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Pit Censorship

MohabMohab Posts: 310
edited July 2008 in The Porch
This place censors so much . I find it a little bit painfully ironic because they have released statements that amount to backing free speech, and are often tenaciously supportive of at least thier own right to speek without being booed down. Now i don't like negative threads, name calling, racist, sexist homo phobic bullshit crosses the line. But if someone wants to rag in thier own thread on the bands shortcomings (and like any they have many) ad infinitum, what the fucks up with the paternalistic shotdown, keeping the product rolling? jst wondering, and please dont post board guidlines, ive read through them and am not a troll. I just want to see justice for people who get censored for being honest, like whoever posted about being let down at some recent concerts.
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    slightofjeffslightofjeff Posts: 7,758
    I'd need an example of said "censorship." There seem to be people bitching left and right, pretty much unfettered.

    Also, it's a private message board. There is no such thing as "free speech."
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
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    hopethatuchokehopethatuchoke Posts: 2,930
    slightofjeff wrote:
    I'd need an example of said "censorship."


    He can't really show an example of something that has been deleted.
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    slightofjeffslightofjeff Posts: 7,758
    hopethatuchoke wrote:
    He can't really show an example of something that has been deleted.

    I don't need a link. I'll take his word for it.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
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    LizardLizard So Cal Posts: 12,073
    hopethatuchoke wrote:
    He can't really show an example of something that has been deleted.

    D'oh.
    So I'll just lie down and wait for the dream
    Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
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    DiRtYyELLoWoCeAnDiRtYyELLoWoCeAn Medford, Ma Posts: 1,605
    There has been all sorts of name calling and swearing without censorship or repremend as of late around here....... and like slightofjeff said it is a private board by joing you agree to "their rules"
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    slightofjeffslightofjeff Posts: 7,758
    My point is, if they really are censoring all negative opinions about the band ... they sure are doing a lousy job of it.

    Look around.

    People bitching about setlists.
    People bitching about posters.
    People bitching because tickets cost too much.
    People bitching because they couldn't get tickets at all.

    Where's "censorship" when you need it?
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
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    hrd2imgnhrd2imgn Southwest Burbs of Chicago Posts: 4,869
    it sounds real juvenile, but there really is no need for name calling on the board unless it is geared towards a poilitician/terrorist
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    mattcozeamattcozea Posts: 377
    Mohab wrote:
    I just want to see justice for people who get censored for being honest, like whoever posted about being let down at some recent concerts.
    The thread is still there, it wasn't locked or deleted, so how was he censored?
    6-27-98 Alpine Valley
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    MohabMohab Posts: 310
    maybe they should have ahall of what gets censored for review or soemthing, ive just seem stuff go down that MAYBE shouldn't have, and according to the liberal free specch principles like dont drown out a bad opinion casue it may bring other better opinions to light etc are clearly in question, thats all im saying.
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    Evacuation RulesEvacuation Rules Posts: 2,162
    It's funny you should mention it, since a post I made yesterday seems to have vanished. It was a post about the 2008 boots and how crappy they sound.
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    samnationsamnation Los Angeles, CA Posts: 277
    Obviously this topic has been discussed at length over the years. But what I always come back to is that criticism and complaints should of course always be allowed, but there is a way to do it that is respectful & progressive and there is also a way to do it that is disrespectful & regressive.

    Example: there is a big difference between "I really, really didn't like the last Pearl Jam album. It just was not as good as their earlier stuff" and "The last Pearl Jam hunk'a'crap was the worst piece of sh*t this lame band has ever puked out. What losers!!!" The first statement would not get your post locked or deleted but the second one might - both saying essentially the same thing. It's not about whether or not you can criticize the band, it's about respect.

    And that is pretty much the same anywhere you go. If you go to eat in a restaurant and you don't like the food, you can tell the host or the manager that you are unhappy and often times they will try and work it out. But if you stand on the table and start yelling obscenities, chances are they will call the cops and have you arrested, plus ban you from coming back.
    Sam
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    Laura in NJLaura in NJ Posts: 176
    On the Allman Brothers message boards, there is a separate thread entitled "Whipping Post." It is designed to be a place to make your point and do it to death, and you are supposed to keep some relationship to the ABB. It works really well over there. Why not create a similar thread here, and confine all the bitching and moaning posts to that location? The moderators here could then move any offending posts there and lock any thread started with that type of topic.

