Is it wrong of me to recommend firing this girl?

Thoughts_Arrive · May 2011

Liquidate her.

pjfan31 · May 2011

pandora wrote:

pjfan31 wrote:

Boys, the answer is a resounding no....

pandora, A few of us sat in on the interview. WE voted 2-1 to give her a 3 month trial. The two of us (me being one of them) and the other being the principal of the school who is fantastic. She is great and I would love to one day model my teaching/interactions with the kids on her. The two of us thought that she could grow into the role. Yes 3 months is not long, but sufficient enough to say it isn't working.

Last night, she came up to me in front of one of the parents of a child saying something we were doing wrong(minor, just redtape stuff). In front of the parent.... You would I've worked in customer service for a long time, and you would never say anything negative about workplace infront of a customer.

Ii said 'next time you have something to say like that, please, do not say it in front of a parent as it is extremely unproffessional' Another cross next to her name...

Does she now suspect she is canned? Perhaps.

Yes I thought it was not your sole decision to hire but I still wonder
about taking a young person straight out of high school to fill a position of such responsibility.
Perhaps wage is a consideration... the need to keep it low/ perhaps minimum wage
and those with experience or continuing education may require a better salary.

Also I thought to work with kids there needs to be a license involved.
This license requiring a certain amount of hours in early childhood education.

My other question was did she work with kids before?
Perhaps she is experienced this being why she was chosen.
maybe a mothers helper.
So young, most of the kids I know worked part time,
fast food type summer jobs when they were in high school, often switching jobs.

If it was purely an opportunity given for someone so young I hope she can rise above this failure and not take it to heart because it appears she is probably out of there.

I hope she finds something more suited and her surgeries go well.
I admire her strength and this but one character builder on her path in life.
I'd like to see how she's doing in 10 years... I hope she rocks it!

She has worked at a centre before, and also has some qualifications and is continuing to go to TAFE (which is like a college for not so smart people

)

As for workers, they can't have a criminal record/ crime against children (obviously). Also, we also try to do training days and stuff. You can get qualified through TAFE, which I have never done. But as I am doing a teaching degree, it surpasses that.

I don't think she knows yet, I think she is starting to put an effort in. I also question how the other staff interact with someone who is younger than them (not by much mind you, I am the oldest staff member there at 25) and who is in more power (even though she fails to show).

I too hope for the best for her. I do not dislike her, despite what has been written, but it is just hard...

moemoe · May 2011

pjfan31 wrote:

pandora wrote:

pjfan31 wrote:

Boys, the answer is a resounding no....

pandora, A few of us sat in on the interview. WE voted 2-1 to give her a 3 month trial. The two of us (me being one of them) and the other being the principal of the school who is fantastic. She is great and I would love to one day model my teaching/interactions with the kids on her. The two of us thought that she could grow into the role. Yes 3 months is not long, but sufficient enough to say it isn't working.

Last night, she came up to me in front of one of the parents of a child saying something we were doing wrong(minor, just redtape stuff). In front of the parent.... You would I've worked in customer service for a long time, and you would never say anything negative about workplace infront of a customer.

Ii said 'next time you have something to say like that, please, do not say it in front of a parent as it is extremely unproffessional' Another cross next to her name...

Does she now suspect she is canned? Perhaps.

Yes I thought it was not your sole decision to hire but I still wonder
about taking a young person straight out of high school to fill a position of such responsibility.
Perhaps wage is a consideration... the need to keep it low/ perhaps minimum wage
and those with experience or continuing education may require a better salary.

Also I thought to work with kids there needs to be a license involved.
This license requiring a certain amount of hours in early childhood education.

My other question was did she work with kids before?
Perhaps she is experienced this being why she was chosen.
maybe a mothers helper.
So young, most of the kids I know worked part time,
fast food type summer jobs when they were in high school, often switching jobs.

If it was purely an opportunity given for someone so young I hope she can rise above this failure and not take it to heart because it appears she is probably out of there.

