haves" of being born into soemthing. Not really earning it. For Example GW.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,302
    shadowcast wrote:
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    I'm sure this has been covered, but the line "the haves have not a clue" kind of strikes me as a bit odd. I mean, aren't the guys in Pearl Jam technically "haves"? They probably have more than a lot of politicians do.

    Anyone?
    I think more of "The Haves" of being born into soemthing. Not really earning it. For Example GW.
    A challenge that the band's children will be faced with.

    The Haves are now defined as anyone making over $200K or a couple making over $250K. That is who protesters claim have not been paying their fair share. They are the 1%.

    But it seems we have conceptualized The Haves as "Fat Cat Wall Street C.E.O.s" while The Haves are also composed of rock stars, physicians, small business owners, etc.
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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    as I said, this is being disected more than I intended. it was not a shot at ed, or shooting the messenger as someone else said. my hypocrisy was a strong word, but there's only so much you can put in a thread title to embody the message of said thread.

    It was answered simply as "yes he's a have, but he wasn't always".

    I think it had more to do with a clever play on words than anything else, now that I think about it.


    not to mention he might not always be.. and i think thats where the haves have not a clue. they fail to see the privileged position they find themselves in(and in some cases how they got there) and how it can all be taken away.. yet they dont act that way. they act as if they will be privileged for the rest of their lives and therefore are blinded to those who for whatever reason arent so privileged.
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  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    edited November 2011
    i will say that only a genius could have written this song. no one can write this kinda poetry w/out having the wonderful gift of creativity. i say it's badass and very complex. hopefully it will produce profit for many years to come. as well as open minds and inspire others and nail a few people...this being the most important.
    Post edited by chadwick on
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce

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