    We could even call it "Whipping." LOL
    Laura in NJ
    4-17-1994 Paramount Theater, NYC
    6-20-1995 Red Rocks (Sponsored By No One tour)
    6-23-1998 Fiddler’s Green, CO
    7-09-2003 MSG NYC
    9-28-2004 Fleet Center, Boston (Vote For Change warmup)
    6-01-2006 & 6-03-2006 E. Rutherford, NJ
    6-25-2008 MSG NYC * 7-07-2008 EV NJPAC
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    MohabMohab Posts: 310
    whipping post - good call
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    smithnicsmithnic Posts: 1,559
    Who gives a flying whatever if someone insults you on the internet? Bunch of babies. They are just words from someone who doesn't know you at all!
    Go Get 'Em Tigers!
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    MohabMohab Posts: 310
    samnation wrote:
    Obviously this topic has been discussed at length over the years. But what I always come back to is that criticism and complaints should of course always be allowed, but there is a way to do it that is respectful & progressive and there is also a way to do it that is disrespectful & regressive.

    Example: there is a big difference between "I really, really didn't like the last Pearl Jam album. It just was not as good as their earlier stuff" and "The last Pearl Jam hunk'a'crap was the worst piece of sh*t this lame band has ever puked out. What losers!!!" The first statement would not get your post locked or deleted but the second one might - both saying essentially the same thing. It's not about whether or not you can criticize the band, it's about respect.

    And that is pretty much the same anywhere you go. If you go to eat in a restaurant and you don't like the food, you can tell the host or the manager that you are unhappy and often times they will try and work it out. But if you stand on the table and start yelling obscenities, chances are they will call the cops and have you arrested, plus ban you from coming back.


    this aint no fancy restaurant. some people swear and use crude langauage but have no less to say
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    mattcozeamattcozea Posts: 377
    JWBusher wrote:
    It's funny you should mention it, since a post I made yesterday seems to have vanished. It was a post about the 2008 boots and how crappy they sound.
    This one? http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?p=5625547#post5625547
    6-27-98 Alpine Valley
    10-8-00 Alpine Valley
    10-9-00 All State Arena, Chicago
    4-23-03 Assembly Hall, Champaign
    5-16-06 United Center, Chicago
    6-30-06 Marcus Amphitheater, Milwaukee
    8-05-07 Grant Park, Chicago
    8-21-08 EV, Auditorium Theater, Chicago
    8-22-08 EV, Auditorium Theater, Chicago
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    MohabMohab Posts: 310
    mattcoz wrote:
    This one? http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=291731

    dude, your way off base thinking cencorship isnt going on, stop trying to nit pick when it is a long standing debate, maybe you have something else to add, or maybe not
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    Laura in NJLaura in NJ Posts: 176
    JWBusher wrote:
    It's funny you should mention it, since a post I made yesterday seems to have vanished. It was a post about the 2008 boots and how crappy they sound.

    No, it's there. I just read it:

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=293353

    and the ones in here:

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=291731&page=9

    and here:

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=290840

    It looks like your boot comments are pretty much intact.
    Laura in NJ
    4-17-1994 Paramount Theater, NYC
    6-20-1995 Red Rocks (Sponsored By No One tour)
    6-23-1998 Fiddler’s Green, CO
    7-09-2003 MSG NYC
    9-28-2004 Fleet Center, Boston (Vote For Change warmup)
    6-01-2006 & 6-03-2006 E. Rutherford, NJ
    6-25-2008 MSG NYC * 7-07-2008 EV NJPAC
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    mattcozeamattcozea Posts: 377
    Mohab wrote:
    dude, your way off base thinking cencorship isnt going on, stop trying to nit pick when it is a long standing debate, maybe you have something else to add, or maybe not
    Well I haven't seen any, and I just wanted to know of an example. Without an example I can't really give my opinion on whether or not it was appropriate.
    6-27-98 Alpine Valley
    10-8-00 Alpine Valley
    10-9-00 All State Arena, Chicago
    4-23-03 Assembly Hall, Champaign
    5-16-06 United Center, Chicago
    6-30-06 Marcus Amphitheater, Milwaukee
    8-05-07 Grant Park, Chicago
    8-21-08 EV, Auditorium Theater, Chicago
    8-22-08 EV, Auditorium Theater, Chicago
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    MohabMohab Posts: 310
    mattcoz wrote:
    Well I haven't seen any, and I just wanted to know of an example. Without an example I can't really give my opinion on whether or not it was appropriate.

    Too bad, I'd like to hear it, but can't really think of a way to post that info. Sorry to have been a bit of a dick on my last post.
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    samnationsamnation Los Angeles, CA Posts: 277
    Mohab wrote:
    this aint no fancy restaurant. some people swear and use crude langauage but have no less to say

    the point being that there are rules of conduct everywhere you go that we all choose to agree to or not. And being rude and disrespectful is not just about using "crude language."

    If I go to a baseball game and don't want to get kicked out, I have to agree to not start fights, run on to the field, yell "c*cksucker!" every 10 seconds into the face of everyone around me, etc. Otherwise I will be asked to leave and eventually forced to leave. Our freedom is our ability to simply leave and go somewhere else if we don't like the rules.

