GOP hurting economic recovery....

Smellyman · September 2011

On purpose? I think so too. It is amazing how every step of the way Obama has been blocked by the GOP. They don't give a shit. They are just trying to get Bachmann/Perry (shudder) in office. Screw the people.

"And worse than doing nothing, the actions of lawmakers are helping create the kind of uncertainty abhorred by business leaders, experts say. Two prime examples: The battle over funding federal agencies that brought the government to the brink of a shutdown. And the congressionally-created debt ceiling crisis. What they have done is legislate uncertainty -- and who needs this? They should just go home and sleep," said Michael Cheah, a bond fund manager and adjunct professor at New York University. "This is not lawmaking. I don't even know what to call it."

http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/08/news/economy/congress_gridlock_tax/index.htm?cnn=yes&hpt=hp_bn2

catefrances · September 2011

but surely the people will see the GOP stonewalling and not take it out on obama. i shudder to think who the republicans will throw up as their next presidential nominee

unsung · September 2011

Actually the Federal Reserve seems to be hurting our recovery.

brianlux · September 2011

Again, I ask- recovering to what? Endless consumption, further depletion of natural resources, further degradation of our global environment, a continuation of a petro-chemical world and a rapid depletion of cheap energy with limited clean alternatives of any real consequence on the horizon?

Please, folks, think about these terms that get tossed around by even some of the most well intention:
"Recovery", "Spur the economy", "Economic stimulus".

Those terms are far more popular today than concepts like: "renewable resources", "conservation" and "sustainability" which have been softened or given a bad rap. But which of these sets of terms are really, in the long run, in our best interest?

Smellyman · September 2011

i tend to agree with you.

I am always perplexed how and why we need a coninuously growing economy. It is not good for the earth.

blackredyellow · September 2011

Smellyman wrote:

i tend to agree with you.

I am always perplexed how and why we need a coninuously growing economy. It is not good for the earth.

You see the numbers and stats all of the time, about how people are saving more, spending less, etc... This is a good thing! I guess it's better for the economy when people spend well beyond their means and buy everything on credit.

brianlux · September 2011

blackredyellow wrote:

Smellyman wrote:

i tend to agree with you.

I am always perplexed how and why we need a coninuously growing economy. It is not good for the earth.

You see the numbers and stats all of the time, about how people are saving more, spending less, etc... This is a good thing! I guess it's better for the economy when people spend well beyond their means and buy everything on credit.

It does seem that way! The thing I find odd is that it seems that in general there is more attention paid to what is "good for the economy" than what is good for people and the planet as a whole. What I want to know is- what is good about a "good economy" on a planet that at the rate we are chewing it up will become inhospitable to our species, not to mention any other large animals? If a "good economy" is one in which more goods are produced and consumed utilizing more and more finite resources with the intent to keep up the gross national product (or some other similar unsustainable concept) isn't that kind of economy one which is self-destructive? Of course there is a line of thinking that says that the sooner we screw up the environment the sooner the human species will become extinct the sooner the planet can go back to establishing a natural driven ecological balance. Personally, I like the idea of a planet with people on it.

Nothingman54 · September 2011

EdsonNascimento · September 2011

Smellyman wrote:

On purpose? I think so too. It is amazing how every step of the way Obama has been blocked by the GOP. They don't give a shit. They are just trying to get Bachmann/Perry (shudder) in office. Screw the people.

Your conclusion ignores the fact that everything Obama has done has hurt the economy since he took office. (yay! 9.1% unemployment - but 15% poverty - bravismo! I know before it was Bush's fault, and now it's the new majority's fault. 2 years of total political dominance is no opportunity to get anything done around these parts). So, stopping him at every turn is exactly what the country needed. Now, I'm not saying we need these other clowns, either.

My hope would be cooler heads will prevail and we'll end up with a more moderate President, which is what has proven successful in the past. Not a glorified community organizer. Not a bible thumping madperson. A moderate.

Extremes will always hurt the country.

whygohome · September 2011

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Smellyman wrote:

On purpose? I think so too. It is amazing how every step of the way Obama has been blocked by the GOP. They don't give a shit. They are just trying to get Bachmann/Perry (shudder) in office. Screw the people.

Your conclusion ignores the fact that everything Obama has done has hurt the economy since he took office. (yay! 9.1% unemployment - but 15% poverty - bravismo! I know before it was Bush's fault, and now it's the new majority's fault. 2 years of total political dominance is no opportunity to get anything done around these parts). So, stopping him at every turn is exactly what the country needed. Now, I'm not saying we need these other clowns, either.

