Agreed. I'm not in favor of mindless conformity. And I do think people tend to come down too hard on opinions that go against the grain. But hopefully cooler heads and reasonable voices will win out and some honest discussion can take place without the boring "Pearl Jam sucks ass!" "No, they don't!!! YOU suck ass!" back and forth.
We can always ignore them, cencorship of certain lynchpin posts in threads is just sneeky and taking out whole ones that go against the grain too rough is bad news
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Kat
There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,772
So Eddie insulting Good Charlotte and going off on dickhead President Bush and the war is ok but being negative here isn't? The band flipped out after AT&T censored them sharing their negative opinion of Bush. How is that different than censoring stuff here? It's still disrespect.
First of all I'm assuming that there is a level of respect for Pearl Jam that exists here in this message board. If you do hate Pearl Jam like the majority of the U.S. hates Bush, then you are of course free to say that, but one could argue that this is not the place for it.
Wouldn't there be a difference if Eddie Vedder was at the White House and said Bush sucks in Bush's home? I'm pretty sure Eddie would be asked to leave (or have a black bag put over his head and find himself in jail for "questioning" - thank you Patriot Act!).
And wouldn't there be a difference if Eddie Vedder went and posted on the official Good Charlotte message board that GC sucks? I'm sure they would lock it up and tell him to take it somewhere else. Which he would have every right to do... cuz they do suck
You are always free to say whatever you want, no one is taking that away. But all I'm saying is that if you call someone a a**hole in their own house, don't be surprised if they say take it somewhere else. No big deal.
Wow, I've tried to present my opinion on this issue a few times, but it's never been as effectively represented as 'samnation's posts have reflected. Extremely well said and thought out in this thread (in my opinion)... (the one thing I would add after just reading the last post is that there is a crucial difference between Eddie ranting on Bush and the criticisms and rants of this board - the Government are representatives of the people and by proxy are BOUND to listen to any and all opinions of the masses they represent - because like it or not, they represent EVERYONE in a democracy, or at least they're supposed to - that's really where the 'free speech' idea, that everyone throws around in all possible (and many incorrect) contexts, comes from).
'She runs through my veins like a long, black river and rattles my cage like a thunderstorm...' R. Adams.
This place censors so much . I find it a little bit painfully ironic because they have released statements that amount to backing free speech, and are often tenaciously supportive of at least thier own right to speek without being booed down. Now i don't like negative threads, name calling, racist, sexist homo phobic bullshit crosses the line. But if someone wants to rag in thier own thread on the bands shortcomings (and like any they have many) ad infinitum, what the fucks up with the paternalistic shotdown, keeping the product rolling? jst wondering, and please dont post board guidlines, ive read through them and am not a troll. I just want to see justice for people who get censored for being honest, like whoever posted about being let down at some recent concerts.
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I always love how maintaining order in a Moderated Topical Forum is deemed as 'Censorship' and the 'Freedom Of Speech' is infringed upon. Threads normally get locked and/or Deleted due to the disgression of the moderator. and most of those threads are not because of the initial content... but, the ensuing vile words that get spewed across the screen.
No one is censoring your free speech... this is NOT a Public Street... this is a Moderated Forum of Registered Members... some of whom violate the ground rules. It is their messages that gets the threads deleted, not necessarily the over message the originator meant to convey.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
First of all I'm assuming that there is a level of respect for Pearl Jam that exists here in this message board. If you do hate Pearl Jam like the majority of the U.S. hates Bush, then you are of course free to say that, but one could argue that this is not the place for it.
Wouldn't there be a difference if Eddie Vedder was at the White House and said Bush sucks in Bush's home? I'm pretty sure Eddie would be asked to leave (or have a black bag put over his head and find himself in jail for "questioning" - thank you Patriot Act!).
And wouldn't there be a difference if Eddie Vedder went and posted on the official Good Charlotte message board that GC sucks? I'm sure they would lock it up and tell him to take it somewhere else. Which he would have every right to do... cuz they do suck
You are always free to say whatever you want, no one is taking that away. But all I'm saying is that if you call someone a a**hole in their own house, don't be surprised if they say take it somewhere else. No big deal.