    P.S. I think even McDonald's would kick you out if you stood on the tables and starting yelling obscenities. It's not just a "fancy restaurant" thing. :)
    Sam
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    teflonsteveteflonsteve Posts: 275
    Its pretty hypocritical that a band that supports free speech has a message board run by some power hungry mods.
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    slightofjeffslightofjeff Posts: 7,758
    teflonsteve wrote:
    Its pretty hypocritical that a band that supports free speech has a message board run by some power hungry mods.

    again ... could someone give us an example of how this is true? There are a lot of threads out there full of complaints about the band. Why weren't they all erased or locked? Where's the censorship?

    One person came on here and made the accusation, but since has done nothing to back it up. I think I'm going to make a thread saying, "It was wrong for Stone Gossard to make out with my grandma" and see how much support I can drum up.

    Also, "free speech" has nothing to do with it. You'll be surprised to know there is nothing in the Bill of Rights about private Internet message boards.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
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    lockedlocked Boston Posts: 4,004
    Mohab wrote:
    whipping post - good call

    agreed!
    "This here's a REQUEST!"
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    MohabMohab Posts: 310
    samnation wrote:
    the point being that there are rules of conduct everywhere you go that we all choose to agree to or not. And being rude and disrespectful is not just about using "crude language."

    If I go to a baseball game and don't want to get kicked out, I have to agree to not start fights, run on to the field, yell "c*cksucker!" every 10 seconds into the face of everyone around me, etc. Otherwise I will be asked to leave and eventually forced to leave. Our freedom is our ability to simply leave and go somewhere else if we don't like the rules.

    P.S. I think even McDonald's would kick you out if you stood on the tables and starting yelling obscenities. It's not just a "fancy restaurant" thing. :)

    i hear you, there are limits. not sure they are clear and ive seen sometimes it looks like they are honestly protecting their jobs and site commerce more than honest hardcore jam fans. Thats a little over the top i admit, but i'm no longer surprised by that kind of thing, just at finding it in a pearl jam pit of all places. I mean, i do love them, but like with family sometimes brutal honesty can be really ugly, but should not be shied away from in light of preserving a blissful state of mind indefinately.
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    Evacuation RulesEvacuation Rules Posts: 2,162
    mattcoz wrote:
    This one? http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?p=5625547#post5625547

    Thank you, yes. It can be confusing keeping track of threads and posts in here.
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    hopethatuchokehopethatuchoke Posts: 2,930
    So Eddie insulting Good Charlotte and going off on dickhead President Bush and the war is ok but being negative here isn't? The band flipped out after AT&T censored them sharing their negative opinion of Bush. How is that different than censoring stuff here? It's still disrespect.

    For the record, I hate Good Charlotte and Bush but I don't see a difference. It's still name calling. It has been really negative around here but the best thing to do is stay away from those threads. I don't agree with things being censored around here but it is their right to do it.
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    MohabMohab Posts: 310
    slightofjeff wrote:
    again ... could someone give us an example of how this is true? There are a lot of threads out there full of complaints about the band. Why weren't they all erased or locked? Where's the censorship?

    One person came on here and made the accusation, but since has done nothing to back it up. I think I'm going to make a thread saying, "It was wrong for Stone Gossard to make out with my grandma" and see how much support I can drum up.

    Also, "free speech" has nothing to do with it. You'll be surprised to know there is nothing in the Bill of Rights about private Internet message boards.

    I dont get kicks by drumming up drama. i am not posting for fun, i could also just forget the threads anyone who has been here long enough can attest to seeing. Make a thread like you mentioned and see where it takes you
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    samnationsamnation Los Angeles, CA Posts: 277
    Mohab wrote:
    i hear you, there are limits. not sure they are clear and ive seen sometimes it looks like they are honestly protecting their jobs and site commerce more than honest hardcore jam fans. Thats a little over the top i admit, but i'm no longer surprised by that kind of thing, just at finding it in a pearl jam pit of all places. I mean, i do love them, but like with family sometimes brutal honesty can be really ugly, but should not be shied away from in light of preserving a blissful state of mind indefinately.

    Agreed. I'm not in favor of mindless conformity. And I do think people tend to come down too hard on opinions that go against the grain. But hopefully cooler heads and reasonable voices will win out and some honest discussion can take place without the boring "Pearl Jam sucks ass!" "No, they don't!!! YOU suck ass!" back and forth.
    Sam
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    Evacuation RulesEvacuation Rules Posts: 2,162
    I haven't made too many friends here because of my opinionated posts, but that's just how I am. Some places I get kicked out immediately, and other places it endears me to just about everyone. Pearl Jam has their share of over-sensitive fans...the kind that would complain to a security guard if someone was smoking a joint ;)
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