Just my two cents: I just spent the past two weekends--including PJ20--with two high school friends who work in the financial industry: one as a commodities trader and one, an ivy-leaguer (oohhh, evil..) who just semi-retired form the largest trading company in the nation at 31 and started his own company. The bottom line: both are millionaires in their early 30s and both are geniuses when it comes to finance, economics, the banking industry, and the markets.

They share a consensus:
1. the bull shit of Obama is anti-business and hurting the economy is downright idiotic.
2. The highest level of Wall St, Banking, etc, execs, care nothing about the American public, and only care about ways that they can make $0 million a year instead of $30 million a year
3. trickle-down economics is the most laughable idea
4. low taxes on "job creators" is just as laughable as trickle-down. Where are the jobs now that taxes (esp. capital gains) have been at the lowest level in decades?
5. the Tea Party are nothing but corporate (Koch) funded, zombified, brainless hicks/fools who are rallying and voting against their best interests.
6. raise taxes on traders and those in the industry who contribute nothing to society
7. The Right should be praised for their amazing ability at spreading propaganda to the uneducated, ignorant masses

You can doubt me all you want, but I would say it is not a smart thing to doubt those who are millionaires in their early 30s and those who have actual experience and knowledge--two things which are obviously not as important as the opinions of fools who know nothing.

cincybearcat · September 2011

Yep if 2 guys say it, it must be true.

whygohome · September 2011

cincybearcat wrote:

Yep if 2 guys say it, it must be true.

I never said it was the Truth. I was simply relaying the thoughts of two well-educated, experienced, highly successful individuals who have 100x the knowledge of economics, the markets, and the financial and banking industries that most others have.

satansbed · September 2011

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Smellyman wrote:

On purpose? I think so too. It is amazing how every step of the way Obama has been blocked by the GOP. They don't give a shit. They are just trying to get Bachmann/Perry (shudder) in office. Screw the people.

Your conclusion ignores the fact that everything Obama has done has hurt the economy since he took office. (yay! 9.1% unemployment - but 15% poverty - bravismo! I know before it was Bush's fault, and now it's the new majority's fault. 2 years of total political dominance is no opportunity to get anything done around these parts). So, stopping him at every turn is exactly what the country needed. Now, I'm not saying we need these other clowns, either.

My hope would be cooler heads will prevail and we'll end up with a more moderate President, which is what has proven successful in the past. Not a glorified community organizer. Not a bible thumping madperson. A moderate.

Extremes will always hurt the country.

its sad that the republicans have moved so far to the right that obama is seen a lefty, when in the rest of the world he is viewed as a centerist at least and to most he is pretty much a center right politiician

cincybearcat · September 2011

whygohome wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Yep if 2 guys say it, it must be true.

I never said it was the Truth, asshole. I was simply relaying the thoughts of two well-educated, experienced, highly successful individuals who have 100x the knowledge of economics, the markets, and the financial and banking industries that you have. How old were you when you earned your first million as a trader on Wall Street?

Instead of using that weak smiley, I wish you would laugh in my face like that.
Also, thank you for proving me right: people's idiotic opinions are more important than facts and experts.

Hahaha, ok tough guy, time to calm down. They are all opinions.

I think a lot of their opinions make sense and some of it is their own bs that they bought into. Man, it's friday, have a beer, relax.

mikepegg44 · September 2011

whygohome wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Smellyman wrote:

On purpose? I think so too. It is amazing how every step of the way Obama has been blocked by the GOP. They don't give a shit. They are just trying to get Bachmann/Perry (shudder) in office. Screw the people.

Your conclusion ignores the fact that everything Obama has done has hurt the economy since he took office. (yay! 9.1% unemployment - but 15% poverty - bravismo! I know before it was Bush's fault, and now it's the new majority's fault. 2 years of total political dominance is no opportunity to get anything done around these parts). So, stopping him at every turn is exactly what the country needed. Now, I'm not saying we need these other clowns, either.

Just my two cents: I just spent the past two weekends--including PJ20--with two high school friends who work in the financial industry: one as a commodities trader and one, an ivy-leaguer (oohhh, evil..) who just semi-retired form the largest trading company in the nation at 31 and started his own company. The bottom line: both are millionaires in their early 30s and both are geniuses when it comes to finance, economics, the banking industry, and the markets.

