Tea party vs. Unions

gimmesometruth27 · March 2011

Jasunmark wrote:

bennett13 wrote:

Whoa, dude....you're all over the place with your rants now.....stay focused.

That's kinda my point.

They promised to stay focused from "day one" on jobs but so far all we've seen are silly wedge issues like abortion, gay marriage and now unions (to bring it back to the OP) to distract us from the FACT that the jobs are probably never coming back. We've out-sourced them to India and China and those people are doing them for slave wages... and we're fucked.

you make some excellent points here jason. it has been 4 months since the election. where are the jobs? fuck it, we are stripping collective bargaining rights, defunding women's health, and focusing on anything BUT the obvious lack of jobs and how that is affecting the economy....

mikepegg44 · March 2011

Jasunmark wrote:

Someone needs to calm down a little, I think.

good response

markin ball · March 2011

mikepegg44 wrote:

jasunmark,

how I would like to believe????? I am a fucking public employees union member AFSCME 2822

87 million, 87,000,000 of the dollars forcefully collected FROM ME and others like me WHO ARE ACTUALLY
FORCED IN a public employees union that were given by AFSCME to democratic candidates all around the country. And if you think the democrats are thinking about the people you are mistaken, they are thinking about what will get me elected just like every other politician. The only liberal I know that was ever simply thinking of the people was Senator Paul Wellstone, and when he died so did my faith in government. So please before you try to simply say not true you might want to research it and see that it is the Unions who forcefully take money from all public employees in the state of minnesota, and they turn around and give that money to liberal candidates around the country.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TopStories
but you are right, it is okay for the unions to forcefully take money and then turn around and spend that money on democrats only, who then vote to keep the unions ability to forcefully take money...seems cyclical to me...
And don't even get me started on the union basically paying for campaigns of state democrats so they can do things like denying Right to Work legislations...Tell me if unions are so great, why are they afraid of employees having a choice?

it is fucking garbage and the democrats are as in bed with the unions as the so called republicans are with big business...

By the way, I am very libertarian, just to set the record straight, I dislike republicans about as much as I dislike democrats...

I

You should not be forced to join the union and it is a huge problem that they donate to politically with your money but maybe the problem is just the fact that this is allowed. Why do we have to eradicate collective bargaining? Why can't we just change these obviously bullshit laws and rules? I'm not accusing you of this, Mike, but there is such a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" mentality these days.

Go Beavers · March 2011

"Basically, I believe in small limited government, personal freedom and accountability (which go hand-in-hand), including the right to defend oneself against those that would do you harm (yes, with a firearm if necessary), the duty to protect the American people from foreign enemies through military strength, capitalism, and above all, the United States Constitution, especially the Bill of Rights.[/quote]"

I'm curious how "small limited government, personal freedom, and accountability" translate into policy. I hear Republicans repeat this over and over and not see it translate. Military strength to me means giant government and enormous spending on one of our largest "socialist" programs. What laws would you drop that encourage personal freedom? How would you increase accountability? To me, accountability means you enforce a rule or law of some kind.

Go Beavers · March 2011

"Actually, now that I think about it, that's not true....I changed my affiliation to "Independent" after seeing the GOP steer away from those principles. Additionally, I became frustrated with the GOP's focus on "social" issues such as gay marriage when there were much more pressing issues to be addressed, such as the crumbling economy and the threat of Islamic extremism. There seems to be some indication of a return to those principles (especially on the fiscal front), but I'm a skeptic, so I'm gonna wait it out and see what happens. "

I think focusing on social issues was done to get rural voters and voters of lower socio-economic status. It's difficult for even the most manipulative Republican to convince people in those groups that they're going to benefit from their economic policies, but if you make a cultural war and create an enemy, then you can get their vote. It's been quite a boondoggle that's sustained over time.

Prince Of Dorkness · March 2011

markin ball wrote:

You should not be forced to join the union and it is a huge problem that they donate to politically with your money but maybe the problem is just the fact that this is allowed. Why do we have to eradicate collective bargaining? Why can't we just change these obviously bullshit laws and rules? I'm not accusing you of this, Mike, but there is such a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" mentality these days.

Yeah, I'll agree with that.

That seems to be the biggest problem politically right now is that we don't want to work together, we want to call each other "dims" and "conservatards" and pass mean-spirited laws just to give the finger to people.

Instead of making Union laws more fair, we want to just get rid of them. Instead of finding some compromise, we want to just chainsaw them.

Much like the disaster in Florida right now with the governor almost literally cutting off the states nose to spite it's face, in Wisconsin, the new bill is just about being mean.