I hope she finds something more suited and her surgeries go well.
I admire her strength and this but one character builder on her path in life.
I'd like to see how she's doing in 10 years... I hope she rocks it!

She has worked at a centre before, and also has some qualifications and is continuing to go to TAFE (which is like a college for not so smart people )

As for workers, they can't have a criminal record/ crime against children (obviously). Also, we also try to do training days and stuff. You can get qualified through TAFE, which I have never done. But as I am doing a teaching degree, it surpasses that.

I don't think she knows yet, I think she is starting to put an effort in. I also question how the other staff interact with someone who is younger than them (not by much mind you, I am the oldest staff member there at 25) and who is in more power (even though she fails to show).

I too hope for the best for her. I do not dislike her, despite what has been written, but it is just hard...

TAFE is like a college for not so smart people? If you were kidding about this...... har de har har.

If you weren't, then um, shame on you. I returned to study at TAFE after a long break raising four kids. I completed a Cert IV in Science first, to re-quaint myself with study and prepare for the concepts I'd be covering in my degree. I then went on to Uni and completed my degree and am now working in my chosen feild. TAFE isn't exactly a college for not so smart people, it's simply an alternative pathway for career goals. None of the people studying in my class were dumbarses, quite the opposite in fact. Most were mature age students who were returning to study to either enhance their current occupation, or to move in a completely different direction from their current one.

Aside from that...... in order for any organization to run smoothly, especially where children are concerned, you need the right people. If this girl isn't up to the standard expected, then gently let her go. I do question the sensibility of employing someone so young for a job (2 IC) with such responsibility though. Even if she looked great on paper, personally I would have started her in a less demanding role and allowed her to work her way up to that responsibility.

Again, if you were kidding on the TAFE comment, har de har har!

so02see · May 2011

I dont know about your employment law but in UK if you fire someone and there is any hint that it is becasue of a health issue that you were warned about before you took them on, then you could be taken to court for unfair dismissal and she would be entitled to compensation.
If she only has a short term contract, you could just let it finish and send her on her way, no explaination needed.
I agree with the other guys, attitude and respect to colleagues and customers is just as much of a job requirement as doing the other day to day tasks. If she can't /won't behave in a professional manner and you keep notes of instances when she acts or speaks out of turn, you have every right to let her go.
I have been in similar situations and dealt with it by having regular weekly one to one discussions with the person about what they think is acceptable and I fed back when I or other team members thought they had contradicted themselves. It might be uncomfortable for you but its part of being in charge of others and trust me, it's worth it and it works.
I'm assuming she wants this job. Not that she wants A job but that she actually wants the job she is doing. If she's going through the motions that might be why she doesnt take it seriously and a chat should bring this to light. You might be doing her a favour to send her off to persue her real interests.

Wilds · May 2011

As someone who has worked in HR for the past ten years and dealt with terminations, you only have one choice.

You must let her go.

You are displaying all of the traits of someone who has all the answers, but won't pull the trigger.

Here is how I handle all employees who are in their trial run. If I was starting my own company, would I hire this person.

'Yes' - she stays
'No' - she goes

Personality is one of the biggest factors for a close working relationship. If she doesn't fit in with you, and especially the expectations of the other board members, THEN STOP TRYING TO MAKE EXCUSES TO KEEP HER.

(In fact what you are doing is making excuses to fire her, which is worse)

Your term has absolutely nothing to do with her injury, you just want to add on as much crap so you don't feel bad.

Guess what, firing people sucks. It feels bad. But sometimes it is the right thing to do for yourself and the organization.

The uppers have made it clear how they feel. You have made it clear how you feel. She is only there on a trial.

She did not pass the trial period.

I would move to immediate separation.

pjfan31 · May 2011

Thanks guys... this has been really helpful this discussion....

AS for TAFE, I spent two years at TAFE. IMO, it was no where near the standard of uni. Students, teachers, courses, attitudes everything. I went to TAFE before uni, and I went into uni completely lost and under-prepared. We were told several times 'basically, if you turn up you will pass.'