If only you werent oversimplifying to the point of not making sense, we both agree over the top name calling is not cool, its not the same as swearing and being crude, nor does it seem to be categorically the only reason for censorship. If you say - eddie vedder is an asshole, maybe that is worth censoring if it is totally hateful and pointless, but if you say he was an asshole when he said those things to that little girl who flashed him at the show I was just at and you get censored, thats not cool - but entirely what you seem ok condoning.
other threads and posts may dissapear which have no name calling, but are anti this or that issue related to pj
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I always love how maintaining order in a Moderated Topical Forum is deemed as 'Censorship' and the 'Freedom Of Speech' is infringed upon. Threads normally get locked and/or Deleted due to the disgression of the moderator. and most of those threads are not because of the initial content... but, the ensuing vile words that get spewed across the screen.
No one is censoring your free speech... this is NOT a Public Street... this is a Moderated Forum of Registered Members... some of whom violate the ground rules. It is their messages that gets the threads deleted, not necessarily the over message the originator meant to convey.
not too many people beleieve in unconditional freedom of speech, i think pj are exceptioal also in that they stand up for free speech often and call it whatever you like, cutting posts and threads here in cesorship by defination,
If only you werent oversimplifying to the point of not making sense, we both agree over the top name calling is not cool, its not the same as swearing and being crude, nor does it seem to be categorically the only reason for censorship. If you say - eddie vedder is an asshole, maybe that is worth censoring if it is totally hateful and pointless, but if you say he was an asshole when he said those things to that little girl who flashed him at the show I was just at and you get censored, thats not cool - but entirely what you seem ok condoning.
other threads and posts may dissapear which have no name calling, but are anti this or that issue related to pj
Well obviously I'm not a moderator of this board so I can't vouch for their decisions or what the circumstances were in every thread that comes under scrutiny. But I have had some experience moderating other boards and in general it's a case-by-case situation. So in order to speak on this in a general way I am definitely simplifying things.
When I was a moderator, I remember that there were some people who really only posted things to get a rise out of people and start flame wars. So if a person like that posted "[Main Person] is an a**hole!", there would be a pretty good reason to believe it served no purpose other than to get people worked up and spitting venom. And who needs that? But if someone said "[Main Person] is an a**hole!" in the context of a legitimate complaint (no one is perfect, people f*ck up, even rock stars) then it would probably deserve a listen.
If we can steer the conversation in a more constructive direction instead of name-calling and over-emotional tirades, then we can all benefit from what's being discussed. Maybe Eddie was an a**hole, let's talk about it instead of shouting "No, YOU'RE the a**hole!" or "Yes, he is the HUGEST a**hole on the entire planet!"
not too many people beleieve in unconditional freedom of speech, i think pj are exceptioal also in that they stand up for free speech often and call it whatever you like, cutting posts and threads here in cesorship by defination,
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Are you speaking in General Terms... or are you addressing a specific case?
Because in General... as I am stating... the threads I have witnessed getting deleted are the ones that degenerate into ones where personal name calling and/or threats are made.
In General terms... you want those tossed out to maintane order.
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And there is no such thing as unconditional free Speech anywhere in the United States... the whole shouting "FIRE!!!" in a crowded theater thing... or just try making statements about bombs and guns the next time you are at the airport. There ARE conditions on free speech... whether you believe in unconditional free speech or not.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Well obviously I'm not a moderator of this board so I can't vouch for their decisions or what the circumstances were in every thread that comes under scrutiny. But I have had some experience moderating other boards and in general it's a case-by-case situation. So in order to speak on this in a general way I am definitely simplifying things.
When I was a moderator, I remember that there were some people who really only posted things to get a rise out of people and start flame wars. So if a person like that posted "[Main Person] is an a**hole!", there would be a pretty good reason to believe it served no purpose other than to get people worked up and spitting venom. And who needs that? But if someone said "[Main Person] is an a**hole!" in the context of a legitimate complaint (no one is perfect, people f*ck up, even rock stars) then it would probably deserve a listen.