They share a consensus:
1. the bull shit of Obama is anti-business and hurting the economy is downright idiotic.
2. The highest level of Wall St, Banking, etc, execs, care nothing about the American public, and only care about ways that they can make $0 million a year instead of $30 million a year
3. trickle-down economics is the most laughable idea
4. low taxes on "job creators" is just as laughable as trickle-down. Where are the jobs now that taxes (esp. capital gains) have been at the lowest level in decades?
5. the Tea Party are nothing but corporate (Koch) funded, zombified, brainless hicks/fools who are rallying and voting against their best interests.
6. raise taxes on traders and those in the industry who contribute nothing to society
7. The Right should be praised for their amazing ability at spreading propaganda to the uneducated, ignorant masses

You can doubt me all you want, but I would say it is not a smart thing to doubt those who are millionaires in their early 30s and those who have actual experience and knowledge--two things which are obviously not as important as the opinions of fools who know nothing.

I am not saying I don't believe you, but could you elaborate about the points they made in bold. I am interested in a discussion, not trying to antagonize.

whygohome · September 2011

cincybearcat wrote:

Yep if 2 guys say it, it must be true.

The point of this post?

I am quite relaxed. After being told that I do not need to go down to my father's house to help some more with the flooding damage, and since I took today off to do just that, I have already smoked a bowl, and I plan on going to lunch where I will surely knock back a few Dogfish. Way ahead of ya....

If I jumped the gun, then so be it. I won't apologize for being stressed out and angry about the state of American society: See brianlux's post on why he's leaving AMT. I am taking it a step further and heading to Europe in less than a year. I can't wait.

Also, your mocking, smug reply was unnecessary.

cincybearcat · September 2011

whygohome wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Yep if 2 guys say it, it must be true.

The point of this post?

I am quite relaxed. After being told that I do not need to go down to my father's house to help some more with the flooding damage, and since I took today off to do just that, I have already smoked a bowl, and I plan on going to lunch where I will surely knock back a few Dogfish. Way ahead of ya....

If I jumped the gun, then so be it. I won't apologize for being stressed out and angry about the state of American society: See brianlux's post on why he's leaving AMT. I am taking it a step further and heading to Europe in less than a year. I can't wait.

Also, your mocking, smug reply was unnecessary.

Because everyone always thinks the couple of people they talk to have all the answers. And I thought it was funny the way you added your "2 cents" but then called people that don't agree with each of those points idiots and fools that know nothing.

Look, I'm sure your friends are terrific at what they do. That hardly makes them experts in all areas. And your post went far away from focusing on fiscal policy and just started to be a bash the tea party and republicans and the people that vote for them post that I've seen a million times. I doubt your millionaire friends are experts on any of that.

Have fun in Europe. I would like to travel back there again soon. Some beautiful places there. And great choice in beer by the way. Sorry to hear about your families flooding damage as well. Have a great weekend.

cincybearcat · September 2011

whygohome wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Yep if 2 guys say it, it must be true.

The point of this post?

By the way, I will apologize as I should have added more text with my opinions of your points rather than just the single statement. So, for that I'm sorry, you are correct, you didn't deserve the mocking.

not that it's an excuse, but I love the feeling of Fridays!

whygohome · September 2011

mikepegg44 wrote:

whygohome wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Your conclusion ignores the fact that everything Obama has done has hurt the economy since he took office. (yay! 9.1% unemployment - but 15% poverty - bravismo! I know before it was Bush's fault, and now it's the new majority's fault. 2 years of total political dominance is no opportunity to get anything done around these parts). So, stopping him at every turn is exactly what the country needed. Now, I'm not saying we need these other clowns, either.

Just my two cents: I just spent the past two weekends--including PJ20--with two high school friends who work in the financial industry: one as a commodities trader and one, an ivy-leaguer (oohhh, evil..) who just semi-retired form the largest trading company in the nation at 31 and started his own company. The bottom line: both are millionaires in their early 30s and both are geniuses when it comes to finance, economics, the banking industry, and the markets.

They share a consensus:
1. the bull shit of Obama is anti-business and hurting the economy is downright idiotic.
2. The highest level of Wall St, Banking, etc, execs, care nothing about the American public, and only care about ways that they can make $0 million a year instead of $30 million a year
3. trickle-down economics is the most laughable idea
4. low taxes on "job creators" is just as laughable as trickle-down. Where are the jobs now that taxes (esp. capital gains) have been at the lowest level in decades?
5. the Tea Party are nothing but corporate (Koch) funded, zombified, brainless hicks/fools who are rallying and voting against their best interests.
6. raise taxes on traders and those in the industry who contribute nothing to society
7. The Right should be praised for their amazing ability at spreading propaganda to the uneducated, ignorant masses

You can doubt me all you want, but I would say it is not a smart thing to doubt those who are millionaires in their early 30s and those who have actual experience and knowledge--two things which are obviously not as important as the opinions of fools who know nothing.