(well, and as we've recently found out, it's also about doing away with unions so the state can sell utility companies with a monopoly in the state to the Koch brothers so they can lower quality, pay minimum wages, do away with work safety standards and raise prices on the people on Wisconsin and make bank.)

cincybearcat · March 2011

Jasunmark wrote:

do away with work safety standards

How so?

Black Diamond · March 2011

I think it was this guy...

Prince Of Dorkness · March 2011

cincybearcat wrote:

Jasunmark wrote:

do away with work safety standards

How so?

Well... it costs money to properly maintain fire extinguishers... and make sure that machinery is all working properly. Air conditioning in factories? That's expensive and it's the kind of thing that only collective bargaining can bring.

yes, there are some government regulations that give a level of safety but the Koch brothers have been chipping away at those, too. When workers are over-worked and in unsafe conditions, accidents can happen.. huge ones.. and it's only things like Unions that have been truly effective at protecting the people.

Look at China and India where line workers die all the time because of malfunctioning, poorly-maintained machinery, people are over-worked into depression and suicide, fires start because of bad wiring because of low standards and hundreds of people die... I mean, these are the things that unions were started FOR.. not just so people could be lazy.

primussucks · March 2011

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Jasunmark wrote:

[quote="bennett13"

you make some excellent points here jason. it has been 4 months since the election. where are the jobs? fuck it, we are stripping collective bargaining rights, defunding women's health, and focusing on anything BUT the obvious lack of jobs and how that is affecting the economy....

Wisconsin has a deficit of 3.6 billion!!! The budget repair bill, which requires state workers to contribute more for health care and pensions will help close the gap! THE ALTERNATIVES-LAYING OFF WORKERS OR RAISING TAXES! 146,000 people have already lost their jobs in the last 2 years in wisconsin! 60,000 have lost their homes! They don't think requiring state employees to pitch in and do what most in the private sector have done already is too much to ask! Its important to remember that those being asked to make modest contributions to their pension and health insurance will still have jobs! Pensions which are disappearing in the private sector, will still be there for them when they retire! Public employees will be paying more for health insurance but still FAR LESS than their average private sector counterparts and the quality of those benefits remain intact! Those 14 Senate Democrats continue to hold up democracy hiding out in Illinois instead of doing their duty as elected officials!!!!
Also, just because Tom Morello can play guitar does NOT give him the right to come into Wisconsin (without educating himself on ALL of the issues) and spread his verbal diahhrea of Raging Against The Machine!!!

Prince Of Dorkness · March 2011

primussucks wrote:

Wisconsin has a deficit of 3.6 billion!!!

Yeah.

And ya know why?

Wisconsin had a surplus just recently. They literally had more money than they needed.

And Scott Walker gave corporations some HUGE tax cuts intentionally to create that deficit. So he could have an excuse to bust the unions. So He could then sell union-free utilities to the Koch Brothers (who funded his campaign and are funding his current ad campaign, by the way). So they can lower everyone's wages, do away with benefits, do away with worker safety, do away with any protections at all AND raise the prices of water and power.. so they can make lots of money.

THAT is who you're supporting. Congratulations. You are helping shit on the American dream. Hope you're proud of yourself.

Prince Of Dorkness · March 2011

and by the way, primussucks, all this bullshit about "everyone pitching in" is tired. and it's a lie.

Because the ultra-rich and corporations aren't pitching in at all. Everyone isn't "pitching in" so much as "getting the shaft."

Funny... I make porn for a living and I fuck fewer people than you've helped fuck over.

Again.. hope you're proud of yourself.

mikepegg44 · March 2011

markin ball wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

jasunmark,

how I would like to believe????? I am a fucking public employees union member AFSCME 2822

87 million, 87,000,000 of the dollars forcefully collected FROM ME and others like me WHO ARE ACTUALLY
FORCED IN a public employees union that were given by AFSCME to democratic candidates all around the country. And if you think the democrats are thinking about the people you are mistaken, they are thinking about what will get me elected just like every other politician. The only liberal I know that was ever simply thinking of the people was Senator Paul Wellstone, and when he died so did my faith in government. So please before you try to simply say not true you might want to research it and see that it is the Unions who forcefully take money from all public employees in the state of minnesota, and they turn around and give that money to liberal candidates around the country.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TopStories
but you are right, it is okay for the unions to forcefully take money and then turn around and spend that money on democrats only, who then vote to keep the unions ability to forcefully take money...seems cyclical to me...
And don't even get me started on the union basically paying for campaigns of state democrats so they can do things like denying Right to Work legislations...Tell me if unions are so great, why are they afraid of employees having a choice?

it is fucking garbage and the democrats are as in bed with the unions as the so called republicans are with big business...

By the way, I am very libertarian, just to set the record straight, I dislike republicans about as much as I dislike democrats...