If we can steer the conversation in a more constructive direction instead of name-calling and over-emotional tirades, then we can all benefit from what's being discussed. Maybe Eddie was an a**hole, let's talk about it instead of shouting "No, YOU'RE the a**hole!" or "Yes, he is the HUGEST a**hole on the entire planet!"
Either way, if a post has no interst and is pure profanity it would have no interst and would sink anyway. Informal sanctions like social remonstrations work, i just don't liek the heavy handedness ive seen with some posts and the posters may have been negatively affected unjustly, for instance when a thread they started about losing all faith in pearl jam is not only bashed but censored. ive never seen a thread entielry based on calling someone an asshole but sounds like an over the top easy choice type for a thread kill, my issue is that soemtimes over the last few years ive noticed a questionable - not entirely corrupt at all, maybe even well meaning - margin for censorship whcih in my opinion strays from obvious cases to ones that leave bad tastes and are worth wondering, even discussing about whether its cool, or heaven forbid we should just go be rmers for life. Peace to whoevers moderating too but I wanted to air this out - I am grateful for the chance.
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Are you speaking in General Terms... or are you addressing a specific case?
Because in General... as I am stating... the threads I have witnessed getting deleted are the ones that degenerate into ones where personal name calling and/or threats are made.
In General terms... you want those tossed out to maintane order.
...
And there is no such thing as unconditional free Speech anywhere in the United States... the whole shouting "FIRE!!!" in a crowded theater thing... or just try making statements about bombs and guns the next time you are at the airport. There ARE conditions on free speech... whether you believe in unconditional free speech or not.
the yelling fire example is familir to me, i am not saying total freedom, just more transparant censorship where to be honest, an important issue (music) and often very good music is being discussed. ive read the rules here and want to be in compliance, my threads are not high on the censored list, i just see a slightly shadowy trend and reacted fianlly
the yelling fire example is familir to me, i am not saying total freedom, just more transparant censorship where to be honest, an important issue (music) and often very good music is being discussed. ive read the rules here and want to be in compliance, my threads are not high on the censored list, i just see a slightly shadowy trend and reacted fianlly
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We agree... there is no such thing as unconditional Free Speech. Good.
Now, regarding the alleged 'censorship' that is going on in here... is it censorship... or moderation?
You spoke of a thread about a guy 'losing faith in Pearl Jam' that got a lot of bashing and ultimately got deleted. I missed that one.
Was the thread deleted due to the initial content... 'losing faith in Pearl Jam'?
Or was the thread deleted because some of the 'bashing' got out of hand?
The former is censorship... the latter is moderation. How do you know it was censorship on the part of the board's moderator?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Also... if the moderators had as sick of a sense of humor as I do... they'd delete this thread.
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It'd be funny... wouldn't it? I think so... because of my sick sense of humor... which is why I wouldn't make a very good moderator.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Well, Ive said my two cents, peace and love to all, just wanted to air out something that has irked me when I notice post and thread deletes that are in my opinion slightly questionable. Cosmo, I dont really know what you are getting at, I'm short of brain power these days. thanks for the reply though. Time to get back to work or I'll be getting censored by the attendant at the local job bank on my next broadcast.
Also... if the moderators had as sick of a sense of humor as I do... they'd delete this thread.
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It'd be funny... wouldn't it? I think so... because of my sick sense of humor... which is why I wouldn't make a very good moderator.
I was hoping it would go down that way, i wouldn't have said anything and had a much needed laugh
So Eddie insulting Good Charlotte and going off on dickhead President Bush and the war is ok but being negative here isn't?
Who said you can't be negative? There are many, many, many negative threads on this board right this second. You don't have to try very hard to find them.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Everyone was pretty brutal in bashing the guy(were they wrong?), but it wasn't deleted or censored in any way. Maybe it was some other thread though.