Teachers would often cancel their classes at no notice. SO after traveling two hours there just to return home was a joke. Teachers often left mid-term leaving the course incomplete and students twiddling their thumbs. Classes were changed last minute. And the curriculum was no good.

I do recognise that everyones TAFE experience is not like mine. But how we construct our view on the world is through personal experience. And, what I said above is my experience. TAFE is an institution that needs a lot of work. It does not compare to uni at all.

However, I do recognise its importance in furthering someones education. And of course, it is the place to go if you want a trade... So, I was only slightly knocking it...

threefish10 · May 2011

pjfan31 wrote:

Thanks guys... this has been really helpful this discussion....

AS for TAFE, I spent two years at TAFE. IMO, it was no where near the standard of uni. Students, teachers, courses, attitudes everything. I went to TAFE before uni, and I went into uni completely lost and under-prepared. We were told several times 'basically, if you turn up you will pass.

tafe was the drunkest 3 months of my life.

Thoughts_Arrive · May 2011

pjfan31 wrote:

AS for TAFE, I spent two years at TAFE. IMO, it was no where near the standard of uni. Students, teachers, courses, attitudes everything. I went to TAFE before uni, and I went into uni completely lost and under-prepared. We were told several times 'basically, if you turn up you will pass.

haha same here, two years in TAFE, so many idiots there so that they didn't have to work and collect youth allowance from Centerlink.
It was funny seeing them drop like flies, by the end there were a small group of us left.
Then I failed 3/4 of my subjects in my first semester in uni, it was so different to uni and a shock to me.
I didn't treat it seriously enough and was not prepared. I then pulled my socks up and aced it

pjfan31 · May 2011

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

pjfan31 wrote:

AS for TAFE, I spent two years at TAFE. IMO, it was no where near the standard of uni. Students, teachers, courses, attitudes everything. I went to TAFE before uni, and I went into uni completely lost and under-prepared. We were told several times 'basically, if you turn up you will pass.

haha same here, two years in TAFE, so many idiots there so that they didn't have to work and collect youth allowance from Centerlink.
It was funny seeing them drop like flies, by the end there were a small group of us left.
Then I failed 3/4 of my subjects in my first semester in uni, it was so different to uni and a shock to me.
I didn't treat it seriously enough and was not prepared. I then pulled my socks up and aced it

Fair dinkum, this is almost identical to me. However, I passed my subjects. Only just... Nowadays its better.

Getting marks on a wide spectrum, Passes, credits, distinctions, got my 2nd HD in 3 and a half years of uni this week

Hugh Freaking Dillon · May 2011

capability means nothing in a job if there is personal conflict. if the person doesn't fit with others, get rid of her, before it's too late! believe me, my company went through that not long ago. This woman was a NIGHTMARE. My manager asked two of my co workers at the time (before her probation was up) how she was doing. They hated her, but didn't want to be mean and say so. Boy, did we all pay for that. Two full years later of her absolute fucking HELL and they finally canned her ass.

And it had absolutely nothing to do with her work performance.

sandgroper · May 2011

pjfan31 wrote:

TAFE (which is like a college for not so smart people )

It's unfortunate that TAFE has a certain stigma attached to it, and that some people may have had a bad experience going there, but there are exceptions. There are certain fields of study where TAFE is the better option, well in my case anyway

Thoughts_Arrive · May 2011

sandgroper wrote:

pjfan31 wrote:

TAFE (which is like a college for not so smart people )

It's unfortunate that TAFE has a certain stigma attached to it, and that some people may have had a bad experience going there, but there are exceptions. There are certain fields of study where TAFE is the better option, well in my case anyway

I agree.
I reckon TAFE is better, more hands on practical experience.
There are a lot of great paying careers out there where a TAFE diplomas is all that you need.
I had a bad experience in my first semester at TAFE, my class was full of childish troublemakers.
I had one guy call me a faggot in the PC lab because I refused to let him copy my work.
Luckily dickheads like that dropped out by mid year.

Is it wrong of me to recommend firing this girl?

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