I am not saying I don't believe you, but could you elaborate about the points they made in bold. I am interested in a discussion, not trying to antagonize.

I will try my best. They are the ones with the deep financial, economic knowledge; I am just a lowly English teacher.

1. They cite the fact that CEO pay is up (in a recession) and the fact that the market was experiencing a turnaround in April of this year--it peaked at roughly 12,800. They acknowledge that the rich and the corporate will begin to do better coming out of a recession more quickly than the middle class or Main Street, but they unfortunately see this trend not happening in the current situation. Many companies are turning record profits, but are also laying off workers. They also see that Obama has conceded the fact that he needs to work with (pander in their words) to the corporate elite to have any type of economic improvement begin in this country. They feel that he has done that. This is a consumer driven system and people simply do not have money. it is in the hands of the few. IN one of my friend's words, and in response to those who say that the rich pay the bulk in taxes: "they should! they have all the money"

3. Well, they simply do not see any trickle down when the number of millionaires is increasing and the number of those living in poverty is increasing as well, along with a declining middle-class that has seen wage stagnation for decades. people work longer hours for lower pay. And, both parents are now doing the same. They see the trickle-down as maybe successful on the global scale, but not in this country. The same can be said for the job-creators. They are not creating jobs in the U.S., but instead creating jobs in (mostly) Asia and central America. They do fault NAFTA a bit.

5. There's not much more I can say about this. they don't see the point in middle and lower class, mostly blue-collar workers taking to the streets to protect the interests of the rich and the corporate, the same people who are selling out he U.S. to line their pockets an send jobs overseas. They see it as a giant contradiction. Why are those who will not be affected by tax increases, rallying against them? Why are those who would benefit form infrastructure projects, medicare, and SS, taking to the streets in opposition?

6. One friend says this (and I paraphrase because he has said this often): "I make over 100K a month sitting in front of a computer screen and I play a game. Nurses, teachers, fireman, soldiers, etc. don't see that in a year. Something is seriously wrong. I contribute absolutely nothing to society, so I have no problem paying a higher tax rate to fund education, infrastructure, medicare, SS, etc."
Another friend, at PJ20, said this 9again, I paraphrase): "I'm a smart guy. I graduated #3 in our class, went to UPenn, and then went to work for the largest trading company in the country, as a trader, then as a manager. I could have gone into the sciences, I could have been an engineer; I could have done something better to help people and to make a difference. But instead, I chose this because I love the markets and I love finance. I should give back; and I should give back to those who contribute to society, which is something I don't feel that I do"

Hope this helps.

whygohome · September 2011

cincybearcat wrote:

Because everyone always thinks the couple of people they talk to have all the answers. NOT TRUE IN MY CASE And I thought it was funny the way you added your "2 cents" but then called people that don't agree with each of those points idiots and fools that know nothing. NOT TRUE

Look, I'm sure your friends are terrific at what they do. That hardly makes them experts in all areas. And your post went far away from focusing on fiscal policy and just started to be a bash the tea party and republicans and the people that vote for them post that I've seen a million times. I doubt your millionaire friends are experts on any of that. BUT THEY ARE MAKING CONNECTIONS BETWEEN THOSE INDIVIDUALS AND THE ECONOMICS OF THEIR ARGUMENTS. THAT'S IT

Have fun in Europe. I would like to travel back there again soon. Some beautiful places there. And great choice in beer by the way. Sorry to hear about your families flooding damage as well. Have a great weekend.

Sorry for the caps, just a way to differentiate.
I never said that they have all the answers. I was just offering the opinions of those with knowledge and experience. This is a good thing. And, never did I say that their word was the Truth. I also never called out specific people. We all know people who talk when they shouldn't; we all know that the discourse of this country is grounded in (at times uneducated) opinion, when facts and the words of people with knowledge are too easily dismissed. I don't believe I bashed anyone; I don't have the go to do that. I was simply using the words of individuals who are quite angry and fed up by a movement that they see as invalid. And I will admit, I should have focused on econ/finance/the markets.

whygohome · September 2011

whygohome wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Yep if 2 guys say it, it must be true.

I never said it was the Truth, asshole.

Instead of using that weak smiley, I wish you would laugh in my face like that.

Stupid comments on my part. I apologize to all, especially "cincy." I think we are all a little stressed out these days, some more than others.
But, the smoke did help me chill a bit, as it always does! And the Dogfish will taste so good.

GOP hurting economic recovery....

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