6-27-98 Alpine Valley
10-8-00 Alpine Valley
10-9-00 All State Arena, Chicago
4-23-03 Assembly Hall, Champaign
5-16-06 United Center, Chicago
6-30-06 Marcus Amphitheater, Milwaukee
8-05-07 Grant Park, Chicago
8-21-08 EV, Auditorium Theater, Chicago
8-22-08 EV, Auditorium Theater, Chicago
Everyone was pretty brutal in bashing the guy(were they wrong?), but it wasn't deleted or censored in any way. Maybe it was some other thread though.
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Oh yeah... that dude. He went to 8 gigs and was pissed that each one wasn't completely different or some crazy shit. Kind of a, "Well.. what the hell did you expect?" kind of thing, right?
And it's still here... I'm trying to think which one got deleted. I must have missed it.
And i admit to being moderated... not censored. I got 5 for fighting a while ago for calling a lying sack of shit... "a lying sack of shit" over in the Moving Train. The thread got deleted, not because of what the original message said... it was because me and the lying sack of shit were getting into it.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Comments
We can always ignore them, cencorship of certain lynchpin posts in threads is just sneeky and taking out whole ones that go against the grain too rough is bad news
You can view your own profile and click on the link that finds the last 300 of your posts. That limit is set because Searches are server intensive.
First of all I'm assuming that there is a level of respect for Pearl Jam that exists here in this message board. If you do hate Pearl Jam like the majority of the U.S. hates Bush, then you are of course free to say that, but one could argue that this is not the place for it.
Wouldn't there be a difference if Eddie Vedder was at the White House and said Bush sucks in Bush's home? I'm pretty sure Eddie would be asked to leave (or have a black bag put over his head and find himself in jail for "questioning" - thank you Patriot Act!).
And wouldn't there be a difference if Eddie Vedder went and posted on the official Good Charlotte message board that GC sucks? I'm sure they would lock it up and tell him to take it somewhere else. Which he would have every right to do... cuz they do suck
You are always free to say whatever you want, no one is taking that away. But all I'm saying is that if you call someone a a**hole in their own house, don't be surprised if they say take it somewhere else. No big deal.
Thanks Kat.
I always love how maintaining order in a Moderated Topical Forum is deemed as 'Censorship' and the 'Freedom Of Speech' is infringed upon. Threads normally get locked and/or Deleted due to the disgression of the moderator. and most of those threads are not because of the initial content... but, the ensuing vile words that get spewed across the screen.
No one is censoring your free speech... this is NOT a Public Street... this is a Moderated Forum of Registered Members... some of whom violate the ground rules. It is their messages that gets the threads deleted, not necessarily the over message the originator meant to convey.
Hail, Hail!!!
If only you werent oversimplifying to the point of not making sense, we both agree over the top name calling is not cool, its not the same as swearing and being crude, nor does it seem to be categorically the only reason for censorship. If you say - eddie vedder is an asshole, maybe that is worth censoring if it is totally hateful and pointless, but if you say he was an asshole when he said those things to that little girl who flashed him at the show I was just at and you get censored, thats not cool - but entirely what you seem ok condoning.
other threads and posts may dissapear which have no name calling, but are anti this or that issue related to pj
not too many people beleieve in unconditional freedom of speech, i think pj are exceptioal also in that they stand up for free speech often and call it whatever you like, cutting posts and threads here in cesorship by defination,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgiR04ey7-M
Well obviously I'm not a moderator of this board so I can't vouch for their decisions or what the circumstances were in every thread that comes under scrutiny. But I have had some experience moderating other boards and in general it's a case-by-case situation. So in order to speak on this in a general way I am definitely simplifying things.
When I was a moderator, I remember that there were some people who really only posted things to get a rise out of people and start flame wars. So if a person like that posted "[Main Person] is an a**hole!", there would be a pretty good reason to believe it served no purpose other than to get people worked up and spitting venom. And who needs that? But if someone said "[Main Person] is an a**hole!" in the context of a legitimate complaint (no one is perfect, people f*ck up, even rock stars) then it would probably deserve a listen.