I

You should not be forced to join the union and it is a huge problem that they donate to politically with your money but maybe the problem is just the fact that this is allowed. Why do we have to eradicate collective bargaining? Why can't we just change these obviously bullshit laws and rules? I'm not accusing you of this, Mike, but there is such a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" mentality these days.

I would agree that compromise is necessary for good government. This issue should never have come to this and walker will suffer the consequences of failing to remember he wasn't just elected to represent the republicans of wisconsin...the best politicians realize they are representing the entire populace...Too few realize it, and even fewer are able to actually do it.

markin ball · March 2011

primussucks wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Jasunmark wrote:

[quote="bennett13"

you make some excellent points here jason. it has been 4 months since the election. where are the jobs? fuck it, we are stripping collective bargaining rights, defunding women's health, and focusing on anything BUT the obvious lack of jobs and how that is affecting the economy....

Wisconsin has a deficit of 3.6 billion!!! The budget repair bill, which requires state workers to contribute more for health care and pensions will help close the gap! THE ALTERNATIVES-LAYING OFF WORKERS OR RAISING TAXES! 146,000 people have already lost their jobs in the last 2 years in wisconsin! 60,000 have lost their homes! They don't think requiring state employees to pitch in and do what most in the private sector have done already is too much to ask! Its important to remember that those being asked to make modest contributions to their pension and health insurance will still have jobs! Pensions which are disappearing in the private sector, will still be there for them when they retire! Public employees will be paying more for health insurance but still FAR LESS than their average private sector counterparts and the quality of those benefits remain intact! Those 14 Senate Democrats continue to hold up democracy hiding out in Illinois instead of doing their duty as elected officials!!!!
Also, just because Tom Morello can play guitar does NOT give him the right to come into Wisconsin (without educating himself on ALL of the issues) and spread his verbal diahhrea of Raging Against The Machine!!!

I believe the teachers agreed to the pay-cut and paying into their insurance. They just don't want to give up their right to bargain collectively.

Prince Of Dorkness · March 2011

primussucks wrote:

Also, just because Tom Morello can play guitar does NOT give him the right to come into Wisconsin (without educating himself on ALL of the issues) and spread his verbal diahhrea of Raging Against The Machine!!!

Hm... and yet you clearly haven't educated yourself about any of the issues and are spreading your bullshit here.

primussucks · March 2011

Jasunmark wrote:

primussucks wrote:

Also, just because Tom Morello can play guitar does NOT give him the right to come into Wisconsin (without educating himself on ALL of the issues) and spread his verbal diahhrea of Raging Against The Machine!!!

Hm... and yet you clearly haven't educated yourself about any of the issues and are spreading your bullshit here.

Everything I posted are FACTS!!!

primussucks · March 2011

Jasunmark wrote:

primussucks wrote:

Wisconsin has a deficit of 3.6 billion!!!

Yeah.

And ya know why?

Wisconsin had a surplus just recently. They literally had more money than they needed.

And Scott Walker gave corporations some HUGE tax cuts intentionally to create that deficit. So he could have an excuse to bust the unions. So He could then sell union-free utilities to the Koch Brothers (who funded his campaign and are funding his current ad campaign, by the way). So they can lower everyone's wages, do away with benefits, do away with worker safety, do away with any protections at all AND raise the prices of water and power.. so they can make lots of money.

THAT is who you're supporting. Congratulations. You are helping shit on the American dream. Hope you're proud of yourself.

WOW! Where do you get your information from out there in California???????
Walker has only been governor for 4 months! This state has been in deficit for a few years! You live under a rock? Wow man, just wow!

primussucks · March 2011

Jasunmark wrote:

and by the way, primussucks, all this bullshit about "everyone pitching in" is tired. and it's a lie.

Because the ultra-rich and corporations aren't pitching in at all. Everyone isn't "pitching in" so much as "getting the shaft."

Funny... I make porn for a living and I fuck fewer people than you've helped fuck over.

Again.. hope you're proud of yourself.

So I guess your solution is to raise taxes and cut jobs??? Cause the facts are that is the altenative!

Smellyman · March 2011

Jon Stewart cuts through Tea Partiers bullshit and rhetoric.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-march-3-2011/crisis-in-the-dairyland---for-richer-and-poorer---teachers-and-wall-street

Prince Of Dorkness · March 2011

primussucks wrote:

So I guess your solution is to raise taxes and cut jobs??? Cause the facts are that is the altenative!

My solution is to do away with the tax-free status of banks, churches, the massive tax cuts on the billionaires, bring the manufacturing back to America, and allow us all to be prosperous again.

I guess you want us to be like.. what? India? With a tiny mega-rich class and a huge under class and virtually no middle class? Cuz that's where we're going.

Tea party vs. Unions

Comments

Categories