If we can steer the conversation in a more constructive direction instead of name-calling and over-emotional tirades, then we can all benefit from what's being discussed. Maybe Eddie was an a**hole, let's talk about it instead of shouting "No, YOU'RE the a**hole!" or "Yes, he is the HUGEST a**hole on the entire planet!"
Are you speaking in General Terms... or are you addressing a specific case?
Because in General... as I am stating... the threads I have witnessed getting deleted are the ones that degenerate into ones where personal name calling and/or threats are made.
In General terms... you want those tossed out to maintane order.
...
And there is no such thing as unconditional free Speech anywhere in the United States... the whole shouting "FIRE!!!" in a crowded theater thing... or just try making statements about bombs and guns the next time you are at the airport. There ARE conditions on free speech... whether you believe in unconditional free speech or not.
Hail, Hail!!!
Either way, if a post has no interst and is pure profanity it would have no interst and would sink anyway. Informal sanctions like social remonstrations work, i just don't liek the heavy handedness ive seen with some posts and the posters may have been negatively affected unjustly, for instance when a thread they started about losing all faith in pearl jam is not only bashed but censored. ive never seen a thread entielry based on calling someone an asshole but sounds like an over the top easy choice type for a thread kill, my issue is that soemtimes over the last few years ive noticed a questionable - not entirely corrupt at all, maybe even well meaning - margin for censorship whcih in my opinion strays from obvious cases to ones that leave bad tastes and are worth wondering, even discussing about whether its cool, or heaven forbid we should just go be rmers for life. Peace to whoevers moderating too but I wanted to air this out - I am grateful for the chance.
the yelling fire example is familir to me, i am not saying total freedom, just more transparant censorship where to be honest, an important issue (music) and often very good music is being discussed. ive read the rules here and want to be in compliance, my threads are not high on the censored list, i just see a slightly shadowy trend and reacted fianlly
We agree... there is no such thing as unconditional Free Speech. Good.
Now, regarding the alleged 'censorship' that is going on in here... is it censorship... or moderation?
You spoke of a thread about a guy 'losing faith in Pearl Jam' that got a lot of bashing and ultimately got deleted. I missed that one.
Was the thread deleted due to the initial content... 'losing faith in Pearl Jam'?
Or was the thread deleted because some of the 'bashing' got out of hand?
The former is censorship... the latter is moderation. How do you know it was censorship on the part of the board's moderator?
Hail, Hail!!!
...
It'd be funny... wouldn't it? I think so... because of my sick sense of humor... which is why I wouldn't make a very good moderator.
Hail, Hail!!!
I was hoping it would go down that way, i wouldn't have said anything and had a much needed laugh
Who said you can't be negative? There are many, many, many negative threads on this board right this second. You don't have to try very hard to find them.
for the least they could possibly do
Everyone was pretty brutal in bashing the guy(were they wrong?), but it wasn't deleted or censored in any way. Maybe it was some other thread though.
10-8-00 Alpine Valley
10-9-00 All State Arena, Chicago
4-23-03 Assembly Hall, Champaign
5-16-06 United Center, Chicago
6-30-06 Marcus Amphitheater, Milwaukee
8-05-07 Grant Park, Chicago
8-21-08 EV, Auditorium Theater, Chicago
8-22-08 EV, Auditorium Theater, Chicago
I almost think the OP doesn't realize that just because a thread slips off the first page doesn't mean it was deleted.
That one wasn't very hard to find on the second page.
for the least they could possibly do
Oh yeah... that dude. He went to 8 gigs and was pissed that each one wasn't completely different or some crazy shit. Kind of a, "Well.. what the hell did you expect?" kind of thing, right?
And it's still here... I'm trying to think which one got deleted. I must have missed it.
And i admit to being moderated... not censored. I got 5 for fighting a while ago for calling a lying sack of shit... "a lying sack of shit" over in the Moving Train. The thread got deleted, not because of what the original message said... it was because me and the lying sack of shit were getting into it.
Hail, Hail!!!